Retribution: Updated for 3.3 - Page 82

TheBacon · 10/26/09, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

ForteXorcist also has the option to display internal cooldowns for items (and it has a number of other very useful modules such as general logarithmic cooldown sliders and DoT trackers).

E: Download link

The problem I had with forte is it kinda gives information overload. Most important informatin can be gotten just from clcret and it is quite a bit easier to configure in my opinion, it was very hard to figure out filters for forte and it ended up showing a lot of useless information.

Antimonious · 10/28/09, 12:02 AM

Hey guys, I was just wondering if I should replace my Mirror of Truth with Victor's Call. I do mainly 10 mans and there is not many trinkets available to the 10 man Ret Pally raider. I normally use Rawr but it doesn't seem to list Victor's Call, that I can tell. Thanks in advance for any info.

Rurahk · 10/28/09, 12:26 AM

News from the front.

# Sacred Shield can now only occur every 30 sec. (Up from 6 sec)
# Lay on Hands can no longer be cast on yourself.
# Infusion of Light now also reduces the cooldown on the effect of Sacred Shield by 12/24 sec.

No more extra man pot, but we'll be saving mana since it's now pretty much a waste to use SS when you're ret (unless there's other changes that are planned for SS). Going from potentially 5 shields to one shield per cast seems like... to the ground baby.

What gets me is I can't think of a solid reason why these two abilities got nurfed. Is it just to make Infusion of Light more of a go-to talent? Perhaps it's to nerf some weird xx/43/xx FoL/SS prot builds? And making LoH non-self castable just because of the mana return seems like overkill. Perhaps some sort of potential abuse with AM + DivSac + self LoH (talented) but that's an awful lot of cooldowns to use just for 6 seconds of reduced physical damage. Then again, it's late so I'm probably missing something obvious.

Cuer · 10/28/09, 1:09 AM

Explanation of the changes so far, from Ghostcrawler:

As you can see, we are trying some different things with some paladin mechanics.

The Aura Mastery change (to 6 sec duration) is one we think is appropriate. If I had to guess, this one will stick.

We are trying some things with Sacred Shield to make it more of a Holy tool and less useful for Ret and Prot (without being totally irrelevant). I don't have a lot of faith that the implementation on the PTR is the one we'll go with for a couple of reasons, but our overall goal is to make Ret less tanky and the Holy tree feel like it's the right one to focus on for healing. I would expect a Sacred Shield change of some kind though.

I wouldn't worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point. I don't want to promise we won't change the spell for 3.3, but our intent was to revert the others only change before it went out to the PTR, which is why we didn't patch note it. We have already changed it back on our local builds.

The paladin class isn't just supposed to be for support anymore, but at the same time, the original intent for many paladin abilities was to help the group. Over time however they have contributed into making the paladin into a "one-man army," able to play offensively, defensively and heal without say the stance changing or shapeshifting or sometimes event talent specialization required of other classes. Many of the LK balance problems we've had with the class are because of that core issue.

With that said, we're just not sure a Lay on Hands change really accomplishes much from a balance perspective, while it feels bad to lose such an iconic ability. We just don't think the bang for the buck is there on this change, which is why we reverted it. But I'm not going to promise we won't touch it.

In fact, I'm not going to promise anything with this post.

Please don't dredge it up later to try and argue against any upcoming changes. I'm just trying to clear up some confusion.

Heck · 10/28/09, 1:57 AM

Please try and post 3.3 discussions in the 3.3 thread.

Maylander · 10/28/09, 6:07 PM

Just wanted to confirm that the two Death's Verdict trinkets actually stack. I have both right now, and I get the Strength from both trinkets when they both proc (i.e at the start of a fight).

Imapwnu · 10/29/09, 11:57 AM

Just to double check something:

The OP in this thread states the FCFS order(20% and below) should be Judgement > HoW, while the BiS 3.2 is HoW > Judgement - both of which are after 2p T9 and better. Not that it's that huge of a deal, but may create a hair of uncertainty for people who nitpick details too much such as myself.

