Cataclysm Holy Priest Compendium - Page 8

SpecialFavorite · 12/25/10, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kashir

Yes, the rating requirements are for gear bonuses.

Rolling Renew with Chakra certainly does reduce the importance of the haste "cap" values. It doesn't make it entirely irrelevant; there will always be cases where you'll want to Renew other people or it will fall off the tank, and you almost certainly won't be on tank healing duty for your entire healing career.

Aside from Renew ticks, there's no "cap" for Haste anymore. You won't be hitting the GCD for the forseeable future (and even then, most of our current heavily used spells are > 1.5s in cast time anyway).

So it sounds like currently, at this point in the expansion, the ideal goal would be to reach the 1601.1 Haste rating purely from gear stats only. That way, you could put 3 talent points into Twin Disciplines and still have the 5 ticks of renew. The best possible combination would be to get the 1601.1 without gemming any haste so that the gem slots could be used for Intellect or Spirit.

Does this sound correct? I should prioritize reforging into haste and getting haste on my gear until I reach 1601.1, as long as I have Spirit as a secondary stat on all my gear, and then I can start adding more mastery as long as I maintain that 5th tick of renew.

Edit: I wasn't sure if 1601.1 would be possible with the current gear but doing a quick calculation, if you are wearing mostly 359 (Normal mode raid gear) it is possible to have at least 1994 haste rating not counting any enchants, gems, reforging, procs, or trinkets.

Sinndir · 12/25/10, 2:11 PM

That way, you could put 3 talent points into Twin Disciplines and still have the 5 ticks of renew.

Where did you have those talent points before? Twin disciplines should always be taken, in my opinion.

Once again, I also think that Renew is getting too much loving from the community here. PoH, PoM, CoH all trump renew in AoE situations and as mentioned already while in single target chakra stance the renew rolls so the extra ticks aren't that important.

I find myself rarely casting it and our raiding holy priest rarely does as well, all the while putting up good throughput numbers.

Removing the glyph and talent points of renew sure frees up lots of room to grab a multitude of other situational talents or to have some fresh glyphs (PoH, Lightwell, GS)

Do the renew ticks proc echo of light mastery or is it only the divine touch instant portion?

SpecialFavorite · 12/25/10, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sinndir

Where did you have those talent points before? Twin disciplines should always be taken, in my opinion.

Once again, I also think that Renew is getting too much loving from the community here. PoH, PoM, CoH all trump renew in AoE situations and as mentioned already while in single target chakra stance the renew rolls so the extra ticks aren't that important.

I find myself rarely casting it and our raiding holy priest rarely does as well, all the while putting up good throughput numbers.

Removing the glyph and talent points of renew sure frees up lots of room to grab a multitude of other situational talents or to have some fresh glyphs (PoH, Lightwell, GS)

Do the renew ticks proc echo of light mastery or is it only the divine touch instant portion?

I know for sure that it is only the instant heal from renew that procs Echo of Light. While Renew is not as useful as it used to be, I am not ready to give up on it yet. It has been one of my biggest throughput spells since Vanilla and I think it still useful.

To answer your question, I have my 3 talent points in Darkness to give me that extra Haste boost but from looking at T11 gear, it looks like reaching the 1601.1 haste rating mark will be rather simple and reaching the 6 tick mark for Renew will be very hard so until more tiers of gear come out, there won't be much purpose for having Darkness anymore.

Edit: All that being said, after running a 5 man heroic last night I check my overall healing and my renew for the instance only account for 9% of my overall healing. I forgot to check my renew for the boss fights and I don't know how it will hold up in raids. In WotLK, renew accounted for 20%+ usually.

napsilan · 12/25/10, 6:30 PM

In 5 mans, renew is usually my 2nd or 3rd heal because I tend to abuse the hell out of the chakra refresh. Obviously I keep it on the tank but I also use it to heal dps who get below 50% or so, just using a heal every 10 seconds or so to refresh it.

It does annoy me that renew doesn't benefit from mastery at all, except for divine touch. Same with PoM, even more so because it is an instant heal.

steveneaster · 12/25/10, 9:41 PM

Using the spreadsheet posted in the OP, I calculated that renew is my best single target heal with POH Chakra and Inner Will up, both in HPCT and HPM. I use it in lieu of flash/greater heals to pick up lower health players in between POH, POM, and Circle (which I've finally found the niche for in raids). I wouldn't say its my top ability, but its important. The haste I'm acquiring to get that 1180 (with 3/3 darkness) Only helps my bread and butter PoH (my number one contributer).

teiglin · 12/26/10, 5:49 AM

Originally Posted by Kashir

Rolling Renew with Chakra certainly does reduce the importance of the haste "cap" values. It doesn't make it entirely irrelevant; there will always be cases where you'll want to Renew other people or it will fall off the tank, and you almost certainly won't be on tank healing duty for your entire healing career.

Since I never (and I assume no one else does either) time my heals to coincide with renew ticks, the total time on a refreshed renew is pretty random and really doesn't benefit in any particular way from haste plateaus. Obviously renews that are never refreshed via chakra will still have benefit form haste breakpoints.

