the logic makes sense, but TK is actually right, i will edit the post and put whispering fanged skull in DC place as soon as rawr fix its proc. if someone can program it an wish do share the information, would be nice.

@frmorrison: the fact the weapon is the second best alone does not mean its not the best in a very well prepared gear.

I added it in manually and it says its the best 264 even with the 15% proc rate bryntroll.

than again, i did not say cryp is better than bryntoll in a 1x1, but it can be, depended on the gear you have or want to have. This assuming the numbers we have at this moment in rawr.

Found a Normal Plate set with 10785 dps, not sure why you have might of blight or the might of the ocean as so highly rated for me on rawr they are fairly low.

Head Sanctified Lightsworn Helmet
Neck Ahn'kahar Onyx Neckguard
Shoulders Sanctified Lightsworn Shoulderplates
Chest Sanctified Lightsworn Battleplate
Waist Coldwraith Links
Legs Sanctified Lightsworn Legplates
Feet Blood-Soaked Saronite Stompers
Wrist Polar Bear Claw Bracers
Hands Fleshrending Gauntlets
Finger1 Seal of Many Mouths
Finger2 Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance
Trinket1 Death's Verdict
Trinket2 Whispering Fanged Skull
Back Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak
MainHand Shadow's Edge
Ranged Libram of Valiance

But the point of a BiS list isn't to take into account what gear you have at the moment, but what collected set of gear pieces would bring out the most dps in an optimal situation and the situation is modelled for a single target boss fight, which most bosses, in essence, are.

I posted the values I edited in for the Skull and other items in the OP when I first posted it.

The point of this thread is to create the very best set of gear with exceptions (heroic versus normal) for ICC25. Create a better set with the Crypt weapon and if I verify it with my Rawr (which has all the item procs manually added to it) I would change my list.
With this in mind and since Rawr doesn't do model boss encounters very well, I had to pick a few items that are slightly ranked lower on single target (expertise items) but are by far the best on multi-target when you lose 10 expertise swapping to Command.

I would like to ask noobish question about trinkets for Plate normal mode. You wrote the BiS is Death Choice and Wishpering Skull and in your trinket ranking below there is War Token > then Wishpering Skull. Could you explain that? Thank you

Sorry about the heroic ring, it has the normal version now.
I have Shadow's Edge in my Rawr, however Bryntroll just 5 dps less with a 16% chance on meleehit to proc 2230 (in reality it is 11%, but Rawr doesn't model all melee hits so I had to pad the Rawr % to proc). Technically Shadow's Edge is better, but those that have it will get Shadowmourne, which I included as the alternative weapon for each gear listing.
Bloodfall is the 3rd best 2H normal mode weapon using the normal mode BiS list.


Sorry, I mistyped the order of trinkets. Skull (normal) is better than War Token.

I don't know if Shadow's Edge will be even close to the 264 Bryntroll. On a single target non gimmick fight like H25 Jaraxxus the proc provided 707 DPS.

You are likely right but I need a better way to model the proc in Rawr, I thought 16% was high. Rawr.Ret will not be updated for at least another week (that is what Ermad said in the Rawr thread), and who knows if the proc will be modeled properly then.

Note Shadow's Edge has a sexy 3.7 speed, which helps out a lot (124 dps right there over a 3.4 speed) along with good stats/sockets with a 6 strength bonus.

Seal of Many Mouths is a Non-Plate Item. I know Ring and all but the all-Plate gear lists, to my understanding, never takes items away from agi based classes. Which is why The Rep ring is OK because us having it doesn't mean a Agi based Class couldn't get it. While the Seal of Many Mouths is a Boss drop meaning if we have it we took the opportunity to have the ring from a Agi Based class.

Difficult to say without testing the tier 10 two piece bonus. I would think the Consecration glyph is needed for exactly that reason though, longer duration should mean less CD clashes.

Or actually Glyph of Exorcism would probably be a better candidate to replace (if you're expertise capped w/o glyph) since its our lowest priority (aside from Holy Wrath).

No.

The consecrate glyph increases Consecrate damage by 25%, and the Exorcism glyph increases Exorcism damage by 20%. If you have both you should see them doing very similar damage on undead targets, but Consecrate has both the advantages of hitting several targets when necessary and also having a shorter cooldown which increases the dps gain. Your best two glyphs for maximizing dps even with 2pt10 are Consecrate and Judgement. After that you have SoV/C, Exorcism and Divine Storm as rational alternatives, and that depends on your expertise situation and how you value the healing from DS.

A Best in Slot thread should never use glyph of Divine Storm because it will never increase your dps (it may increase the raid dps if the smart heal saved someone though). Since Blizzard loves to put in AoE situations, Cons will never be dropped this expansion. The GCD and mana savings is invaluable.

However, if you wanted to max your trash AoE contribution, you could swap the SoV/Exo glyph with the Divine Storm glyph for help with trash mob healing.

