Yeah, that's me misreading what he posted as "changing it from the OP." You're just referring to the leftover RV/SoV ticks on the boss when he dies though, right?
Edit: Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but wouldn't that only affect the final HoW toss?
Yes, it would only affect a few spells, but those few spells that never finish dealing damage should be more than 10 dps.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Is it possible to equip with two Darkmoon Greatness cards (str and agil)? I'd imagine the proc wouldn't stack, but you would increase your proc rate and get an extra +90 agil.
Is it possible to equip with two Darkmoon Greatness cards (str and agil)? I'd imagine the proc wouldn't stack, but you would increase your proc rate and get an extra +90 agil.
It wouldn't increase your proc rate any if the ICDs are tied together. Each one would have identical chances of proccing and locking the other one out until the shared ICD was up and then both would have equal chance of proccing again.
Now it's going to be a question of ethics for a while (I borrowed our enh shaman's for a few mins), since it's probably intended and not a bug. Rawr shows the 245 version a good 125 dps above DMC, and almost 200 dps ahead of DMC for the 258 version.
I have what might be a silly request, but would it be possible to put together a list of "realistic" bis gear? I say realistic because the 258 tokens are extremely rare; even clearing HToC25 weekly, with 45+ attempts remaining, you would only see 4 per week (and likely only one will be a conq token, which is shared amongst 3 classes..). I suspect that most guilds will be finishing with less than 45 attempts for a good while, further reducing 258 tokens - so I'm wondering if it would be worth anyone's time to compile a list using random 258/245/239 hardmode gear and the 245 set items. More than likely the 4pc would be undesirable with such a set...
I have what might be a silly request, but would it be possible to put together a list of "realistic" bis gear? I say realistic because the 258 tokens are extremely rare; even clearing HToC25 weekly, with 45+ attempts remaining, you would only see 4 per week (and likely only one will be a conq token, which is shared amongst 3 classes..). I suspect that most guilds will be finishing with less than 45 attempts for a good while, further reducing 258 tokens - so I'm wondering if it would be worth anyone's time to compile a list using random 258/245/239 hardmode gear and the 245 set items. More than likely the 4pc would be undesirable with such a set...
I am convinced the Death's Choice stacks, maybe I will change the All Items lists only to reflect that.
To make a Heroic mode gear set without 258 set pieces, wouldn't you use the current Heroic lists but downgrade the 258 set pieces?
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
If you look at the DK BiS thread they have a nice breakdown of 5 different sets. One that's all gear possible including 10 & 25 herioc. Next is only 25 heroic or normal, next is 10 heroic but only 25 normal, next is 10 normal and 25 normal only, and last was 10 normal/heroic only. Basically 5 levels of progression for each spec etc. Now I think they have a special program for determining all those sets... making the legwork for Ret to do all that pretty extensive, but at least it's only 1 spec compared to the several DPS specs for DKs.
A couple of "realistic" sets I came up with for Alliance (you can find corresponding items for horde if applicable). These sets include all hard-mode items that aren't tied to tributes and no 258 tier tokens.
edit: both sets seem to be a little under cap on expertise, and the leather set is a bit under hit cap, but you would lose DPS if you tried to replace any of your gems with str/hit gems. Also, I made an error with the files and i checked the bloodlust option under buffs. After unchecking it, the values have been updated. The files are still with the old bloodlust value checked.
With the current situation that basically requires hard mode Anub to be cleared in order to obtain the heroic tier pieces. I was curious if we could form a separate best in slot list that includes the trophy/emblem version of the tier pieces.
I am curious about this because even in the top end guilds, Anub is far from easy and with him dropping a certain amount of tokens each week, it will be a long time if at all before everyone is able to obtain the heroic 4pc bonus. The current BiS lists basically include either the 2pc or 4pc bonuses, one for plate priority and hard modes, and the other for all items and hard modes.
