In what fights wouldn't you use righteous fury? In ICC I can only think of Deathwhisper HC and Valithria being an issue add wise. If you've sub-specced prot (which I imagine 90% of players in the hardmode content have done) ignoring 6% damage reduction is pretty foolish over what is almost a non-existant problem with 90% increased healing aggro.
You can pull aggro for sure on the pull with a judgement crit (and I've had it happen personally) but with the amount of tricks/MD going about in most raids it shouldn't ever be an issue after 5 seconds of the fight unless adds join later.
RF will sometimes give issues on Saurfang depending on how the group handles the beasts, especially if it's progression on 10m heroic. Pulling aggro with a judge crit usually means one judged too soon.
Speaking of judging, definitely wait for the judge on Blood Queen. I managed to pull third slot aggro and thus got turned into a vampire on our first attempt.
Please forgive me for backing up all the way to Arthas on non heroic. Our 10 man fell apart in March when we were one night away from downing Arthas. We have finally re formed with a less than perfect group makeup. We managed to get to LK with this group in about 3 hours which was promising since several players had never been beyond the first 8.
Healers = 2 druids and myself, tanks =DK and Warrior, melee = warrior, dk, rogue, ranged = 2 hunters
Here are my questions if anyone can help:
1)Anyone have any ideas on how to maximize this groups potential? We are bringing in drums, etc, but not having a priest of any kind means a pretty rough gimp in my mind. I could pull in a mage for one of the hunters, but might suffer (our guild is based on real life friends and family and personal relationships are highly valued over progression). Both druids are strong, but I could also risk huge blow back by bringing in a slightly undergeared disc/holy priest. Or does this not really matter anymore with the big buff now in ICC?
2)I am the only one who can cleanse - is there any benefit to me picking up the cleanse talents? 5 points total if I think about the mana reduction one and that reduces damage - I would drop the LoH points and maybe benediction to get there, but then I am thinking that benediction may provide just as much mana reduction as the cleanse talent?
1)Anyone have any ideas on how to maximize this groups potential? We are bringing in drums, etc, but not having a priest of any kind means a pretty rough gimp in my mind. I could pull in a mage for one of the hunters, but might suffer (our guild is based on real life friends and family and personal relationships are highly valued over progression). Both druids are strong, but I could also risk huge blow back by bringing in a slightly undergeared disc/holy priest. Or does this not really matter anymore with the big buff now in ICC?
As I am healing ICC 10 HM together with only one druid on most encounters and not getting too much trouble with it, I would think one of the druids may spec feral for melee-support. Except for Valithria, Sindragosa and Putricide you should be able to handle everything with two healers.
A caster may be beneficial, but without caster-support there won't be so much a difference, except Lady Deathwhisper (you might need the casters to controll the adds).
Originally Posted by Spey
2)I am the only one who can cleanse - is there any benefit to me picking up the cleanse talents? 5 points total if I think about the mana reduction one and that reduces damage - I would drop the LoH points and maybe benediction to get there, but then I am thinking that benediction may provide just as much mana reduction as the cleanse talent?
I don't think that skilling these will help in any of the ICC encounters.
It would be more effective to get more points in benediction, because HS, BoL, SS and your judgement are profiting from this and using a lot more mana over the duration of an encounter than cleansing.
RF will sometimes give issues on Saurfang depending on how the group handles the beasts, especially if it's progression on 10m heroic. Pulling aggro with a judge crit usually means one judged too soon.
Speaking of judging, definitely wait for the judge on Blood Queen. I managed to pull third slot aggro and thus got turned into a vampire on our first attempt.
I agree with the Saurfang statement but it really depends on the position that you take in the group. If you've got 30 yards from the front adds then I personally always kept it up, getting initial aggro from them was never an issue. I did however cancel it if I took position behind the tanks.
Anyone know if the Ruby Sanctum trinket procs off of Glyph HL yet? Would make a diff in some fights.
Likely not. Whatever procs from Trauma likely will proc from the trinket.
If anyone wants a Ruby healing guide, if someone makes one I will edit the OP.
Regarding 4.0, I do not plan to update this thread nor make a 4.0 thread now that the NDA is lifted.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Anyone know if the Ruby Sanctum trinket procs off of Glyph HL yet? Would make a diff in some fights.
The trinket does indeed work with glyph of holy light.
As for H Halion does anyone see a large benefit in using RF for both the damage reduction, and attracting the spawns to you? After trying it for 2-3 attempts last night I stopped because it either forced an early bubble from me, or I died quickly. Some feedback on RF from other players on the encounter or who have already downed it would be nice.
I cannot see the benifit outweighing the risk, speaking from the view of outside healing in ph 3. Maybe it could be used inside but i see it as suicidal with the adds about outside.
