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10/30/10, 5:03 PM
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#121
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In gear/DCT lock pin
Human Priest
Alleria (EU)
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Some additions/changes to the FAQ went in: Disc soft caps, some Infest hints, a new Atonement Q&A item and little stuff not worth mentioning. I am currently holding some changes for Holy back, including the haste caps, to come with the holy talent changes due for 4.0.3.
If you consider any of the other findings in this thread absolute "need-to-know" stuff for raiding at 80, please send a PM and I'll see what I can do without transforming the FAQ into a full guide.
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson
The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.
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11/01/10, 8:57 AM
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#122
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Glass Joe
Human Priest
Arathor (EU)
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Originally Posted by Sgat8516
As for Disc though, has anyone noticed what seems to be an extra delay in the PW:S CD? I've been bubble spamming since early Ulduar, and never had a problem getting max shields out in combat. But for like LK last night (when the timing was more apparent), I couldn't seem to get out more than 11-12 shields per infest (normally like 18-20 depending on time). Not sure if its just server lag with the GCD cue system or what.
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Yeah, it was a hard hit to my healing after 4.0.1 came life. But then I moved to Reforging and reforged and regemmed for not only Mastery, but also for Haste. And the problem didnt disappeare, but is much less painful now, so I assume that it is the haste nerf in action :/. Haste affects GCD, doestnt it?
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11/01/10, 5:58 PM
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#123
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Priest
Talnivarr (EU)
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Originally Posted by Hegen
These tank healing rotations/lists, while interesting, are too simplified in my opinion to allow for final conclusions. There's overheal to consider - especially from Renew - as well as effects from DA (including the DA cap) and not to forget impact from latency (brain and technical). I suggest to wait and model this for level 85 later when numbers have settled, perhaps a first Rawr model for cross-checking is available, and we're also looking at completely different tank healing scenarios.
Not wanting to prevent someone from doing work now - it's just that it needs to be done reasonably complete before we can really talk about "better" or "worse".
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I've actually done quite a bit of Cataclysm healing as disc on beta, and at lvl85 in blue and bad gear you'll love greater heal. It's not as mana inefficient as you may think either since it lowers the already low cd on Inner Focus. With the massive hp pools of players and the lower healing of aoe-spells you actually find yourself in situations where topping up non tanks will disturb your Heal spamming and force you to Gheal the tank a few times.
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SNAKE!
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11/02/10, 8:46 AM
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#124
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Von Kaiser
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One of the most interesdting things I noticed as Atonement-specced Disc was that, in 4pcT10, the FH proc bonus was also affecting the Atonement heal. It happened on Sunday in ICC25, and again in RS25 last night. It only procced once in each, so I reported it as a bug, but it was definitely interesting to note.
Keep an eye out for it, justy to make sure I wasn't going nuts.
Last edited by Ultimoron : 11/02/10 at 8:47 AM.
Reason: noobish typing
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11/02/10, 6:13 PM
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#125
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King Hippo
Night Elf Priest
Silvermoon (EU)
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Originally Posted by Lambi
I've actually done quite a bit of Cataclysm healing as disc on beta, and at lvl85 in blue and bad gear you'll love greater heal. It's not as mana inefficient as you may think either since it lowers the already low cd on Inner Focus. With the massive hp pools of players and the lower healing of aoe-spells you actually find yourself in situations where topping up non tanks will disturb your Heal spamming and force you to Gheal the tank a few times.
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Hmm I did not realise inner focus is now a 45 second CD. With ~2 sec cast time that means if you use IF and then cast 6 gheals IF there will be 3 seconds left on IF. That is 1 free gheal every 8. With 2.5 sec cast time its 1 free gheal every 7. 12-14% reduction in gheal mana cost.
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11/03/10, 8:21 AM
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#126
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Glass Joe
Gnome Priest
Ravencrest (EU)
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There's quite a nasty bug with Inner Focus that I didn't see mentioned anywhere else here.
If you activate it right at the end of a cast that would benefit from IF then the buff gets consumed but you won't get the actual benefit of the cooldown.
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11/03/10, 3:52 PM
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#127
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Priest
Trollbane (EU)
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These should be the LVL 80 values for all Priest spells, except Shadowfiend.
For Heal over Time (HoT) and Damage over Time (DoT) spells, the values listed is per Tick.