I guess what I am trying to say is that most ret pallies will have their "normal" 4pc bonus long before they are able to get the heroic versions. With this in mind, I am curious if its even worth it to wear, and also what else would change with the other slots? For example, I have the 258 versions of the Legplates of Ascension and the Frostwolf Chestpiece. If I wear my 4pc which I also have, I cant wear the two heroic pieces. I am just trying to find a new bis list compiled with our normal 4pc or 2pc included versus the heroic versions of each.
have the 258 versions of the Legplates of Ascension and the Frostwolf Chestpiece. If I wear my 4pc which I also have, I cant wear the two heroic pieces. I am just trying to find a new bis list compiled with our normal 4pc or 2pc included versus the heroic versions of each.
The 4 piece bonus is weak (the 2 piece is even weaker until 3.2.2, then it is pretty awesome), so you would be better off using the 258 items. In your situation, using the BE BiS Plate list but swapping out the T9 Shoulder for the Frostwolf chest appears to be the best option.
There is no need to use any T9 Ret pieces pre-3.2.2, afterward you would want to though.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
The 4 piece bonus is weak (the 2 piece is even weaker until 3.2.2, then it is pretty awesome), so you would be better off using the 258 items. In your situation, using the BE BiS Plate list but swapping out the T9 Shoulder for the Frostwolf chest appears to be the best option.
There is no need to use any T9 Ret pieces pre-3.2.2, afterward you would want to though.
I know that the 4pc bonus is weak, however the BiS lists both have either 2pc or 4pc included. Obviously this is because they are the heroic versions, but what I am trying to figure out is what the BiS list is without the heroic tier pieces basically.
Because it is going to take a long time for anyone to get their 2 or 4pc heroic version, I think we should get a list made so there is something to go off of until it is more likely that people will be able to obtain the heroic tier pieces. For example, there are quite a few 239 pieces from Ulduar that can be worn over the normal Tier 9 stuff, if in fact it would generate a better overall list. The same goes for other heroic items that can be worn over normal tier pieces like the Chestplate of the Frozen Wolf or Legplates of Ascension.
With Anub being by far the most difficult hard mode boss, there will be alot more people with heroic items that can be worn over normal T9. After 3.2.2, I am planning on using the normal 2pc bonus, if for some reason we dont have Anub down yet. Of course if I have the heroic versions then I will be wearing them. With that in mind, I really think we should get a list up including 2pc T9 (normal), with other heroic items included.
I know that the 4pc bonus is weak, however the BiS lists both have either 2pc or 4pc included. Obviously this is because they are the heroic versions, but what I am trying to figure out is what the BiS list is without the heroic tier pieces basically.
Well I haven't actually run it in Rawr, but I can tell you that the 2pc t9 bonus is very good, and scales extremely well (especially with crit). Depending on your gear at the time, it could be worth anywhere from 200-300 dps... or potentially even higher. Then, you can figure that a typical 245-->258 jump will be worth about 50 dps for the same item. So in the end, I believe 2pc t9 (245) will be used in your expected set.
That being said, you guys need to keep in mind that a "Best in Slot" set is exactly that; if getting that gear is not realistic, it's YOUR job to compensate, not the thread author's. He's already doing a great service by creating plate-only sets.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
That being said, you guys need to keep in mind that a "Best in Slot" set is exactly that; if getting that gear is not realistic, it's YOUR job to compensate, not the thread author's. He's already doing a great service by creating plate-only sets.
I am not trying to get someone to do my work. I have my lists, however I was only trying to get something together for people who may not be as fortunate to be currently working on heroic Anub. I also wasnt directing it at the thread author. Anyone can do it and that includes myself.
There's way too many BiS lists you could potentially have...
Some people do only 10mans, with or without heroic version.
Some people will be going into the 25mans, with or without the heroic version. And some people doing 25's aren't going to do 10man (normal and/or heroic).
And it gets worse.
Alliance and horde have different set requirements (due to draenei 1% hit)
Heck, alliance itself can potentially have 3 different set requirements.
Human with sword/mace racial, Dwarf with mace racial and draenei with neither.
For 10 man human/dwarf you could even argument that you have no draenei in your raid.
There's just no way to make BiS lists for every possible combination.
Whoever made the DK lists had a different view on things, his BiS lists don't seem to take racials into account.
I agree with Zurm, the BiS lists should be just that, the very best there is. This is interesting to know so that if you do get to go in an instance dropping one of these (a PuG maybe) that you don't mistakenly pass over it.