As a framework for a Ruby Sanctum normal healing guide, I offer:
• Who to heal? Beacon tank and heal people with Consumption, stand in the physical realm in phase 3, where raid damage is much lighter
• When to Plea? Anytime in phase 1, avoid in phase 3 when Corporeality is above 50%
• What to watch out for? Constant movement in phase 2; Tank damage rises massively in phase 3 if Corporeality hits 70%
• Cool tricks: Should be able to stand in melee throughout the whole of phase 2. Consumption effect can be Cleansed, even though it shows as a curse.
As a framework for a Ruby Sanctum normal healing guide, I offer:
• Who to heal? Beacon tank and heal people with Consumption, stand in the physical realm in phase 3, where raid damage is much lighter
• When to Plea? Anytime in phase 1, avoid in phase 3 when Corporeality is above 50%
• What to watch out for? Constant movement in phase 2; Tank damage rises massively in phase 3 if Corporeality hits 70%
• Cool tricks: Should be able to stand in melee throughout the whole of phase 2. Consumption effect can be Cleansed, even though it shows as a curse.
Thanks, that looks good for Halion. I will just add Fire Aura for the physical realm.
I assume the mini-bosses are not worth mentioning?
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
They have their gimmicks—tank switches, running away with fire beacons—but none of them that apply especially to holy paladins. All are brief encounters.
In regards to the Halion encounter, when Mark of Consumption is dispelled it leaves behind a shadow patch, on heroic difficulty, anyone standing in this patch will be slowed by 50%. If the target has Hand of Freedom before Mark of Consumption is dispelled, he or she will not be slowed by the shadow patch left behind.
So, as soon as someone gets Mark of Consumption, be sure to hit them with a Hand of Freedom (note that it will only be up for every other mark, so you'll want to rotate with another Paladin).
As a framework for a Ruby Sanctum normal healing guide, I offer:
• Who to heal? Beacon tank and heal people with Consumption, stand in the physical realm in phase 3, where raid damage is much lighter
Raid damage is much lighter in P3 physical realm, but the tank damage is also much greater in the shadow realm (or whatever it's called). I don't know about assuming you should be sent up to the physical side.
Raid damage is much lighter in P3 physical realm, but the tank damage is also much greater in the shadow realm (or whatever it's called). I don't know about assuming you should be sent up to the physical side.
Assuming you are running 2-3 healers (my guild runs 2) you can't afford to stay in shadow realm. There is too much movement and you won't be able to keep up your holy lights when you have to move out of the cutter. Physical realm is a much better choice for holy paladin healing, plus the FR aura is quite helpful up top.
As long as Coporality is maintained, actual damage against either tank is lower but the danger to everyone else is a little greater (void zones give a slow/snare debuf). In any event, there is a lot of movement in the Shadow World where I never felt as effective. I definitely feel Real World is more appropriate for Paladin healers.
Yeah, looking back at that bullet point, it reads like there's a causal connection between the raid damage and the recommendation on where you should stand, which is not necessarily what I intended. The constant rotation because of 'Twilight Cutter' makes the dark world (don't forget your moon pearl!) a tough place to heal.
Assuming a holy paladin is bad in the twilight realm because of movement is being ignorant.
Even with defile/vile spirit/valkyr movement paladins remain the best tank healers on Lich King.
In reality a paladin is very well suited for the twilight realm. The entire raid is grouped up so GoHL will heal for tremendous amounts. Movement during cutters doesnt limit your HL usage as much as you'd think.
You can squeeze out two HLs before having to move again. During that time you have HS + IoL FoL, which covers the 2 GCDs it takes to get in a position to cast another HL. Plus the spot healing you can maintain on the Soul Consumption taget while still healing the MT is perfect. This applies to the upstairs world aswell however more healing is needed on the Soul Consumption due to the aura ticking aswell + a potential slow if freedom wasnt applied.
I just think that the notion of a paladin not being a very good mobile healer gets overstated sometimes. We arent good mobile healers, but if a fight does require movement I dont think it automatically disqualifies us. Think LK again.
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I just think that the notion of a paladin not being a very good mobile healer gets overstated sometimes. We arent good mobile healers, but if a fight does require movement I dont think it automatically disqualifies us. Think LK again.
The Statement that "Paladins NOT being a VERY GOOD mobile healer" cannot be overstated. You yourself say so in the next sentance.
What might be considered an overstatement is Paladins are VERY BAD mobile healers, but even this is arguable.
Given all that it would be an unusual healer team that would put their only holy paladin in the twilight realm.
But against that just because you have an oversupply of holy paladins does not necessarily mean you have to call it rather than have one of them helping in the twilight realm. I just think you are "Overstating" your position
Assuming you are running 2-3 healers (my guild runs 2) you can't afford to stay in shadow realm. There is too much movement and you won't be able to keep up your holy lights when you have to move out of the cutter. Physical realm is a much better choice for holy paladin healing, plus the FR aura is quite helpful up top.
I was speaking of 25man.
