Retribution BiS Lists for 3.3 - Page 12

Glutton · 01/15/10, 4:40 PM

Deathwhisper is more difficult to analyze, but there are other fights in the log. For example:

I'm using the same weights as from the pre-poison nerf akik log.

I do agree that the trinket is on the same inevitable nerf path as Bryntroll. Although it will take a bit longer given that not everyone understands seals. 3% Manifest Anger seems a bit more innocuous than 6.3% from Manifest Anger + Manifest Anger seal procs.

Elamahpla · 01/15/10, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

DKs and Warriors rather have Str/Arp than Str/haste like Ret, so they may cater to the majority. Since until 4.0 Agility/AP gear is usually better than the equivalent Str/hit, I expect the current ring to stay BiS.

I'd have to agree with this, it'll either be the STR/ArP ring that we would loathe, or possibly crit/exp. ring. I'd lean more towards what frmorrison stated here, and that they'll cater to the bulk of STR users.

Edit: Though, one thing does bother me, if Blizz. is adding a STR ring, why not add a STR proc?

• frmorrison · 01/15/10, 9:11 PM

Originally Posted by Elamahpla

Edit: Though, one thing does bother me, if Blizz. is adding a STR ring, why not add a STR proc?

If that happened, that would mess up all those lists! I think they are lazy and will use the code from current ring.

Anyway, I updated the All Items lists with better items and messed with the FCFS priority to Judge>CS>DS shows more dps, fixed the boots enchant (they were hit capped), and changed cloak enchant to Greater Haste. Once you get a TAJ and/or break Tier 9, the haste enchant is the best.

Rawr doesn't model TAJ well, so I bumped it to 80% chance to proc.

Critscream · 01/18/10, 7:14 AM

When you say CS > DS, are you talking about for 2pc t9 (ilvl 245) and 2pc t10 or just straight out 4pc t10? My rawr (latest version) is still saying max dps rotation is Judge > DS > CS > HoW > Cons > Exo with 2pc t9 / 2pc t10.

Oint · 01/18/10, 11:59 AM

I've been going off of the Normal 25 only list, and I'm wondering if all of these are also better than anything a player could obtain in 10 IC hardmodes? OR, does that list already factor 10 IC Hardmodes into it's ilvl264 gear build?

I've used Rawr some but I am far from fully understanding it's proper functions, are there items that are very close together that would say be a potentially easier time obtaining a slightly 'weaker' item with minimal impact on the dps?

Maybe an example such as the Fleshrending Gauntlets and the Tier Gauntlets?

• frmorrison · 01/18/10, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Critscream

When you say CS > DS, are you talking about for 2pc t9 (ilvl 245) and 2pc t10 or just straight out 4pc t10? My rawr (latest version) is still saying max dps rotation is Judge > DS > CS > HoW > Cons > Exo with 2pc t9 / 2pc t10.

My Rawr and Exemplar's spreadsheet say CS > DS wins by between 5-20 dps with any gear set. The difference is minimal, except for larger mana use with DS>CS.

Originally Posted by Oint

I've been going off of the Normal 25 only list, and I'm wondering if all of these are also better than anything a player could obtain in 10 IC hardmodes? OR, does that list already factor 10 IC Hardmodes into it's ilvl264 gear build?

I've used Rawr some but I am far from fully understanding it's proper functions, are there items that are very close together that would say be a potentially easier time obtaining a slightly 'weaker' item with minimal impact on the dps?

Maybe an example such as the Fleshrending Gauntlets and the Tier Gauntlets?

Normal 25 only uses normal mode gear, so that would be 251 ICC10 gear it has to beat. A few slots could be upgraded with ICC10 Heroic items, but you will have to find that out on your own. Certainly there are a few choices that are a few dps lower, there is nothing wrong with doing that.

Turanduban · 01/18/10, 4:46 PM

Do ppl that have JC/BS as primary professions are actually intending to change BS to Engineering and if so, at what point of gear lvl would you consider it.

Glutton · 01/18/10, 4:55 PM

Originally Posted by Turanduban

Do ppl that have JC/BS as primary professions are actually intending to change BS to Engineering and if so, at what point of gear lvl would you consider it.

I wouldn't suggest that anyone consider switching until we can evaluate the fallout of any future Tiny Abomination in a Jar nerf. As it stands the same proc mechanics that Blizzard felt were unintended for Bryntroll are present with this trinket.

