Using my spreadsheet I have found the effective CD on DS to be 2.98 seconds with a .1 sec latency and assuming AA, Judge, CS, DS proc the reset. The highest dps rotation was Judge, DS, CS, <whatever> because <whatever> didn't get cast. This all assuming t10 2p obviously.

The dps difference of t10 2p was higher than any other set bonus, second was t10 4p and third was t9 2p.

The difference is 5-10 dps in Rawr and Rawr isn't 100% accurate (assumes boss doesn't move).

It's been kinda long time I read the BIS thread, so big apologies if it was already discussed and concluded...

It's been proved that both procs of different versions of Death's Verdict, heroic and normal, albeit the fact that they do have the same name proc, stack.

So, considering that they stack, why exactly is Darkmoon Card still best second trinket and not the normal version of Death's Verdict?

Because getting the 2 best physical damage dealer trinket isn't fair to your guild mates, so probably you will never get them.

Considering that the BiS set even includes leather, wich mind you has many BiS itens for druids and rogues and the purpose of this thread and specifically the all itens BiS build up is to achieve the highest possible setup for dps, I don't see a "not fair" reason being valid.

Then feel free to make your own BIS thread incorporating it. It would also be helpful if before asking questions you read the thread, where your question had been answered multiple times.

Thanks for all the hard work guys. LTRFTP

Sorry I missed the many posts in here about my question.

Death's Verdict (245 and 258 versions) has static AP AND a str/agi proc similar to Greatness (higher in both cases). This is why Dual Death's Verdict is ahead.

I'm seeing the same result. Any idea why it changed?

Also, you've somehow managed to have a mix of alliance and horde drops in your bis.

I don't care enough to check if one piece is Alliance or the Horde version now, however most of were correct at the beginning. The stats are correct, which is the important thing.

A good thing about ICC is they plan on having one set of gear (there still would be differences due to 1% hit from space goats) so that makes it less confusing.

Dwarf BiS atm: - 2shared - download BiS Dwarf.rar - 9880 DPS with SoV glyph. Take same setup for Human BiS, but swap out the boots with Greaves of 7th Legion, ends up at 9863 DPS.

I apologize if this is overly "newbish" but I have a question that I feel still pertains to this thread but not necessarily in the same level of expertise. I am in a guild only running ToC10/25, no grand crusader for me but that's fine...I can live without. I'm at the point where the only thing I can effectively spend Triumph emblems on is upgrading my T9 from 232 to 245 and I'm unsure as to which piece to leave out of the 4pc bonus or if I should even bother with the 4pc bonus in the first place and focus my gold/emblems/orbs on offset gear.

I have heard from many people that Titanium Razorplate is a better overall chest then the 245 T9 but then I see the T9 piece listed in the BiS list in this thread. Assuming the 4pc T9 is worth aiming for I'm just not sure which piece to leave out.

I'm considering leather and mail items but not any 258 gear for now. Rawr does list the T9 chest below the potential raw dps of the Razorplate but I'd like some opinions on this. I run with a decent amount of plate dps in ToC25 so my odds on drops are fairly low with our loot system which is why I've started considering crafted items.

Finally got my first trophy on tuesday and I'd like some input if possible as to which 2 or 4 pieces of T9 I should aim for (in 245 form) and which one can efficiently be replaced with a ToC drop or crafted item.

I do always try to maximize my DPS with the gear available to me but only raiding casually I'd rather "spread the love" when it comes to gear and sacrifice a little dps on a possible upgrade to maybe spend gold/emblems to benefit a lesser piece of gear.

Thanks for the time and patience dealing with my uneducated question(s).

- Jeff

You won't find a replacement for your shoulders at all save for another badge piece, but you lose out on the set bonus and the extra 4 strength from the red socket bonus on the T9, not to mention the downfall of the armor penetration in the budget. Also, the gloves only have one 245 replacement, which has armor penetration and again, you lose a socket bonus and a piece towards your set bonus.

For those reasons, I'd say those should be your first two trophy upgrades, and probably the helm afterwords. The legs and chest you take less of a hit on, and the Judgement Crown can easily stand in for your T9 helm until you've got another trophy.

Seems to make sense, the chest/legs/helm have other options and the gloves/shoulders are cheaper to pickup anyways. I'll probably go that route, according to Rawr I'll gain 32.11 dps from the shoulders and 32.14 from the gloves so either way I guess. :p

I'd say go for the 4 piece bonus with legs from twins. if you craft the chest you will probably got way beyond cap on expertise with the tier legs.

I think you'll find that's the 258 tier chest, not the 245.

I wanted to get some perspective from other rets regarding ToC weapons. We have had some horrible luck with drops, only getting 1 258 Dual Blade Butcher and 1 258 Grievance thus far. We have gotten a few Hellion Glaives and I finally got my hands on one this past week.

With my gear set...Rawr is basically telling me that the Glaive is only about 8 dps under the Butcher. I just wanted to see if this made much sense to anyone. If when the next Butcher drops, I probably would let it go to another melee if the dps differential is that small.

Something similar occurs with 245 Archon Glaive vs 245 Justicebringer (alliance ver. of the ones you mention). It is totally correct and its basically related to the how well agi/crit scales right now with our 2pc t9 bonus.
Should Dual Blade Butcher 258 drop for you guys again, I would personally pass it over to another dps.

On a side note, "HI! Im from Turalyon too!"

For me Hellion Glaive is actually coming ahead of Dual-Blade Butcher by 2dps, if i gem str/crit for the socket bonus. Glad I picked it up last night.

I have a 258 Justicebringer and with my current gear, Rawr is listing Archon Glaive as a couple DPS higher.
T9 2pc bonus is causing crit (and thus AGI) to get a somewhat inflated value. That and itemisation budgetting on leather is what's making a lot of leather items BiS atm.

The glaive is decent and, as in my case, possibly even the biggest DPS weapon in a specific gear set. If you're unlucky on the axe, it's a very good alternative.

If you have TOC on farm, getting some of those leather BIS items is nice, but be sure to not let those plate items get nuked (and don't nuke/vendor your plate when you 'upgrade' with leather) as you may end up needing them when you break the T9 bonus for T10 in ICC.

Right, once T9 2 piece gets dropped, leather agility gear drops in value a bit, but not much. 258 Glaive is only about 10 dps less in both BiS lists.