Holy Paladin Compendium for 3.3 - Page 35

magnusharkov · 02/23/10, 8:52 AM

Has anyone else tried healing Dreamwalker with a sheath of light spec? I healed it as ret spec in a 10 man which then caused me to try a 28/0/43 spec in 25 man where I topped healing. I haven't got a log with conclusive proof but I believe that sheath double scales with the healing buff as it typically accounted for 30-40% of my healing done despite only having 50% spell crit (at 50% crit you would expect it to be around 23%). It could be a freak occurrence though.

Has anyone else found this? If it does indeed double scale then I'd have thought it would be the best dreamwalker spec, despite the lost haste.

gcbirzan · 02/23/10, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

With the huge +healing stack, spell power should be better than haste.

Why? Your healing just gets increased by X%, so if haste is better before the increase, it will still be better afterwards.

Harmann · 02/23/10, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by gcbirzan

Why? Your healing just gets increased by X%, so if haste is better before the increase, it will still be better afterwards.

In theory yes, but not once you introduce all our odd double dipping mechanics and exploit them, such as GoHL.

1% haste will boost GoHL by 1%, 1% spell power might boost it 3% it seems.

Along those lines, has anyone here put a HoT on Valith with Flash of Light while stacked to 30 or something with Wings + DI running? I'm curious what numbers that produces...going by the GoHL numbers previously posted:

Flash of Light baseline crit for 10k let's say.
10,000 x 2 x 1.35 x 1.2 = 32,400.
32,400 x 2 x 1.35 x 1.2 x 2 (don't know where or why this last 2 exists, but it seems to) = 209,952 over 12 seconds. 17,496 per second.

This is entirely theorycraft based on the previous post and assuming 20 stacked. I will try this out tonight during my 10 man run.

If those numbers are correct, Guardian Spirit would shoot your FoL HoT to numbers upwards of 410k over 12...35k per sec/tick.

Ggx · 02/23/10, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Harmann

In theory yes, but not once you introduce all our odd double dipping mechanics and exploit them, such as GoHL.

1% haste will boost GoHL by 1%, 1% spell power might boost it 3% it seems.

Along those lines, has anyone here put a HoT on Valith with Flash of Light while stacked to 30 or something with Wings + DI running? I'm curious what numbers that produces...going by the GoHL numbers previously posted:

Flash of Light baseline crit for 10k let's say.
10,000 x 2 x 1.35 x 1.2 = 32,400.
32,400 x 2 x 1.35 x 1.2 x 2 (don't know where or why this last 2 exists, but it seems to) = 209,952 over 12 seconds. 17,496 per second.

This is entirely theorycraft based on the previous post and assuming 20 stacked. I will try this out tonight during my 10 man run.

If those numbers are correct, Guardian Spirit would shoot your FoL HoT to numbers upwards of 410k over 12...35k per sec/tick.

If that's really the case I'm about to go grab 4 Piece T9 and socket it with full spellpower just to be used on Valrithia.

Harmann · 02/23/10, 8:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ggx

If that's really the case I'm about to go grab 4 Piece T9 and socket it with full spellpower just to be used on Valrithia.

Just a theory based on some numbers further up in the thread. Diamondtear had a Holy Light for 82k which triggered a GoHL heal for 53k.

GoHL without any odd double dipping would have been 8,200...meaning a multiplier of ~6.5 was applied to the heal (FoL's HoT I believe experiences the exact same double dip mechanics as GoHL so this is a solid number to use).

I'm unbuffed right now in Ironforge, so this isn't perfect data but: HL crit = 21k FoL crit = 8.3k. A 40% decrease. If I apply that same 40% to that 82k HL crit, we get a Flash of Light crit for 32,800. If I apply the same GoHL scaling coefficient (6.5) to that, we get a HoT for 213,200.

4pc T9 would bring that to 426,400. Guardian Spirit would bring that to 835,000 or so.

With full SP gemming, Wrathful Libram and an on use trinket of 800 SP or whatever...well you get the idea. Keep in mind that 4pc T9 means you lose the 35% heal buff during DI though.

Zoning into ICC10 in a couple hours and will be able to test hopefully.

Harmann · 02/23/10, 11:21 PM

Confirmed. Max FoL tick: 28,762!

That's a HoT of 345,144 over 12s.

This was 10man with 5 Druids and no raid buff synergy at all, no flask...I think I forgot to equip my relentless libram in fact too. Wore my T9 though for the 4pc. I'm not sure we logged tonight on WoL though because our raid leader is on vacation and he handles that generally. All in all though the numbers are cool, but it might not really be a HUGE throughput increase:

1) Lesser gear. In a couple months, you'll be sacrificing 19 item levels and optimal itemization (though 4pc T9 isn't bad as long as it's shoulders, helm and gloves as your first 3). Though you can now regem T9 specifically for this; +3% crit heal meta gem and spell power in every socket.

2) Flash of Light doesn't have 100% crit of course and you might end up wasting 2-3 potential HL casts while you try to get a crit.

If we go by my numbers previously posted and assign normalized values to each of our heals and their components on Dream Walker (assuming 1.3s Holy Light):

Holy Light     = 10.0 = 7.7/sec
GoHL           =  6.5 = 5.0/sec
Flash of Light =  4.0 = 4.0/sec
FoL HoT        = 26.0 = 2.2/sec
FoL HoT 4pc    = 52.0 = 4.4/sec

Now folding the components back into their base heals, GoHL into HL and the HoT into FoL (obviously assuming you only cast FoL once per 12s)

Holy Light     = 12.7/sec
Flash of Light = 30.0/sec
FoL + 4pc     = 56.0/sec

Critical strikes would multiply each by 1.5 of course. You can basically multiply all of these numbers by 1.25 if assuming 50% crit.