Deviance is how much a spell can vary between minimum and maximum. A spell with a deviance of 10% that hits for 1000 will have a minimum of (1000*(1-10%/2)) = 950 and a maximum of (1000*(1+10%/2)) = 1050.
Exp Coeff = Expected coefficient. This is the coefficient I expected given a Spell Rating implementation. (1% increase for every 83.66 Spell Power)
Real Coeff = Coefficient found in the game data files.
All spells seem to have a 3 decimal coefficient except for Holy Nova which seems to have a 4th decimal.
Of Priest spells only PW: Barrier seems to break the expected coefficient. PW: Barrier also has an additional coefficient for each time a person takes damage. The increase in absorb on a single hit max is 1.2.
| Healing spell | Deviance | Exp Coeff | Real Coeff | 80 Avg | 80 Min | 80 Max | | Binding Heal | 25,00% | 0,40313 | 0,40300 | 3372,617 | 2951,040 | 3794,194 | | Circle of Healing | 10,00% | 0,20010 | 0,20000 | 1674,037 | 1590,335 | 1757,739 | | Desperate Prayer | 16,50% | 0,57117 | 0,57100 | 4778,368 | 4384,152 | 5172,583 | | Divine Hymn | 0,00% | 0,42913 | 0,42900 | 3590,123 | 3590,123 | 3590,123 | | Flash Heal | 15,00% | 0,60475 | 0,60400 | 5059,349 | 4679,898 | 5438,800 | | Greater Heal | 15,00% | 0,80627 | 0,80600 | 6745,234 | 6239,341 | 7251,127 | | Heal | 15,00% | 0,30238 | 0,30200 | 2529,674 | 2339,949 | 2719,400 | | Holy Nova | 15,00% | 0,19626 | 0,19630 | 1641,876 | 1518,736 | 1765,017 | | HW: Sanctuary | 17,30% | 0,03500 | 0,03100 | 292,829 | 267,500 | 318,159 | | HW: Serenity | 16,00% | 0,60465 | 0,60400 | 5058,503 | 4653,822 | 5463,183 | | Lightwell | 0,00% | 0,30804 | 0,30800 | 2577,069 | 2577,069 | 2577,069 | | Penance | 12,20% | 0,26808 | 0,26800 | 2242,769 | 2105,960 | 2379,578 | | Prayer of Healing | 5,50% | 0,33313 | 0,33300 | 2786,958 | 2710,317 | 2863,599 | | Prayer of Mending | 0,00% | 0,31806 | 0,31800 | 2660,855 | 2660,855 | 2660,855 | | PW: Barrier | 0,00% | 2,27171 | 6,00000 | 19005,141 | 19005,141 | 19005,141 | | PW: Shield | 0,00% | 0,41811 | 0,41800 | 3497,874 | 3497,874 | 3497,874 | | Renew | 0,00% | 0,13101 | 0,13100 | 1095,995 | 1095,995 | 1095,995 |
I have not yet found a simple logic for finding expected coefficients for damage spells, so only coefficients listed in the game data files are available.
| Damage spell | Deviance | Coefficient | 80 Avg | 80 Min | 80 Max | | Devouring Plague | 0,00% | 0,185 | 138,798 | 138,798 | 138,798 | | Holy Fire | 23,80% | 0,571 | 916,573 | 807,501 | 1025,645 | | Holy Fire DoT | 0,00% | 0,024 | 45,702 | 45,702 | 45,702 | | Holy Nova | 15,00% | 0,143 | 267,440 | 247,382 | 287,498 | | HW: Chastise | 11,50% | 0,614 | 535,726 | 504,921 | 566,530 | | Mind Blast | 5,50% | 0,429 | 947,041 | 920,997 | 973,085 | | Mind Flay | 0,00% | 0,257 | 149,800 | 149,800 | 149,800 | | Mind Sear | 8,00% | 0,114 | 84,633 | 81,247 | 88,018 | | Mind Spike | 5,50% | 0,429 | 996,974 | 969,558 | 1024,391 | | Penance | 12,20% | 0,458 | 666,906 | 626,225 | 707,588 | | Smite | 11,50% | 0,714 | 620,358 | 584,688 | 656,029 | | SW: Death | 0,00% | 0,845 | 809,090 | 809,090 | 809,090 | | SW: Pain | 0,00% | 0,234 | 198,041 | 198,041 | 198,041 | | Vampiric Touch | 0,00% | 0,400 | 97,328 | 97,328 | 97,328 |
I am still working on figuring out how every talent affects each spell, and will be coming back with additional information on that sometime soon.