Kinmaul · 01/18/10, 5:10 PM

Originally Posted by Turanduban

Do ppl that have JC/BS as primary professions are actually intending to change BS to Engineering and if so, at what point of gear lvl would you consider it.

According to Glutton the reason that Engi overtakes BS is because of the value haste gains from to the current state of TaJ. The badge trinket surpasses H: DC for the same reasons leaving you with a BiS trinket combo of H:TaJ/badge trinket.

The only danger with swapping from Engi to BS is that right now everyone here (Blizzard may or may not) knows TaJ is putting out A LOT of damage, and is probably going to be changed at some point. If gold/time is not an issue then you would make the swap as soon as you pick up TaJ. However if you are not rich I would wait a bit and see what Blizzard decides to do with the trinket. It went from extremely overpowered to just decent for rogues overnight and the same thing could easily happen to us.

Personally I'll swap my gearing around to get the most out of TaJ, but I'm not dropping BC for Engi until Blizzard makes it's first balance pass on the trinket.

Edit:
Glutton swooped in and posted while I was writing this.

Josefar · 01/18/10, 10:56 PM

Shouldn't Deathbringers Will scale well with Tiny Abomination in a Jar?

Both the crit/haste should increase amount of generated motes right?

• frmorrison · 01/18/10, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Josefar

Shouldn't Deathbringers Will scale well with Tiny Abomination in a Jar?

Both the crit/haste should increase amount of generated motes right?

It would do that, but not enough to use 277 Deathbringer's Will over 258 Death's Choice or the War token from badges.

Critscream · 01/19/10, 6:17 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

My Rawr and Exemplar's spreadsheet say CS > DS wins by between 5-20 dps with any gear set. The difference is minimal, except for larger mana use with DS>CS.

Which version of Rawr are u using dude? Ever since Rawr v 2.3.5, my highest possible dps rotation has been Judge > DS > CS > HoW > Cons > Exo ?? I'm using 2.3.6 atm and i tried setting the rotation as the same except CS > DS and it resulted in a 84 dps loss...

Sorry, forgot to add using 2pc t9.245 and 2pc t10

Exemplar · 01/19/10, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by Critscream

Which version of Rawr are u using dude? Ever since Rawr v 2.3.5, my highest possible dps rotation has been Judge > DS > CS > HoW > Cons > Exo ?? I'm using 2.3.6 atm and i tried setting the rotation as the same except CS > DS and it resulted in a 84 dps loss...

CS > DS or DS > CS seems dependent on gear, buffs, and possibly profession. Mostly gear. So for frmorrison's gear (and mine, for that matter) CS > DS. If for you DS > CS, great, roll with it.

Normally the difference will be extremely small, as previously noted - 5 to 20 DPS.

Note to anyone intending to use my spreadsheet for a BiS list - I strongly recommend you increase fight length to the maximum (600 seconds, 10 minutes) to minimize the spikiness of haste (that 1 extra haste which grants 1 more attack in the fight which is a huge spike). Also heavily leverage the Analyze Items routine after your BiS is assembled - it breaks the rules and increases fight length to an hour for haste comparisons, to reduce this even further. Finally, the auto-gem (used by the Analyze Items) is fairly dumb. It will never be able to gem for socket bonuses unless vast tracts of the spreadsheet are re-written. You should easily be able to juice out a few more DPS by resocketing once you have a set listed.

Prentice · 01/19/10, 11:01 AM

Delay and Wait are set to 0.25 seconds to simulate lag and key press lag (SnowfallKeyPress or a similar mod or a G15 keyboard will help with these delays).

I was talking to some of my guildies last week about Snowfall and heard reports that people using that addon were getting their accounts suspended because of the mechanics of that addon. Evidently, the press/release functionality of that addon is performing two actions for a single user input and that violates ToS. Anyone else hear anything about this?

This question doesn't necessarily fit in the BiS thread but I ask because the use of the addon was referenced in the OP.

Thoradin · 01/19/10, 12:39 PM

In case anyone was wondering, TAJ currently accounts for anywhere between 3.5 - 4.2% of my DPS. This is more than Exorcism and Hammer of Wrath combined. Do you guys think this is OP at the moment? Or is it just super duper sexy?