Shadowpriest FAQ for 4.0 - Page 3

Isildien · 10/14/10, 9:31 PM

Originally Posted by zaxbysauce

Disregard that last. Apparently the coefficient nerf was a rumor and they actually nerfed the Glyph.

Yeah, the Glyph now has an internal cooldown like they initially said it would back when the glyph was announced.

Kobushizen · 10/14/10, 11:46 PM

I've spend quite a bit of time on dummy this afternoon since the SW: D changes and I noticed that the instant component of DP does more damage than SW: D.
Granted, that does not include the 30% buff from the target being below 25% health.

However my numbers were (with several hundred of each, no one else on heroic dummy)
Improved DP: averaged 4468 for 68.3% of casts, 7194 crit for 31.7%,
4468*.683+7184*31.7=5332 avg dmg

SW: D 2176 for 73.1%, Crit 4504 for 26.9%
2176*.731+4504*.269=2802 * 1.30 buff = 3643 <-- adjusted to reflect 30% buff below 25% health

Given that with no more dot clipping, recasting DP won't reset the DOT timer...
Am I missing some reason as to why we should still be casting SW: D?

Thanks,

Arnoldlayne00 · 10/15/10, 1:26 AM

Were you testing on a dummy with "1 hp," because they're really at 100%. I've been trying to get in a raid all night to figure out what the damage is at execute range to no avail.

Are there coefficients out for death at execute range? Also any confirmation on whether or not GC's post was a typo "except when the target is at the 20% wounded state." I only ask because Mind Melt states 25%. Either they're changing the talent to reflect the 20% change, death's tooltip is going to be changed to reflect a damage boost at 20% (that stacks with mind melt?), or it was a typo. Heh.

Isildien · 10/15/10, 2:46 AM

Messing around on the Priest right now and it looks like they might have hotfixed SW: D again. It is hitting mobs with >25% HP for around 1.8-2.4k with 3437 SP and 8-10k <25%. If this is the case it looks like SW: D will be removed from the rotation until execute range.

Sui-san · 10/15/10, 3:20 AM

Given the changes to stats and so forth, I was wondering if the old CSD is no longer the optimal metagem, given that many other metas give Int now, which scales better than Crit.

Any numbers on this at all or is it still like the rest of the time and stick with CSD?

zaxbysauce · 10/15/10, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by Isildien

Messing around on the Priest right now and it looks like they might have hotfixed SW: D again. It is hitting mobs with >25% HP for around 1.8-2.4k with 3437 SP and 8-10k <25%. If this is the case it looks like SW: D will be removed from the rotation until execute range.

This is confirmed. They have hotfixed SW

eath again and reduced the damage coefficient above 25%. DP instant effect hits considerably harder now, and with the changes to clipping should replace SW

eath as your go to spell for movement.

zaxbysauce · 10/15/10, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by Sui-san

Given the changes to stats and so forth, I was wondering if the old CSD is no longer the optimal metagem, given that many other metas give Int now, which scales better than Crit.

Any numbers on this at all or is it still like the rest of the time and stick with CSD?

Which metas are you referring to? The only one that comes to mind is ESD, and it gives 21 int and 2% total mana (not total int).

PiousFlea · 10/15/10, 10:54 AM

So it sounds like DoTs autorefresh spellpower and crit, but not Haste. That is a pretty big deal, both for potions and activatable Haste trinkets.

enqi · 10/15/10, 1:02 PM

Our kill from SaurfangHC this week - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis , horrible rng and lackluster play from my side but throughout ICC this is naturally what I figured out:
>25%
DP > VT > SWP >SWD > 3x Orb MB > MF > MB

<25% It appears just spamming SWD (With Wild Magic pot) is the way to go, but I'd argue at the fact that Shadowfiend and DP is more than worth to keep up due to the fact that they're both instant and both a significant dps boost for you (Shadowfiend sitting at 6-10% of my overall dps on LK hc for example)

Will addin next weeks Saurfang to compare and see the diffrence between SWD now and then.

Eiritha · 10/15/10, 1:16 PM

Is it just me or does Reign of the Dead not proc of MF anymore ?

Sui-san · 10/15/10, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by zaxbysauce

Which metas are you referring to? The only one that comes to mind is ESD, and it gives 21 int and 2% total mana (not total int).

Apologies for not making this more clear. I'm talking about the the following:

CSD Vs.

Bracing Earthsiege Diamond (21 Int and 2% threat reduced)

Ember Skyflare Diamond (21 Int and 2% maximum mana)*

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond (21 Int and chance to restore mana on spellcast)*

Tireless Skyflare Diamond (21 Int and Minor run speed)

* Might be more helpful at 85, due to reports of issues with mana from those in Beta.

Just out of curiosity, these might be more handy due to Spellpower vs Crit which is (comparatively) a much weaker stat.

If I'm off the mark completely, lemme know.

zaxbysauce · 10/15/10, 5:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sui-san

Apologies for not making this more clear. I'm talking about the the following:

CSD Vs.

Bracing Earthsiege Diamond (21 Int and 2% threat reduced)

Ember Skyflare Diamond (21 Int and 2% maximum mana)*

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond (21 Int and chance to restore mana on spellcast)*

Tireless Skyflare Diamond (21 Int and Minor run speed)

* Might be more helpful at 85, due to reports of issues with mana from those in Beta.