At first we did place our pally up top, but decided to have her come down after a couple attempts ending in tank deaths. The damage up top is relatively trivial. I believe we ended up having just a Shaman and a single tree up top in the end. Our pally was annoyed at the movement required down below, sure, but she still managed just fine. That change ended our string of wipes due to tank deaths.
Originally Posted by EvadDeWahr
The Statement that "Paladins NOT being a VERY GOOD mobile healer" cannot be overstated. You yourself say so in the next sentance.
What might be considered an overstatement is Paladins are VERY BAD mobile healers, but even this is arguable.
Given all that it would be an unusual healer team that would put their only holy paladin in the twilight realm.
But against that just because you have an oversupply of holy paladins does not necessarily mean you have to call it rather than have one of them helping in the twilight realm. I just think you are "Overstating" your position
Paladins may be bad, or even horrible, mobile healers, sure, but the point I was trying to make is that they're still more useful down below where the damage all around is much more intense compared to up top where it is relatively light.
I was trying to solo heal 10H RS physical realm in p3, but when I run for consumption, both the tank and I were at low health. Could you guys give some suggestions?
Without holy priest shield, the consumption is dispelled at stack 4, and my health is really low at that time. Actually I cannot even keep myself alive...
In what fights wouldn't you use righteous fury? In ICC I can only think of Deathwhisper HC and Valithria being an issue add wise. If you've sub-specced prot (which I imagine 90% of players in the hardmode content have done) ignoring 6% damage reduction is pretty foolish over what is almost a non-existant problem with 90% increased healing aggro.
On LK Heroic I only use RF when we have our DK tanking the adds in P1, I had too many instances of loose ghouls aggroing to me with other tank set ups.
When solo healing the physical realm on RS 10H P3, we had an elemental shaman offhealing when I was marked and had to run which pretty much solved all the issues we had with that part of the fight.
On LK Heroic I only use RF when we have our DK tanking the adds in P1, I had too many instances of loose ghouls aggroing to me with other tank set ups.
Ghouls aren't a big deal, even if they get on you it's not like you're going to die, and the tank can taunt it back anyway.
On a new subject while getting bored farming ICC I decided to try out the FoL build having regemmed full sp, reglyphed, and changed my gear setup. I was running with 801 haste (which I do realize is a bit much), 3551 sp, and 42% crit. Remember too all those stats are completely unbuffed, also running 2p t10.
My stance on the FoL build is to stay far away from it for the rest of this expansion. 1sec 12k casts (in raid with 25% ICC buff too) vs 26k+ HLs on a 1.3sec cast speaks for itself. Spamming FoL on 11/12 in ICC it likely won't have that big of an impact due to the state of how easy 11/12 are with the zone buff. However when it comes to H LK where it counts you obviously cannot rely on FoL to keep tanks alive. H Halion would be a painful encounter as well trying to keep dragon tanks alive through corporeality fluctuations and add tanks when they spawn.
The good thing about the spec is mana should never, ever be an issue unless you start to spam HL heavily. Overall I would never recommend it for a serious spec.
I was trying to solo heal 10H RS physical realm in p3, but when I run for consumption, both the tank and I were at low health. Could you guys give some suggestions?Without holy priest shield, the consumption is dispelled at stack 4, and my health is really low at that time.
I would reconsider how your overall raid is positioned, if you tank facing the outer ring and have the raid swap one every meteor crash, without the addition of adds in 10man this makes it a lot easier. By going to this strategy you will, be able to reduce the build of additional stacks by running the Mark of Combustion directly behind you to the outer edge. Depending on raid comp, the upper phase is usually composed of ranged(spriest, bookin, ele), each of which have the ability to heal. Would be in your best interest to call for some type of heal or something if you really need it; if not save your DF and HS with a Instant FoL and heal off of yourself till the debuff wears off, but you should not reach past 3 stacks before a dispel.
On LK Heroic I only use RF when we have our DK tanking the adds in P1, I had too many instances of loose ghouls aggroing to me with other tank set ups.
I would hold off on RF till later phases, in phase 1 depending on RnG you might pull a ghoul with a building stack and have necrotic plague be passed to you, in this case you will be forced to run to the OT causing unnecessary movement(and possibly a tank Gib depending on your other healers), I would just wait till P2 or later to activate RF.
The trinket does indeed work with glyph of holy light.
As for H Halion does anyone see a large benefit in using RF for both the damage reduction, and attracting the spawns to you? After trying it for 2-3 attempts last night I stopped because it either forced an early bubble from me, or I died quickly. Some feedback on RF from other players on the encounter or who have already downed it would be nice.
Can confirm that the trinket works with GoHL,
as for H Halion we use 3 holy paladins, 2 in the physical realm and myself in the twillight realm.
Tips on this:
4 set bonus is really helpful, start on the far left side of the quadrant you can get around 2 holy lights in before having to move, use holy shock then the FoL if it critted. Then throw a holy light with a 1.1sec cast and by that point the cutter should be almost over.
06/22/10, 9:29 AM
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