Redcape

I really don't think this is the case. If it were only proccing off autoattack or only off of strikes I would agree that you might well see some harmonic cases but a 1.7 delay on a strike, 1.53 delay on a cast and a 2.67 delay on a autoattack plus occasional random .1 delays from everything being on cooldown simply do not lend themselves to any kind of harmonic. Unless you are talking about really enormous timeframes these cooldowns simply aren't likely to create a repeating pattern. (in which case it won't affect the results in any noticeable way).

 

• frmorrison

I have been updating the OP, but I guess I should post them in the last post as well for people that don't check the OP.

The RV change is great, while not all PvPers will get RV, some will be able to get it now (Ret needs some PvP love, no homo).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Rej

A fair number will, particularly in 2v2 and certain 3v3 comps. There is considerably less target-switching or danger of putting RV on a CC target in 2v2, and the DoT doesn't last too long in the first place. Still, this will aid with those moments when Repenting the burn target is necessitated (example: mage blinks away, warrior/druid charges off).

 

Baklava09

I'm not sure if this was already posted since it is a few days old but here is the SimCraft from the PTR.

SampleOutputPTR - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code

I feel like something is off with the retribution paladin. Please observe these simcrafts below from the Sample Output.

SampleOutputT9 - 9826 dps
SampleOutputPTR - 9826 dps

The PTR sample uses BiS tier 9 but with tier 10 bonuses. According to SimCraft we won't see any dps increase from the bonuses alone. This puts us at the 2nd to last dps. Our 2 piece and 4 piece are pretty substantial dps improvements so I don't know if the simcraft has them in correctly or I'm missing something. Anyways just wanted to share here to see your thoughts.

 

• frmorrison

It seems you answered your own question. Even if the Tier 10 bonuses were modeled in simulationcraft, the gear set is using Tier 9 gear, so the 3.3 set bonuses don't do anything. Since the only Ret changes were in utility, the dps should be the same on both.

I wouldn't worry about being low on dps, Redcape's spreadsheet shows Tier 10 bonuses giving a lot of dps (I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 piece nerfed, especially when PvPers see the fun of getting chain divine storms).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

dedmonwakeen

Your spider-sense was accurate....... A new release of SimC is imminent. I'll update the wiki, too, but that could take an additional 24hrs if my servers are already loaded.

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft

 

Eosrain

Another consideration against DiSac is the possibility that Blizzard coded the ability to break once causing 20% of your health percentage in damage, regardless of whether or not said damage was prevented. If that is indeed the case (and with the other nerfs to overall utility in 3.3 coming, I suspect it will be) then DiSac will most likely be inferior regardless.

Aura Mastery will, at the very least, be invaluable in maximizing your raid's survivability for the Arthas encounter.

 

Glutton

So far there hasn't been a 3.3 PTR encounter where the majority of unavoidable raid burst damage is nature or physical. AM will prove useful in Sindragosa and Festergut.

 

sacorac

I assume that in this scenario, we are assuming that the current bug associated with running different Auras are fixed, and you don't risk losing 3% raid dps and 3% haste by running a different Aura.

 

Eosrain

While I won't disagree with you, I am curious as to the exact mechanics of the DiSac changes. Is there any tested data available to show whether the ability breaks even if the damage is prevented? According to my understanding of certain GC posts I've read, the ability to Bubble through DiSac was actually unintended and I'm wondering if it will be fixed for 3.3. If not, it could still be a valuable cooldown if you find yourself in a group with a tank.

 

Brekkie

tank cooldowns are a dime a dozen.
Raid cooldowns are not.

 

• frmorrison

Correct, a Ret should not ever spec DiSac in 3.3 (except for PvP), due to the superiority of either getting AM or having more utility by getting nearly the entire Ret tree.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Cangiz

The new simcraft ptr build is up:
SampleOutputPTR - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code

This one models our T10 bonus's, and it seems we have gained almost 700 DPS just from changing our bonuses to T10. It seems that they are worthy of being called our final tier, however I feel our DPS seems a little high in comparison to the pures.

Anyways is our FCFS rotation going to be Judge > DS > CS with 4 pieces t10 or will DS actually be prioritized over Judgement due to the loss of 2 PC T9?

 

Glutton

We're only the 6th highest class in that link, ahead of other hybrids such as Priests, Shamans, and Warriors. Although I am impressed that difference in single target DPS at the top end is fairly marginal.

