And the glove slot? Fleshrending Gautlents or the tier gloves?

I am curious actually - are you listing TAiaJ pre or post change/nerf/fix (w/e you want to call it) as BiS? Or is there some sort of modelling that you're using to anticipate what the trinket is supposed to be when properly fixed?

Akik (a EU player) uploaded his log this morning which showed the trinket worked as I modeled it on the OP (I listed every setting you have to edit). Perhaps the EU was behind any changes. I noted my Berserking uptime was about the same today as it was a few days ago, so I don't believe there are further changes.

If someone shows a log result other than what Akik uploaded, then I will change the BiS as necessary. For the information I have been presented with, both versions are BiS even if you didn't need the hit rating to reach 263.

In your All Items from Heroic Modes-Set, you're now giving up the 4pc t10 bonus (leather shoulders/plate hands) although it provides additional 350 dps. Is this correct?

For the Normal BiS, It's better to enchant Greater Assault on boots.

According to blue posts, there will be a new Strength Ring added in the next minor content patch (now scheduled for the 26th Jan) as an Ashen Verdict reputation reward.

It's pretty clear Tiny Abom was nerfed -- and hard. I doubt it's anything better than terrible for rets unless they somehow removed just poison procs (making it fairly awful for rogues) but left in all the other business for rets. At this point, I don't see how anyone would consider it seriously for ret paladin-ing.

Awesome !


This reminds me that it might be worthwhile to add an item to the FAQ that the 'all items' list is very likely going to be invalid when the pre-cataclysm patch (4.0) gets installed, changing the combat system.
It's still worthwhile to have this all items list, but if 4.0(?) gets installed weeks before the release of cataclysm (as it has been for TBC and wotlk) you could find yourself with very shoddy ret gear for those last few weeks and for starting the levelling to 85.

Having the Str items in your bags/bank would seem advisable. Even if you have non plate/str BiS items, don't let those plate/str bis items turned into shards. Yes, it's months away still, but droprates can work against you ;-)

What are you basing this off of? My log from last night very clearly shows taij doing the expected amount (3.1-3.9% total damage). Exemplar has already done the math that shows that even IF seals were unable to proc motes of anger, it would still beat out DC258 and anything else out there. It also scales better for rets compared to rogues due to weapon damage increases and no OH penalties.

About the AV str ring, I really really hope that it isn't str/crit/expertise. Our gear is already fairly saturated with exp, we don't need another 7-8 tacked on there. Then again, I'm not so sure we want hit now either, with abom covering over 25% of our hit needs...

Ashen with hit is probably ideal when all top tier loot is considered. There isn't a crit/haste/STR or crit/haste/ap/AGI 277 ring out there, but there are viable non hit options in the other slots.

Knowing Blizzard the AV STR ring will be crit/arp (ugh).

Well I was basing this off of the fact that it's not really proc-ing from anything that isn't an attack anymore (e.g. seals and poisons) that your mote accumulation rate would suck and therefore it would contribute nearly nothing to damage done. From the little I can understand of your log, it's obviously doing the amount of damage you claim in the link, so the question is what is proc-ing it.

It seems like your log fragment has 43 procs coming off of on the order of 300 attacks. That's a 100% proc rate so clearly something is not kosher there. But then, you are hitting multiple targets with Command, which I'm sure is what's screwing up the results and causing the "apparent" proc to be much higher.

I'm not the expert on how to test this, but the test is not Deathwhisper -- not when so far the bosses don't involve killing adds and the boss at the same time on the "push' fights -- it involves single targeting.

I did read the linked thread you mentioned and the vast vast majority of the testing occurs from before the changes were put in place so they tell us very little. That said, you are getting procs off of "non attacks" (things that occur as a result of your attacks) and rogues are not getting procs off poisons. It's hard to believe this is intended either. Basically the original incarnation of the trinket was clearly overpowered for both rogues and rets and currently it's terrible for rogues and maybe still very good for rets -- though Exemplar's math actually suggests heroic DV/DC is better than the 264 version in the aftermath of the changes (changes which Bornakk's post notwithstanding obviously did occur).

Anyway, I'm quite sure I mis-spoke and will leave it at that, except to say the thing is a moving target. And if it moves so that you can't double and triple dip on attacks, it will indeed be terrible. Which is what has already happened for rogues.