However, each second you spend spamming FoL (initial heal + 1 single HoT tick) is only worth 6.2 or 8.4 with 4pc. Holy Light becomes 16.5/sec while under Heroism.

Flash of Light may net you 30 healing units per second spent, but consider the added brain work, monitoring crits vs noncrits, requiring Sacred Shield etc etc.

Casting Sacred Shield and 2 FoLs in a row to try for a critical strike, then let's add an additional GCD while you begin casting the 3rd FoL and cancel once seeing the previous one was a crit = 4 seconds total spent babysitting the FoL mechanic. 6.2 healing units gained for one second while spamming non-crit FoLs and 60 healing units gained upon the FoL critical strike.

In these 4 seconds, you would have on average gained 63.5 healing units by spamming Holy Light (12.7 x 1.25 for crits) compared to 66.2 gained via Flash of Light.

Wearing 4pc changes the numbers to: 63.5 units by spamming HL and 120.4 via babysitting FoL.

During Heroism though we get 82.6 units spamming HL and the same 66.2/120.4 (depending on 4pc) via FoL.

This whole thing is pretty moot anyway since this fight isn't exactly a cockblock on normal or heroic difficulty. Just a fun encounter.

Jhoff · 02/24/10, 6:25 AM

I have only tried the Lich King fight 1 evening with a few attempts. According to the tactic's the Spirit Warden you face inside Frostmourne is vulnerable to all sorts of crowdcontrols that works on normal undeads. I guess this means that you can use hammer of wrath, holy wrath and even attack them with seal of justice as a holy paladin. My question is, can you fear them with "Fear undead"? I know that the effect will break very fast because of the damage it will recieve from Terenas, but if you can interrupt spellcasting with "fear undead" the Frostmourne-phase should be the easiest thing in the world for a holy paladin. Anyone who tried this?

DiamondTear · 02/24/10, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jhoff

I have only tried the Lich King fight 1 evening with a few attempts. According to the tactic's the Spirit Warden you face inside Frostmourne is vulnerable to all sorts of crowdcontrols that works on normal undeads. I guess this means that you can use hammer of wrath, holy wrath and even attack them with seal of justice as a holy paladin. My question is, can you fear them with "Fear undead"? I know that the effect will break very fast because of the damage it will recieve from Terenas, but if you can interrupt spellcasting with "fear undead" the Frostmourne-phase should be the easiest thing in the world for a holy paladin. Anyone who tried this?

Just spam HL on Terenas until the mob casts his spell, then use HoJ. No need for any fancy stuff.

joegrizly · 02/24/10, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by Rataard

Beacon always requires line of sight with the beacon'd target to place the beacon heal. It's the tradeoff to a 60m range. Otherwise, we'd have some real fun in arena's.

I'm not sure if this was brought up again but you CAN beacon a target and hide behind a pillar/iceblock (sindragosa) and heal yourself or another party member and have the beacon target still receive the beacon heal..

You dont HAVE to be in LoS of your beacon target to heal them with beacon. I've even tested it before pulling sindragosa ( also in arenas ) standing clearly behind a wall/pillar and healing myself with the beacon target out of my LoS and they still receivied full heals..

In PvP it's a matter of your beacon being dispelled... in PvE you shouldnt have to worry about that

Harmann · 02/24/10, 3:13 PM

The walls and structures around the Sindragosa room aren't considered LoS objects. Noticed that while testing Beacon LoS.

Silmeria · 02/24/10, 4:40 PM

Indeed, I would check your test conditions first.

It's *always* been the case that you had to have LoS on your beacon target to transfer a beacon heal. The arena implications are way too massive if it behaved otherwise.

PKainus · 02/24/10, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by DiamondTear

Just spam HL on Terenas until the mob casts his spell, then use HoJ. No need for any fancy stuff.

I haven't experienced it on 25-man yet, but on 10-man, Sacred Shield + a FoL HoT was enough to keep Terenas up. I used the rest of my time to melee the mob to get my mana back. I honestly just saw this part as a nice regen break.

Silmeria · 02/25/10, 12:16 AM

Pretty sure he hits harder based on his health, so you're better off healing him to full. You really want to get your Holy Paladin back into the fight as soon as possible generally.

Nycgangsta · 02/25/10, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Holy Paladin Compendium
Arthas, the Lich King

Who to heal? Beacon the MT and heal the off tank then the raid. If helping raid healing when Infest is cast (every player must be above 90%), make sure the tanks are fine.

Sorry i might have messed up the quote a little but anyway I have very little experience on Arthas 25, I've never really even got passed the first transition phase, but at least from what i was seeing in phase 1 it made more sense to Beacon the OT and heal the MT so the splash heals would heal the raid instead of just not hit anyone.. any comments?

MeliadoulCairne · 02/25/10, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Nycgangsta

Sorry i might have messed up the quote a little but anyway I have very little experience on Arthas 25, I've never really even got passed the first transition phase, but at least from what i was seeing in phase 1 it made more sense to Beacon the OT and heal the MT so the splash heals would heal the raid instead of just not hit anyone.. any comments?

Correct. In fact, this generalization should apply to any fight - in fights where a beacon would benefit more than one obvious target, it's preferable to beacon the target that is separated from the rest of the raid to maximize GoHL effectiveness.