 

• frmorrison

I picked Judge>DS because I was worried about mana (due to fewer Judgements if you did DS>CS>Judge, and people will have 2piece T9 for a few weeks into 3.3) and uptime of Replenishment. Once people drop Tier 9, the mana issue will have to be reevaluated.

On a general note, It is neat that the dps gap among classes in 3.2 isn't as bad in 3.3.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Glutton

Has anyone had an opportunity to pick up Bryntroll (the new ilvl 264 2H) or seen a report on its proc mechanic? I'd imagine if the proc scales with spellpower (as similar on hit lifesteal procs have) then Retribution would reap a huge benefit.

 

Malleus

The problem with Bryntroll is that it has nothing going for it except its proc and its top end damage. Citadel Enforcer's Claymore gives 1.66% crit, over 3% hit and has 29 Strength over Bryntroll; Ramaladni's Axe of Culling has more than 40 additional Strength and two-thirds of our required expertise. Even Justicebringer-245 has more Strength and stats. That proc is going to have to go off often and for a hell of a lot before Bryntroll is worth more than an Abyss Crystal.

 

• frmorrison

Easy, Bryntroll is better than the 245 Axe at least. It may have fewer stats, but top end damage is more important. Just because it is the weakest 2H weapon in 25 ICC doesn't mean it is an Abyss crystal (also, think of tanks that want 2H weapons).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Malleus

The DK tanks are going to prefer Ramaladni's Axe for the huge expertise and Stamina it gives.

In terms of Ret thinking, I agree that Bryntroll will surely beat Justicebringer-245 unless it can only proc once per minute, but I'm pretty sure it's a flat downgrade on the heroic version. JB-258 is rated at 1750 DPS in Rawr. Bryntroll was rated at 1470 DPS without the proc; that leaves the proc needing to be worth 280 DPS to match JB-258. Without scaling that's 7.5ppm excluding crits, so any ICD over 10 seconds will probably kill it. (If it scales with AP, it'll surely have a longer ICD than that; Blizzard will not want to see Warriors dual wielding these in PVP and healing/leeching for 40k or more per minute.)

I also think the Claymore will be closer to Bryntroll than the lower top end would suggest. You can eke out around 4% extra crit from it, and it'll be seen early enough that we'll still be in 2pc T9 when we get it.

 

Glutton

Similar weapons have had 100% scaling with spellpower, so we'll have to see how well it does fully raid buffed. A DK in my guild picked it up but hasn't had an opportunity to test the proc rate or determine the proc mechanic.

(Proc is named Drain Life)

 

Anauel

Although the screenshot looks promising, do you have any idea how much time had he been DPS'ing? I'm thinking 10% is really, really high, though I'm unfamiliar with general DK damage distribution.

Edit: I'm assuming that was a very small test. 430k damage, approximately, just from what I could see (and assuming 21k from that extra bar I'm not seeing). At 5k dps that'd be 86 seconds which isn't significant.

 

jgRnt

But if the leech have procced for 43k within those 86 seconds, it ought to have a decent, if any, internal cooldown, assuming it proccs for about 2.7k every time?

 

• Zurm

That puts the proc at 500 dps on a training dummy for a DK. Depending on how it scales with our talents/spellpower and various raid buffs, that puts this weapon far above a typical stat stick.

Again though, I'm sure most of you know my utter revulsion at using training dummies, fraught with bugs and inconsistencies as they are. Would be nice to see some in-raid numbers from a ret pally on PTR.

 

Exemplar

I'd prefer a lengthy (non-training dummy) test with 0 spellpower (no Sheathe of Light talent, probably no talents at all), then a known non-varying (no AP->Spellpower procs) spellpower (no talent healing gear?). Both to determine proc rate (likely 5-10% rate), whether it scales with spellpower, and if so by how much.

We need both a proc rate and how its proc might scale to determine its true effectiveness.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

 

• frmorrison

That damage is close to normal for a 3.3 Unholy DK (however it doesn't show Ghoul damage, which is slightly above Death Coil). If that parse was 86 seconds, he got around 16 procs which appears the weapon proc designer forget to put an ICD on it (trinkets with damage procs like DMC: Death have a 45s ICD). DMC: Death proc was around 2% of my DK's damage when I had one.

It would be nice to see a better log (at least 6 minutes, the more the better) once there is an ICD on the proc. I am pretty sure it will have some cooldown in the final version.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.