PessimiStick · 10/29/09, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Zurm

The only place that you can do that currently is WoWMeterOnline.com, but unfortunately it's hosted in either Taiwan or China, and is notoriously slow. Plus, you have to upload your logs to their site as well.

WoL has this feature, both for overall, and Spec specific. The Spec version is undocumented though, so you have to type it out.

Overall (ToGC Jaraxxus): World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Ret Pally (ToGC Jaraxxus): World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Lunicks · 10/30/09, 9:24 AM

I'd like to add a macro which I'm pretty sure has been posted elsewhere, but is nevertheless a very useful one that I use for Exorcism.

AoW seems like it becomes more important in pve, but realistically nothing has changed. Exorcism still has a 15 second cooldown, and the chances that you will not see a crit on the pull (7.5 seconds in) while raid buffed are 1.6%, while the chances you won't see a crit in 15 seconds is 0.2% - therefore there is no reason to stack crit or worry about not being able to use it every 15s.

Even though the chances of not having AoW up when the time comes to use Exorcism are so slim you might never see it happen, starting a 1.5 second cast in the middle of combat is not a chance I am willing to take.

#showtooltip Exorcism
/startattack
/cast Exorcism
/stopcasting

In any event where AoW would not be up, this will prevent me from starting a cast and resetting the swing timer.

Exemplar · 10/30/09, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by Lunicks

I'd like to add a macro which I'm pretty sure has been posted elsewhere, but is nevertheless a very useful one that I use for Exorcism.

Even though the chances of not having AoW up when the time comes to use Exorcism are so slim you might never see it happen, starting a 1.5 second cast in the middle of combat is not a chance I am willing to take.

In any event where AoW would not be up, this will prevent me from starting a cast and resetting the swing timer.

Won't work, still resets swing timer. Intentionally to prevent us from using macros of this nature. You DO begin the cast, then instantly cancel it. That instant is all that is necessary for swing reset.

Run something like CLCret - it doesn't even suggest you use Exo if you don't have AoW procced. The only time I've not had Exo recommended is when I used an instant FoL.

Lunicks · 11/01/09, 1:36 AM

Thanks a lot for the correction and for clearing that up - I can't see why I'd think it wouldn't reset the swing timer.

Gamepro · 11/02/09, 12:09 AM

Just how important is the expertise cap for ret? I know it sits third in the stat priority (2nd after hit cap) and I'm desperately hanging onto [Steelbreaker's Embrace] for the expertise cap. But I'm considering replacing it with [Turalyon's Battleplate of Triumph] and be sitting way below the cap.

Neraya · 11/02/09, 3:56 AM

Both hit and expertise are important below the cap. Expertise still has some value above the "attack from behind" cap as you'll sometimes be hitting mobs from the front, hit doesn't have any value above cap.

But loosing out on other stats such as Str/Crit is also an important issue when valuating upgrades. As with all such questions: use Rawr.
It depends on your other gear as well (will the T9 activate your 2P or 4P bonus ?).

Glutton · 11/02/09, 4:36 AM

Originally Posted by Neraya

... hit doesn't have any value above cap.

That isn't correct. Hit provides additional, although significantly reduced DPS until you reach the spell hit cap.

• frmorrison · 11/02/09, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Gamepro

Just how important is the expertise cap for ret? I know it sits third in the stat priority (2nd after hit cap) and I'm desperately hanging onto [Steelbreaker's Embrace] for the expertise cap. But I'm considering replacing it with [Turalyon's Battleplate of Triumph] and be sitting way below the cap.

Even though that is a lot of expertise to lose, the tier set item is better. Sure you will get more dodged attacks, but the attack that do hit will hit harder. Plus you get closer the the tier bonuses (even though the 4 piece is weak, it is still good to get). Use Rawr to see how much dps you would gain.