2 Things. This is from shadowpriest.com about MB on the Shadow Orb x3 issue.

Napkin math with some slight testing gave me an avg MF tick @ 2084 and MB(No Orbs) hit at 4055. The cast times for me at 1263 Haste rating and 4pc t10 are 1.66 seconds and 1 second respectively.

3(2084)/1.66 = 3766.26 while 4055/1 = 4055 (~300dps difference, similar to the post above's claim)

This proves with the new spell ranking system, an unorbed MB is better than a MF. Now according to the post from spriest.com, @ 950 haste you have an 11% chance to NOT generate a single orb, so at 1200 or so you are most likely getting at least 1 within the 6.5 seconds of MB's CD. Since each orb multiplies MB by ~1/3rd my MBs would hit at: ~5400/6700/8100 depending how many orbs proc within those 6.5 seconds. This would make MB on cooldown better than waiting for 3 orbs. For example: 3 2 orb MBs is better than 2 3 orb MBs.

Also, I would like to see crit vs. haste numbers now that SW:D has been reduced and the change to the glyph (a 5 or so second icd i think) both have been implemented.

That's basically it. The cooldown on shadow word death, resets if it hasn't been reset in the past X seconds. So you can do two in a row. I'm not sure what the value of X is, but from the testing I did, it's more than 5 seconds. That means you always want to cast a pair of them, which should get you 2 casts in 11 seconds. Waiting out the ICD won't be a DPS increase, since with an ICD over 5 seconds, you can't do better than that.

Though this is true in a base sense, it does not take into account flay's DPCT when the chance to lower fiend's CD is included into it's value. I would be interested to see how much value that added to flay vs an orbed and unorbed MB when you also consider that every GCD not casting flay is a GCD not spent reducing his CD. Keep in mind also that this "extra value" on flay will drop considerably when Cat releases and combat ratings drop making it much less likely to crit on flay than it is now. At this point you can almost guarantee 1-2 10 second reductions per cast at the 277 level.

Keep in mind I am just trying to get through the last 6 weeks of Wrath, so I don't care about cataclysm stuff at this time.

The 3 minute CD is 180 seconds. My shadowfiend does ~24k Damage over 15 Seconds. I'm at a 271 avg ilvl with about 36% crit. Every 1 crit reduces the CD by 10 seconds, so we can add about .056% of the shadowfiend damage to a MF crit, 1333 damage. To make numbers easier I will use 1000 casts.

1002 MF Ticks (334 casts) will have 360 crit and 642 non-crit. While my average tick is 2084, my avg crit is 4300.

(2084*642 + 360*4300) + (360*1333) = 3365808 Damage / 334*1.7 = 5927.81 DPS

1000 MBs will have 360 crit and 640 non-crit. Average hit is 4055, crit is 8513 (NO SHADOW ORBS)

4055*640 + 8513*360 = 5659880 Damage / 1000*1 = 5659.88 DPS

With no shadow orbs procing, yes if you factor in the Sin and Punishment talent, MF is better than MB on CD. However the chance of no shadow orbs procing @ end game gear's haste levels is very low. So let's assume each MB has at least 1 orb on it. After some math I learned that my crits were about 210% of the normal, and the 33% increase is on the initial damage then the crit is multiplied.

4055*1.33*640 + 4055*1.33*2.1*360 = 7528837.40 Damage / 1000*1 = 7528.84 DPS.

So arguably, wait till at least 1 Orb is up to MB, but most likely by making that extra effort to wait and look you will lose dps anyway.

EDIT: some abbreviations expanded.

dont forget that we get a permanent 5% haste now while in shadow form. at 1243, 26 below the 8 tick mark, i'm getting 8 ticks while in shadow form.

Those ratings assume 3/3 Darkness and the 5% haste buff are there. I did test the 10% and 30% marks though, this is what I got:

670 haste rating - 7 ticks
660 haste rating - 6 ticks

69 haste rating - 6 ticks
42 haste rating - 5 ticks


My concern is testing the 50% (1269 rating with Mind Quickening and Darkness) mark. I don't have enough haste on my gear even with 20 haste in every socket to do this myself. I was hoping somebody with higher haste could help me out there and confirm that you get 8 ticks before 1269 haste rating.

Does the gcd kick in with the reset? I don't know if I've seen it, or if the quick succession hits can be done in under that time.

I noticed this last Wednesday night in H 25 ICC. Any other spell works as usual, but I could flay to my hearts content with no stacking effect. It may be related to flay no longer proccing DFO.

I can reforge my double haste trinks back to haste and be around 1500, what did you need tested exactly?

With shadowform and darkness, I tested 1256 haste (38.30% tooltip, 49.57% with talents) and had 7 ticks, and 1278 haste (38.98% tooltip, 50.3% talented) with 8 ticks. I couldn't narrow it down any closer without regemming to lesser quality gems, but that's a pretty narrow gap that seems to agree with 50% haste (1269 rating) being the cutoff point.

i am new to shadow priest so dont full understand how the tick calculation works for dots.
also can we abreviate MB with orb procs to MB0, MB1, etc, where the number is the amount of orbs present on cast?

as stated there is a dps increase from sin and punishment, and from the dps gain via MB due to orb procs.

the probability that a 1 orb will proc during a MF should be:
p= 1(3*1)*(0.18*1)*(1-0.18) ^(3-1) = ~36%
the probability 2 orbs will proc is ~8%
and 3 orbs is 0.5%

using your numbers and assuming 0 orbs are present on cast MF should be ~723dps more than you calculated (based only on dps from orb proc chance)
~700dps for 1 orb present on cast
~486dps for 2 orbs present on cast
and 0dps for 3 orbs present

not only this but the goal is maximum dps so there are further calculations needed. casting MB before 3 orbs have proced is a dps decrease for MB (i.e. MB is ~4000dps and MB3 is ~8000dps, using your numbers). the question is then does delaying until MB3 outweight the dps lose from using MF when MB is higher dps than MF.


Shadowy Apparition
I think the basic concensus on the rotation may be slightly off due to the increase chance you can have of procing a shadowy apparition when moving while casting instants.
The actual dps calculations for this are too complicated for me so i'll stick to an attempt and proc chance calculations.

Over 18 sec my SW: P ticks 8 times (tick every 2.25 secs). I have assumed over 24 sec period (DP duration) it will only proc 10 times (rounding down).
I am using a 24sec period assuming DP will be refreshed within that time and there is a 100% uptime on SW: P
GCD is 1.5 sec (?), or 66% the time of a SW: P tick.

chance shadowy apparition will not proc
not moving at all:
0.88^10 = ~28%
moving for 1 GCD (i.e. DP refresh):
(0.88^9)*(0.28*0.66 + 0.88*0.33) = 0.88^9*0.4752 = ~15%
moving for 2 GCD in a row (1 SW: P tick definitely occurs withing the movement):
0.88^9*0.28^1 = ~8%
moving for 1GCD seperate and 2GCD's in a row with 24 sec period:
0.88^8*0.28*0.475 = 4.7%
(edit: changed the proc chances to correct values)

I personally have been playing around with rotation (moving on every instant) - SW: P, DP, VT, etc
then SW: D only when i refresh DP. not sure this is actually a dps increase.
is the improved DP hit greater than SW: D at more than 25%hp?

really i hope this math isnt too horrible can someone more skilled do it?