>.< The answer to this is 2 posts above yours. see post #12

I am posting here to update my model for 2p t10 as well as to try to corral the modelling discussion surrounding haste into a separate thread. My idea is to keep the haste and t10 modelling topics out of the 3.3 thread since most people reading that really don't have a lot of reason to worry about the backends of our various simulators.

That said I have changed my simulation somewhat. The style is still similar in that it has a number of states and simply cycles through them proccing the 2t10 on preset values but the values are different.

I have set it up so that it procs a 2t10 proc on 1,2,4,5,8,9,13,15 of 20 states. These numbers were chosen to best model the way procs would actually fit if randomly produced. Also by going up to 20 states instead of 10 I decrease the chance that some kind of harmonic state can come up dramatically due to the cycle covering 50-60 seconds of combat and roughly 35 button presses. It seems exceedingly unlikely that any kind of repetitive state would come out of that, particularly because so few fights actually have multiminute burn phases without movement, dps swaps, etc. which would destroy any harmonic state. Below I will list the chances of each number of attacks proccing 2t10 in theory and from the sheet.

Note: There will be only 4 chances to proc unless under Heroism due to DS coming back up of its own accord.

Chance proc occurs starting on any random #

First proc opportunity:
in theory: 40%
in my sim: 8/20 = 40%

Second proc opportunity:
in theory: 24%
in my sim: 5/20 = 25%

Third proc opportunity:
in theory: 14.4%
in my sim: 3/20 = 15%

Fourth proc opportunity:
in theory: 8.64%
in my sim: 2/20 = 10%

Chance proc occurs starting directly after a proc occurred.

First proc opportunity:
in theory: 40%
in my sim: 3/8 = 37.5%

Second proc opportunity:
in theory: 24%
in my sim: 2/8 = 25%

Third proc opportunity:
in theory: 14.4%
in my sim: 1/8 = 12.5%

Fourth proc opportunity:
in theory: 8.64%
in my sim: 1/8 = 12.5%

The chances for these various events are not perfectly modelled in the sim but they are extremely close, certainly close enough to get fairly good data.

Now onto Haste:

I did some work with adding in substantial amounts of haste to test its effect on dps and found that when incorporating haste benefits to spell GCD and autoattack (2t10 proc) speed things get very ugly. When I used model times of 300 seconds I found haste benefits to be all over the map, running from negative benefit sometimes to as high as 34% dps conversion strictly from rotation benefits.

Once I changed the fight length up to 3000 seconds however things began to smooth out considerably. I was able to fairly reliably find a 10% dps return from haste based on rotation, which means you can reasonably change haste from noticeably below Agility to equal to Agility and just *barely* behind crit for value. My current DPS stat returns using this new data:

Weapon Speed 42619
Weapon DPS 632

Hit rating 240
Strength 212
Exp rating 153
Crit rating 117
Agility 113
Haste 103+10=113
Armor Pen 88
AP 84

SP 27

This certainly means that our t10 stat allocation is pretty much perfect, giving us an option of hit or expertise and otherwise stacking our best stats in nearly ideal amounts.

Just for reference:

What Redcape's extended modeling has discovered regarding haste (unsurprisingly) more or less matches what my spreadsheet has generated regarding haste. Short-term modeling is all over the map (single GCD clash "dropping DPS" to single additional auto-attack creating huge boost), while longer term modeling smooths out these issues.

The reduction on spell GCD does cause more improvement from Haste than originally thought - it's very close to Crit in effectiveness.

2 piece T9 increases the value of Crit (more crits create more RV, which can also crit) compared to Haste.
2 piece T10 increases the value of Haste (more/faster auto-attacks are more/faster chances to reset DS) slightly above Crit.

Overall regardless of set bonuses it's inadvisable to change gearing. Str is still number one, of course, and Crit should follow after. Haste's superiority to ArmPen is simply greater than originally thought.

TLDR: independent spreadsheet calcs agree with Redcape. 9 out of 10 Dentists also agree.

The tiny abomination in a jar seems to significantly increase the value of haste for a ret paladin when equipped. Are there currently any estimates to what its dps value is at that point?