Just out of curiosity, these might be more handy due to Spellpower vs Crit which is (comparatively) a much weaker stat.

If I'm off the mark completely, lemme know.

Well the 21 crit is worth about 12ish spellpower, so the question then becomes how much is the 3% crit damage currently worth.

On a side note, I am hearing rumors that they have also just nerfed shadowfiend's damage output.

Shivaekul · 10/15/10, 10:31 PM

Quick of the top of my head math.

I'm going to use a crit value of 33%, just cause its a nice number. (Raid buffed shadowpriests should be well over this value).
(I am ignoring crit bonuses to specific spells from talents and tier sets.)
I'm not going to get into the relative scaleing of sp vs crit, so i'm just going to treat the damage of a spell as a constant.

Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*(1+Crit%*CSD)
Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*(1+.33*1.03)
Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*1.34

Without CSD
Total Damge=(Spell Damage)*1.33

Total Damage with CSD - Total Damage Without CSD
= (Spell Damage) * 1.34 - (Spell Damage) * 1.33
= (Spell Damage)*(1.34-1.33)
= (Spell Damage)*(.01)

This means that the CSD adds roughly 1% to our damage, and as spell power and crit go up, so do the value of the CSD.
Additionally, as of now we have no mana issues, and gain runspeed from our boots.
The only useful benefit we could get from another meta would be 2% less threat.

IMO ~1% extra damage is > 2% threat, especially as I run with good tanks.

Once we hit level 85, with its corresponding lower values of crit, then it might be useful to reevaluate the CSD, but for now, it still reigns supreme.

*I over simplified the damage equations, so my numbers are very approximate.*

*Edits were to try and get it to display halfway decently.
*Last Edit fixed a *Very* stupid math mistake. Numbers should be correct right now.

Sui-san · 10/16/10, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Shivaekul

Quick of the top of my head math.

I'm going to use a crit value of 33%, just cause its a nice number. (Raid buffed shadowpriests should be well over this value).
(I am ignoring crit bonuses to specific spells from talents and tier sets.)
I'm not going to get into the relative scaleing of sp vs crit, so i'm just going to treat the damage of a spell as a constant.

Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*(1+Crit%*CSD)
Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*(1+.33*1.03)
Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*1.34

Without CSD
Total Damge=(Spell Damage)*1.33

Total Damage with CSD - Total Damage Without CSD
= (Spell Damage) * 1.34 - (Spell Damage) * 1.33
= (Spell Damage)*(1.34-1.33)
= (Spell Damage)*(.01)

This means that the CSD adds roughly 1% to our damage, and as spell power and crit go up, so do the value of the CSD.
Additionally, as of now we have no mana issues, and gain runspeed from our boots.
The only useful benefit we could get from another meta would be 2% less threat.

IMO ~1% extra damage is > 2% threat, especially as I run with good tanks.

Once we hit level 85, with its corresponding lower values of crit, then it might be useful to reevaluate the CSD, but for now, it still reigns supreme.

*I over simplified the damage equations, so my numbers are very approximate.*

*Edits were to try and get it to display halfway decently.
*Last Edit fixed a *Very* stupid math mistake. Numbers should be correct right now.

Thanks for the number crunch. I suppose that now people are getting used to tanking with their new set-ups, aggro problems will be less dire. CSD it is.

zaxbysauce · 10/16/10, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Shivaekul

Quick of the top of my head math.

I'm going to use a crit value of 33%, just cause its a nice number. (Raid buffed shadowpriests should be well over this value).
(I am ignoring crit bonuses to specific spells from talents and tier sets.)
I'm not going to get into the relative scaleing of sp vs crit, so i'm just going to treat the damage of a spell as a constant.

Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*(1+Crit%*CSD)
Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*(1+.33*1.03)
Total Damage=(Spell Damage)*1.34

Without CSD
Total Damge=(Spell Damage)*1.33

Total Damage with CSD - Total Damage Without CSD
= (Spell Damage) * 1.34 - (Spell Damage) * 1.33
= (Spell Damage)*(1.34-1.33)
= (Spell Damage)*(.01)

This means that the CSD adds roughly 1% to our damage, and as spell power and crit go up, so do the value of the CSD.
Additionally, as of now we have no mana issues, and gain runspeed from our boots.
The only useful benefit we could get from another meta would be 2% less threat.

IMO ~1% extra damage is > 2% threat, especially as I run with good tanks.

Once we hit level 85, with its corresponding lower values of crit, then it might be useful to reevaluate the CSD, but for now, it still reigns supreme.

*I over simplified the damage equations, so my numbers are very approximate.*

*Edits were to try and get it to display halfway decently.
*Last Edit fixed a *Very* stupid math mistake. Numbers should be correct right now.

Very nice work and much appreciated.

With some testing last night the shadowfiend nerf seems to be nothing more than rumor. As far as I could tell over several 10+minute runs at a training dummy he was right around where he has always been. The Death nerf hurts a little. Removes it completely from the system above 25%, but at least it is still hitting full strength in execute range (albeit only twice every 8 seconds). We have still seen a pretty hefty dps increase with the patch so I am happy right now with where we are.