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Old 01/29/11, 12:49 PM   #331
biche
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Priest
 
Dunemaul
Feel free to remove- no longer relevant in new patch.

Last edited by biche : 02/09/11 at 7:25 PM.

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Old 01/29/11, 2:07 PM   #332
Genzen
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Priest
 
Uldum
I have a question about Power Word: Shield, regarding the upcoming changes.

From a tank-healing perspective, will the buff to its absorbs and the increase to its mana cost make it something I'll want to maintain on the tank at all times, or will it still be something just to use for Rapture?

See, I'm mainly a tank healer, and I'm planning on making two specs - one for when the tank damage is enough to require most of my attention (Cho'gall style fights), and one where the tank damage is pretty tame, where I can spec more towards raid-healing (like Atramedes or V&T). If PW:S should be maintained on the tank at all times, I'll take two points in SoS, but if it's still a bad spell that's only real use is for Rapture, then I'll just use one point in it.

Thanks in advance!

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Old 01/29/11, 2:50 PM   #333
Averu
Glass Joe
 
Troll Priest
 
Blade's Edge (EU)
Originally Posted by Dotcash View Post
Seeing as posting three sets of gear straight in this box would be quite annoying, I've got a fairly easy to understand picture of an excel worksheet I made, detailing where to get the desired pieces. Ignore the bold-ing, those just happen to be the ones I've already gotten. http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3245/picture8tt.png
I took a look at your list and noticed some drawbacks in your mastery gearset. [Wyrmbreaker's Amulet] > [Lightning Flash Pendant]. Or are you saying that mastery is better than spirit? And again how can [Mandala of Stirring Patterns] be better than [Tyrande's Favorite Doll]? With [Heartbound Tome] and [Scepter of Ice] the difference is 13 mastery and 7 spirit. Which is realy better? Can you tell me your reasoning with all these item choices?

Last edited by Averu : 01/30/11 at 7:38 AM.

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Old 01/29/11, 3:17 PM   #334
Sinndir
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Priest
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by Scarla View Post
I'm curious if any new theorycrafting has been done regarding the new version of Surge of Light for disc. It seems to me like it will be well worth taking, and the inclusion of smite makes it even more attractive for disc than for holy. The problem that I see is that it limits you to 31 points in the disc tree and none in shadow, if you are taking Inspiration as well. Will it be worth sacrificing talents such as Darkness, Renewed Hope, Strength of Soul, and/or Train of Thought to take the new SoL?
Strength of Soul is an easy talent drop. You'll find yourself casting heal less and less in raiding environments as your gear grows to be able to handle Greater Heals in between your shields, PoM, Penance and PoH. Heal is great for filler when there is very little damage going around and you'd like to keep up some HPS into the tank or try to keep inspiration rolling, but the reduced cooldown on weakened soul just isn't that good.

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Old 01/29/11, 10:43 PM   #335
Barlow
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Eredar (EU)
Originally Posted by Genzen View Post
From a tank-healing perspective, will the buff to its absorbs and the increase to its mana cost make it something I'll want to maintain on the tank at all times, or will it still be something just to use for Rapture
PWS will be your most mana-efficient Single Target Heal. You'll not only keep it on CD on the tank, you'll most likely be using GH or FH to reduce the Weakened Soul debuff in Order to apply PWS more often.

Originally Posted by Sinndir View Post
Strength of Soul is an easy talent drop. You'll find yourself casting heal less and less in raiding environments as your gear grows to be able to handle Greater Heals in between your shields, PoM, Penance and PoH. Heal is great for filler when there is very little damage going around and you'd like to keep up some HPS into the tank or try to keep inspiration rolling, but the reduced cooldown on weakened soul just isn't that good.
With the Patch SoS will reduce the Weakened Soul Debuff with FH and GH, too. Since GH also decreases the CD of IF (with ToT) I assume GH could outperform Heal HpS- and HpM-wise, if IF is used on CD. Did anybody do some theorycrafting on that?