I intend to provide modelling for bryntroll and TAIAJ as well as the engineering glove enchant in my next release. However, due to the current uncertainty of mechanics and the way blizzard is messing with procs I don't intend to release a new version right yet. Once we have the mechanics nailed down I will build models and include them in my sheet.

Hey Redcape,

i found a bug with the spreadsheet, though its simple enough to fix.

currently you have the glyphs sligtly bugged
(1+IF('Talents, Buffs, Enchants'!K7="Yes", 20, 0)

the values in the box are 20 and 0, not yes and no, so either answer returns a 0 modifier.

Edit:

i confirmed it was the same problem with SoV, changing the Data validation range to YES NO choices adjusts the dps properly currently everyones dps will be undervalued as they do not have either turned on.



And one question, the model shows my clash rotation to have more dps with DS before CS even though i dont have 2pt10 any thoughts on the accuracy?

sorry i keep editing things. but hit seems to be slightly bugged too, its currently running off of the alt gear hit rating not primary gear hit rating, so adding or removing hit on Main Gear has 0 effect. (melee is capped at 99.36 too, not sure if this is intentional)

(after more looking this is just the gear page display btw anyways ill stop posting now.)

That's exactly what i did, i pressed the use default glyph button. I thought it was working last night, and it appears it was.

I did re-check, and apparently the problem is with Tab:Main cells B15 and B21, not the actual DPS calculations. Those 2 cells seem to pull from the Alt Gearset hit rating.


As for rotations, i swapped to 3000 seconds and it's showing Judgement, DS, CS, Consecration, HoW, Exorcism as my ideal rotation at 7927 dps. My next best rotation is HoW, Judgement DS, CS, Cons, Exo at 7923. That said I trust your spreadsheet, but it seems counter-intuitive to have HoW so low, do you have any thoughts?


Here is a copy paste of my gears Stats, I'm not sure copy and paste will work very well, but just in case i will include it.

140 107 148 86 107 87 139 86 0 82 0 57 190 148
88 76 0
95 67 96 50 67 60 90 38 57 52 36 84 0
59 0 59 49 0 0 57 0 48
68 0 80 74 0 28
0 59 47 0 0 83
0 123 96 0 220
50 0 0 0 51 91
3.5
267.3
Relentless Str Str - Str/Crit Str Str Str/Crit - Str - - - - Str
Str/Sta - Str - - - Str - - - - - - - Str
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
8 Crit 4 Str - - 4 Str - - 4 Str - - - - - - -

Okay, so here is the solution:

All of the numbers on the Main page reflect the Alternate gearset. Whether or not they should reflect the Main or Alternate gearset is certainly a good question, but since it is consistent it seems ok to me. I figured having it show the stats you are testing is more useful than the stats you are assumed to have normally was the way to go.

If that is confusing or you think it should be otherwise, let me know, but this is a 'feature' not a bug.

Any time you include 2pt10 in your rotation it seems that the choices you make are almost irrelevant. The only consistent thing I noticed was that Judgement needs to be early to get the highest damage and Judgement first was universally the best. The only reason you would see HoW coming ahead of it is that HoW is used for a fairly small part of the fight so its location in the rotation is going to be a lot more random than the other abilities. If you are curious how much HoW actually hits for when seals, RV, etc. are counted in look at the Ability Use Information page. You can see that HoW is actually one of our lower damage abilities at high gear levels, which is why it generally ends up low in priority.

Remember, HoW was huge at ilvl 200, but it does not scale at all with ArPen, Haste or weapon damage and scales TERRIBLY with crit. It also scales weakly with str/AP due to having weak coefficients and high base damage. We actually get very little from the Execute phase now because our GCDs are so much more full and HoW is no longer a heavy hitter. It ends up right in the pack with Consecrate/Exorcism (which have drastically shorter GCDs, so are more effective) and CS while DS and Judgement are the big hitters. When you are completely jammed for GCDs the abilities that hit hardest and have the lowest effective cast times are going to shine.

On 4.1 I'm not able to change my rotation after changing my latency. It gives me an error (error 13 i think) and the spreadsheet becomes unusable after that.
I'm using excel 2007, windows vista business.
Also, if I try to set the latency manually it says I can't, cause the author did not allow for manual overrides.

Got it, it was because I use ',' as decimal separator and your possible latency choices used '.' After changing my settings on Excel it worked perfectly.