Yes, after reconsideration I would think that glyph of Exorcism would be a better candidate to replace if you don't need the expertise from Glyph of Seal of Vengeance. I don't think you'd see a noticeable dps loss if you'd dropped Glyph of Exorcism for Glyph of Divine Storm. Yes, I realize that this forum is mainly for maximizing our dps, but in general I think it's better to help the raid other than beat people on the dps meters. I was only wondering what you guys thought about it.

How much does Glyph of Exorcism increase our dps, especially if the 2-piece bonus might cut it out of our rotation a majority of the time?

I've done some napkin math regarding Glyph of Divine Storm in (go figure) the thread discussing it.

In order for the Glyph to be useful you need:
A) Someone (or multiple people) who will die without a heal
B) The extra healing of the Glyph to be enough to prevent the death (a 2k overkill is moot, they're still dead), or delay the death long enough for a healer to cast a spell
C) Your DS to go off between taking initial damage (heal at 100% is overheal) and killing blow.

The chances of the Glyph being the difference between death or not (requirement B) is low - most kills are very high overkill. The chance of your DS being used within this window of opportunity (requirement C) is also low - you're hitting it on cooldown, not saving it for emergencies.

The Glyph could save a life, IF you DS at exactly the right moment, AND the right person is within range to be healed, AND are taking small enough damage that they don't die anyway. I think it was maybe 1 death in a thousand or ten thousand.

Otherwise all you've done is caused slightly greater overheal for your raid healers at the loss of a tiny bit of DPS (as said above 40-75DPS). You can just as easily argue that 40-75 more DPS would have prevented that 1% wipe - the boss would have died before you lost healer/tank/DPS.

If you don't need Glyph of SoV, use Exo or DS at your pleasure. Neither is going to make you look like a superstar. Exo's DPS will be lost in the RNG fluctiation of a fight and DS's healing lost in the ocean of overheal. Even 2%-max-health-nerfed JoL is superior to DS, Glyphed or not.

Thus far Sindragosa appears to be the only encounter that has the possibility of meeting your conditions for DS to be useful. You have constant DOT ticks from Frost Aura, which scale upwards in the "burn" phase due to a +% damage stacking buff. There is also a ranged and melee backlash damage mechanic that punishes each individually player for attacking or casting mindlessly. It'll be interesting to see the healing contribution from DS with 2P T10 on that encounter.

While I am not convinced that the modeling you are using to describe the benefit of DS is reasonable I do think this conclusion is correct. On my spreadsheet the Exorcism glyph is a .5% damage increase, which clearly is not very exciting. That is 12000 damage over an entire 5 minute boss fight. The GoDS would provide 42000 healing over that time, provided in chunks of 840 (average) to the person in the raid with lowest health.

Neither of these effects is likely to make or break your raid. However, we do see druids blanketing the raid with hots even if they aren't sure those people are going to need them because extra health buffers do save lives. There is value in just pouring on more healing to increase the margins of safety, though that value is small. It is the same as a healer taking a 1% more healing talent; It is nearly certain that the raid will succeed whether or not the healer takes that talent as most likely it is just more overhealing. Now and then though it will matter and the DS heal is the same, a small and extremely difficult to measure improvement.

140 healing/sec is a good 3% of a healers output, and if you are in fact in a multitarget fight then you could be supplying as high as 12% (theoretical and unlikely max) of a healers output, though more likely more like 6% through GoDS. I think the value of that is drastically higher than the value of .5% more damage dealt, but again neither is likely to make or break you.

That is essentially the best point on the DS glyph question. If you want utility and have an open glyph slot, take it. But since it provides a 0 DPS gain it doesn't really factor into a BiS setup.

I did some basic testing with Bryntroll and found that the proc on a fight that requires movement and or target switching (A la deathwhisper or marrowgar) it provides a decent ~500 dps increase. Now I haven't run any numbers on it or put math to it but I'd be a little perturbed if it turns out that the proc can outweigh the greater speed and stats that shadow's edge has.

Can anyone confirm the ordering for Bryn 264, Bryn 277, and Shadow's Edge? It would be fairly disappointing if Shadow's Edge is surpassed by a weapon that drops off the first boss in an instance and it is only used to complete the quests to upgrade it to Shadowmourne.

I have a question about the librams, has any1 tested Libram of Three Truths? It seems that a static 220 str increase would be better for boss fights or am i misinterpreting this

In my spreadsheet it is (from best to worst):
1) Shadowmourne (no proc or Str buff modeled)
2) Bryntroll Heroic
3) Bryntroll non-Heroic
4) Shadow's Edge*

* - some Heroic 277 can beat out Shadow's Edge, depending on gearing (hit, exp).

Obviously with the stacking Str buff and the proc, Shadowmourne would pull even further ahead.

This is part of the reason I argued FOR our top DK to be first Legendary in our guild. Now I just need Marrowgar to actually drop Bryntroll.