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Old 01/30/11, 2:00 AM   #336
Dotcash
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Averu View Post
I took a look at your list and noticed some drawbacks in your mastery gearset. [Wyrmbreaker's Amulet] > [Lightning Flash Pendant]. Or are you saying that mastery is better than spirit? And agen how can [Mandala of Stirring Patterns] be better than [Tyrande's Favorite Doll]? With [Heartbound Tome] and [Scepter of Ice] the difference is 13 mastery and 7 spirit. Witch is realy better? Can you tell me your reasoning with all theese item choices?
It was more or less a list regarding making sets of gear depending on what the fight calls for, and what items to aim for to get those favorable stats. Yes Heartbound Tome may not be ideal point per point depending on your stat values, but it's close enough that I find the differences in 13 mastery and 7 spirit trivial.
Also, the WH is not only easy to get, but also I don't know about you, but with mana regen management through fiend, HoH, Rapture, etc I believe the loss in 70 spirit is again trivial to the gain of having a large amount of mastery on that piece, without having to reforge your crit piece. I don't see those few stat point differences in those couple areas is worth worrying about at all, or at least it has not been for me.

Also, regarding the talk about the Baradin's Wardens trinket, using it sacrifices spirit you would get instead for a great mastery proc, which will greatly help more the mana gains of spirit during high damage-heavy movement fights that call for heavy shield usage. Our mana-recoup strategies + resto shaman, again, lessens the need for that spirit.

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Old 01/30/11, 9:20 AM   #337
Bluesparks
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Tanaris
Originally Posted by Barlow View Post
PWS will be your most mana-efficient Single Target Heal. You'll not only keep it on CD on the tank, you'll most likely be using GH or FH to reduce the Weakened Soul debuff in Order to apply PWS more often.
Unless I missed something, SoS only reduces Weakened Soul, not Rapture's ICD, but given the buff to PW:S's absorption amount, it's possible that the shield won't actually be absorbed until Rapture's ICD is over. Personally, I wouldn't risk missing it just to get another shield up, especially given the increased mana cost.

The other thing with SoS that makes me wonder a bit is that it directly conflicts with Renewed Hope; less uptime on WS means less uptime of +10% crit, and with the risks you're already taking by shielding before the Rapture ICD is up, it seems unlikely that SoS Shield spam on a tank will be optimal. SoS definitely seems like more of a PvP talent, where shielding someone more often means a better chance of them surviving, even if you miss out on a Rapture proc here and there.

EDIT: Never mind, I forgot that +10% crit from Renewed Hope also applies to targets with Grace.

Last edited by Bluesparks : 01/30/11 at 5:16 PM.

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Old 01/30/11, 6:01 PM   #338
Jonny_Monroe
Don Flamenco
 
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Draenei Priest
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Originally Posted by Bluesparks View Post
Unless I missed something, SoS only reduces Weakened Soul, not Rapture's ICD, but given the buff to PW:S's absorption amount, it's possible that the shield won't actually be absorbed until Rapture's ICD is over. Personally, I wouldn't risk missing it just to get another shield up, especially given the increased mana cost.

The other thing with SoS that makes me wonder a bit is that it directly conflicts with Renewed Hope; less uptime on WS means less uptime of +10% crit, and with the risks you're already taking by shielding before the Rapture ICD is up, it seems unlikely that SoS Shield spam on a tank will be optimal. SoS definitely seems like more of a PvP talent, where shielding someone more often means a better chance of them surviving, even if you miss out on a Rapture proc here and there.

EDIT: Never mind, I forgot that +10% crit from Renewed Hope also applies to targets with Grace.
The problem I see with SoS is it's conflict with rapture. Without a mod to track rapture's ICD you could end up stepping on it's toes:

Currently, you cast PW:S, it has up to 3 seconds to break (pretty reliable on a tank),
15 seconds later you can cast a new one with a pretty safe bet rapture is off cooldown for when it breaks (which could be instantly).
Using SoS without a rapture ICD tracker could result in you shielding the target once every 12 seconds, which would result in roughly 50% of your shields not giving rapture due to the irregularity between the shield breaking. The resultant effective time between rapture procs is 24 seconds. This is a horrible reduction in mana returns from rapture.

Effectively, if the only person you're shielding is the tank then you either sacrifice mana returns from Rapture by shielding as frequently as possible with SoS, or run a Rapture ICD mod and shield the tank 12 seconds after each shield breaks, which will probably work out close to 14-15 seconds between shields anyway. Alternatively, you could start blanket shielding in fights where damage is liberally spread out (nef P2, for example), your mana will drain fast but you'll get the most out of Rapture.

OMNOMNOM.

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Old 01/30/11, 7:40 PM   #339
Barlow
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Eredar (EU)
Actually PW:S is going to be the best HpM and HpS heal we will have with the changes. So we won't just use it for "free raptures" every now and then. In Phases like the Nefarian 2 Phase PWS should really shine, since it's not going produce a high overheal plus you don't have the PoH problem, not having 5 man groups in range and losing further efficiency due to overwriting the Glyph heal.