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11/07/10, 11:03 AM
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#128
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Priest
Bloodhoof
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I have noticed a great number of priests shying away from Holy tree, citing Chakra as the reason. Most people are claiming it's 'too complicated' or 'just confusing' to keep track of.
I may be one of the weird ones, but I've slipped into Chakra renew and Chakra PoH quite easily, and am pleased with the results. I am working on my next blog and am writing a "don't be scared of chakra" type. I'm wondering if there are any others out there who have these reservations out there might be willing to personal message me a few of their questions so I can address them
By the way has anyone else seen the double-edged sword that was pointed out on the Cataclysm theorycrafting board regarding the new changes to Renew/Chakra renew? I at first was pleased that they gave us a passive ability to reduce the cast time of Renew by 0.5...it hadn't dawned on me the impact that it would have by not allowing Haste to doubly affect it. I guess it will be nice for Prayer of Mending to influence Prayer of Healing's Chakra though ^.^ I see these as positive things, keeping the holy priest out of the 'blanket hot' niche, while still giving us the versatility needed to flow between our Chakras and roles in raids.
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11/08/10, 9:49 AM
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#129
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Keyboard Cowboy
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That's interesting to hear because I find the Chakra system as a selling point to spice up the game play of Holy right now. I'm glad they are moving Priests away from blanket renew, it just didn't feel right. Looking forward to your blog post.
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11/13/10, 6:17 AM
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#130
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In gear/DCT lock pin
Human Priest
Alleria (EU)
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The FAQ is now out of maintenance (see FAQ intro). Feel free to continue discussion until Cata, but please no more feedback to me.
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson
The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.
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11/13/10, 4:56 PM
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#131
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Glass Joe
Human Priest
Kilrogg (EU)
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I have been finding the Chakra mechanic to be a lot of fun, I haven't used the smite one, but I like the flexibility offered by the healing Chakras. My only complaint with Holy as it stands is the fact that there are only 4 unspent points in the tree (excluding Blessed Resilience) which seems to contradict Blizzard's position on having a degree in flexibility in talent specs. There is very little wriggle room in the current Holy Tree and it feels like you're forced to take points in some mediocre talents to get to the bottom.
Last edited by Kyai : 11/13/10 at 5:12 PM.
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11/16/10, 9:21 PM
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#132
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by The Not So Evil
| Damage spell | Deviance | Coefficient | 80 Avg | 80 Min | 80 Max | | Mind Spike | 5,50% | 0,429 | 996,974 | 969,558 | 1024,391 | | SW: Death | 0,00% | 0,845 | 809,090 | 809,090 | 809,090 | | SW: Pain | 0,00% | 0,234 | 198,041 | 198,041 | 198,041 |
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A few of your coefficients are incorrect. Listed are the correct values:
Shadow Word: Death: 0.282 (0.846 in execute range)
Mind Spike: 0.557
Shadow Word: Pain: 0.183
*edit* Just to confirm, these values are from the game data files.
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11/17/10, 6:03 AM
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#133
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In gear/DCT lock pin
Human Priest
Alleria (EU)
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Originally Posted by Althor
A few of your coefficients are incorrect. Listed are the correct values:
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TNSe also takes values from the game files, in this case 4.01 (at some build number). If you want to discuss individual values, the both of you should specify build numbers, otherwise you never know what a post was based on.
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson
The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.
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11/18/10, 12:11 AM
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#134
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Hegen
TNSe also takes values from the game files, in this case 4.01 (at some build number). If you want to discuss individual values, the both of you should specify build numbers, otherwise you never know what a post was based on.
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A fair enough point. The values I posted are current to 13287 and 13316.
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11/21/10, 11:26 AM
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#135
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Namika
I have noticed a great number of priests shying away from Holy tree, citing Chakra as the reason. Most people are claiming it's 'too complicated' or 'just confusing' to keep track of.
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I've talked to a few people in the mid-ranged progress guilds on our server and all of the holy priests say much the same thing about Chakra. From what I can gather, its figuring out ahead of time what state you need to be in to address the situation, which some of them really don't feel like doing. I feel that this class and spec, more than other, is addressing the blue post about choosing the right heal for the right situation at the right time. But for that reason I think holy is going to be more vital than ever and there will be a gap that needs to be filled by skilled holy priests.
I hope more people come back to it, but we'll see a couple weeks after December 7th.
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