Getting a BiS item is good, even if it's not on your own personal "realistic BiS" list, because it can most likely always just be used instead of whatever realistic item you had forseen in that slot.
And even people in the super top end guilds may not ever complete a BiS list, you're still subject to RNG and DKP/LootCouncil/Whateverlootsystem rules. RNG can be cruel to the extreme, In vanilla wow my guild did almost 18months of weekly MC runs. We NEVER saw rag's eye drop, we finally managed to get 1 pair of bindings completed (the main reason to continue doing MC so long, as well as for T2 pants), we also got choker of the firelord only once and T2 priest pants only twice. BiS lists are wishlists, a small few will complete that set, some will never get it because they don't get to the content dropping the items, and some will just curse and spit on RNG for weeks, until they don't care anymore because of new drops in the next tier raid. ;-)
Heck, alliance itself can potentially have 3 different set requirements.
Human with sword/mace racial, Dwarf with mace racial and draenei with neither.
Not required. Our BIS weapon right now is an axe (Justicebringer/DBB 258), and in Icecrown it will probably be Shadowmourne - also an axe. One set will therefore suffice for all Paladins, with a single recommended change for Dwarfs.
One BiS list will suffice for all horde, 1 for all alliance I think you meant.
I have my own lists as well, and have no problem editing basic RAWR settings.
I like the lists that we have now at least. Horde, Alliance, then the BiS for plate, hard mode leather, yada yada.
Also its very good for the new Ret's that are still learning RAWR and new to the forums and their class.
For your BIS blood elf plate priority wouldn't it be better to put a nightmare tear instead of 3x bold cardinal rubies .. for the +8 str bonus? For my Rawr when I turn off enforce gem requirements and I add a custom one for nightmare in blue socket, bold in red socket and inscribed in orange it shows it as being slightly better. This can also allow you use the different meta because you will have 1 blue (nightmare tear) in legs and 1 blue in chest.
For your BIS blood elf plate priority wouldn't it be better to put a nightmare tear instead of 3x bold cardinal rubies .. for the +8 str bonus? For my Rawr when I turn off enforce gem requirements and I add a custom one for nightmare in blue socket, bold in red socket and inscribed in orange it shows it as being slightly better. This can also allow you use the different meta because you will have 1 blue (nightmare tear) in legs and 1 blue in chest.
No, it isn't better. I recall the sets use the Nightmare in the Pants slot (for 6 strength bonus), and using RED meta.
However, using a second blue gem (like Sovereign) to get an 8 strength bonus and using the 21 Crit meta is maybe 10 dps less than the better setup.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Not required. Our BIS weapon right now is an axe (Justicebringer/DBB 258), and in Icecrown it will probably be Shadowmourne - also an axe. One set will therefore suffice for all Paladins, with a single recommended change for Dwarfs.
BiS Dwarf for 3.2.2 will be my setup with the Catastrophe mace, since ArPen drops in value the JB set will drop below the mace set by like 12dps for the mighty dwarves.
Is the current version of Rawr (2.2.17) taking the 12% armor pen nerf into account? Or are you gonna release a new version along with 3.2.2 launch that does this?
Just wondering as I currently run with quite some ArPen that I might need to swap out tomorrow, depending on what rawrs calcs are based on.
Is the current version of Rawr (2.2.17) taking the 12% armor pen nerf into account? Or are you gonna release a new version along with 3.2.2 launch that does this?
Just wondering as I currently run with quite some ArPen that I might need to swap out tomorrow, depending on what rawrs calcs are based on.
You can expect the RedCap value for ArP to drop down to the level of Haste at 67 (or was it 68?). In general, unless you are picking pieces exclusively for ArP, it should not matter much.
You can expect the RedCap value for ArP to drop down to the level of Haste at 67 (or was it 68?). In general, unless you are picking pieces exclusively for ArP, it should not matter much.
Oh what I was confused about, is wether the value HAS been dropped or is going to drop?
Or more accurately; Is Rawr version 2.2.17 using the nerfed values of armor pen or the current ones in its calculations?
09/15/09, 2:25 PM
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