I tried some rough number crunching on the new Renew, especially since we will most likely be running with IW up, when assigned to raid heal. Glyphed and skilled it should land in the 8 HpM area when reaching the haste softcap for Renew6.

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Old 01/31/11, 4:50 AM   #340
Neferneith
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Kirin Tor (EU)
To calculate the number of ticks for a given haste:
Int[Base # Ticks * (1+ Haste *.01) + 0.5]
I don't quite get the +0.5 in this formula. Does it mean that if you have enough time for 4.7 ticks of renew you'll effectively get 5 ticks and renew will last more than twelve seconds?

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Old 01/31/11, 10:57 AM   #341
tedv
Observation: I am awesome
 
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Goblin Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
I've also found shield spamming to be very effective at healing some heroic fights, like Maloriak. And of course the sub-20% phase for Chimeron, shield spam is the only healing anyone can do. Most fights I find that there's some section of the fight where you want to cast 2 to 5 shields in a row, then go back to your normal healing routine. So I've been pretty happy with all the shield enhancement talents. I'm actually considered building a gear set specifically for shield fights that focuses on spirit + mastery (in contrast to spirit + crit for regular healing or spirit + haste for smite).

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Old 01/31/11, 11:32 AM   #342
kondec
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Nathrezim (EU)
Originally Posted by Neferneith View Post
I don't quite get the +0.5 in this formula. Does it mean that if you have enough time for 4.7 ticks of renew you'll effectively get 5 ticks and renew will last more than twelve seconds?

You are right, tick-based spells which scale with haste get rounded up if they are hasted above a value of x.5 total ticks. In addition, the overall ticking time will get adjusted, so not many Renews are actually running exactly 12 seconds.
This rule also applies to our Hymns, I did plenty of testing about this on the PTR.

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Old 02/02/11, 4:21 PM   #343
Snipeheals
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Boulderfist
ditching spirit

I dont know why 13 pages of maximizing disc discussion theres never been the discussion of replacing spirit for every other stat.

In 80% epic gear with Evangelism, Tide, Rapture, Blood elf racial,. Reforging ALL spirit to haste>crit>mastery going all out Throughput Ive still been swimming neck deep in mana to the point I dont have to hymm or fiend on any encounter unless the raid calls for it.

Even being aggressive with poh, mana is still so abundent because Tide, Evangelism that Ive been considering grabbing mage/warlock gear with 0 spirit just for throughput because I feel sitting at 50-60+ percent mana for a majority of fights is a waste.

Last edited by Snipeheals : 02/02/11 at 4:27 PM.

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Old 02/02/11, 4:40 PM   #344
Dotcash
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Snipeheals View Post
I dont know why 13 pages of maximizing disc discussion theres never been the discussion of replacing spirit for every other stat.

In 80% epic gear with Evangelism, Tide, Rapture, Blood elf racial,. Reforging ALL spirit to haste>crit>mastery going all out Throughput Ive still been swimming neck deep in mana to the point I dont have to hymm or fiend on any encounter unless the raid calls for it.

Even being aggressive with poh, mana is still so abundent because Tide, Evangelism that Ive been considering grabbing mage/warlock gear with 0 spirit just for throughput because I feel sitting at 50-60+ percent mana for a majority of fights is a waste.
I may press my buttons a little harder than the average joe, but for me, and from what I hear of every good raiding guild, healers who are doing their job on progression content are popping mana potions every attempt. This is after using shadowfiend, hymn, etc. If you are sitting with 50% mana throughout a fight, it is either because your group's dps overgear the fight thus reducing the boss time, or other healers are carrying you, which isn't necessarily a bad thing or something you can help.

Another issue is that for a smite only fight, such as halfus, or a smite heavy fight, mastery is all but a wasted stat. For PW:S spam fights, haste is a wasted stat. I could potentially see the case of having haste + crit gear for the first case and mastery + crit gear for the second, but then again crit scales so poorly, I can hardly see the reason to try to maximize it at the expense of mana regeneration. Any thoughts?

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Old 02/02/11, 5:50 PM   #345
CaseyTheRetard
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Snipeheals View Post
Even being aggressive with poh, mana is still so abundent because Tide, Evangelism that Ive been considering grabbing mage/warlock gear with 0 spirit just for throughput because I feel sitting at 50-60+ percent mana for a majority of fights is a waste.
You are running normal modes with 7 healers - I'm not surprised you have an excess of mana. Go ahead and get that mage/warlock gear, and spec shadow.


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