As an feature of rolling renews I've noticed is that serenity heals seem to refresh renew to 15-17 seconds--presumably depending on the exact tick time--instead of the base 12. I haven't done extensive testing on it or seen any pots on the subject, so I was wondering if the mechanic is at all understood by the EJ community or if some sort of testing would be meaningful, and if so, what kind.

Bingeling · 12/26/10, 2:14 PM

In heroics, I do the best I can to refresh renew with heal, as that is the cheapest way to refresh it. I only see timers for renew when they are less than 10 seconds, but I have noticed that a refreshed renew usually last longer than one that has just been cast.

It is very easy to notice on occasional damage to dps. One dps gets some damage, and I throw a renew. Some 8s later I cast a heal on that dps, in order to refresh renew (and to heal more). Just afterwards I put renew on another dps that has taken damage. The counter (sub 10 second) always appear first on the newly cast renew, even if it is cast after the heal that refreshed the original one. So the heal usually extends duration of quite a few seconds beyond the normal 12s of renew. Your estimate of 15s (or bit more) seems reasonable.

Also, if tank damage is light and a couple of dps are low on health, the cheap way to pick them up is to renew all three, and rotate heal between them. Refresh by heal is half the cost of the renew itself (and heals on its own).

Another matter is that if I am ever in doubt if a heal is cast early enough to refresh the renew, the renew will drop off. The counter on my vuhdo seems a bit late, so I try to cast the refresher heal when there is 4-5s left.

Starfire · 12/26/10, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Bingeling

Also, if tank damage is light and a couple of dps are low on health, the cheap way to pick them up is to renew all three, and rotate heal between them. Refresh by heal is half the cost of the renew itself (and heals on its own).

If multiple dps need healing, why not just cast Prayer of Healing? If you need to heal at least 3 people, it's definitely better.

Certainly, there are situations when you can't, ie when you need to move, but in those same situations you can't stand around casting "Heal" either. Additional benefit of the Prayer of Healing applying the 6 second HoT from the glyph and of course the Holy Mastery.

SpecialFavorite · 12/26/10, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by Starfire

If multiple dps need healing, why not just cast Prayer of Healing? If you need to heal at least 3 people, it's definitely better.

Certainly, there are situations when you can't, ie when you need to move, but in those same situations you can't stand around casting "Heal" either. Additional benefit of the Prayer of Healing applying the 6 second HoT from the glyph and of course the Holy Mastery.

I agree with you that I would normally just cast Prayer of Healing if 3 or more people are hurt but correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't think Holy Mastery (Echo of Light) would proc from Prayer of Healing? It says direct healing spells which I took to mean single target heals (excluding Prayer of Mending).

Starfire · 12/26/10, 5:18 PM

In Blizzard-speak, things are usually categorized as either "direct" or "periodic". Periodic refers to anything that is channeled and/or associated with some sort of buff or debuff (e.g. HoT or DoT). Anything that is not periodic is largely considered direct. There might be exceptions, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Holy Nova, Prayer of Healing and Circle of Healing are all 'direct" and all give Echo of Light; however Divine Hymn is channeled and thus does not. Similarly, without the talent for the instant heal, Renew is a periodic buff and does not give Echo of Light.

Neara · 12/27/10, 5:55 AM

Originally Posted by Starfire

In Blizzard-speak, things are usually categorized as either "direct" or "periodic". Periodic refers to anything that is channeled and/or associated with some sort of buff or debuff (e.g. HoT or DoT). Anything that is not periodic is largely considered direct. There might be exceptions, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Holy Nova, Prayer of Healing and Circle of Healing are all 'direct" and all give Echo of Light; however Divine Hymn is channeled and thus does not. Similarly, without the talent for the instant heal, Renew is a periodic buff and does not give Echo of Light.

Blizz doesn't seem to be very clear at which point and for which use a spell is direct or something else.

Direct healing spells trigger Echo of Light.
In Chakra: Serenity direct healing spells should refresh renew.
So every spell that triggers Echo of Light should refresh renew. PoH, CoH and Holy Nova trigger echo of light but don't refresh renew.

Mconniff · 12/27/10, 12:44 PM

I have a question regarding "Mouseover Macro"

/cast [target=mouseover,exists]

Yes it works. On everyone but yourself, unless you mouseover your portrait.

Before Cata I was able to.

/target
/cast [target=mouseover,exists] [] Renew

Doesn't work anymore. So I took out the "/target" and the "[]" works only if you use your mouse on whatever you mouseover minus yourself. So if you keep the tank on focus or target and then just mouse over whoever needs it you're good. However my "target" isn't getting cured or healed unless I mouse over them in raid/party frame or character; before Cata I was able to. Minus myself... I still have to mouseover my portrait, I just cannot click somewhere and press the button to get healed. Yes "selfcast" is checked. I am using Shadowed UI.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I liked pressing a number or mouse hovering to heal or cure, but it would appear that my abilities have been cut in half.

The Wayward Priest

Neara · 12/27/10, 1:17 PM

you should also put in help
/cast [@mouseover,exists,help]
so the macro checks if the mouseover target is friendly. with your macro the macro would try to heal an enemy that might be under your mouse. of course he can't do that, but he will try it and not go to the [] part of the macro.

I use only /cast [@mouseover,exists,help][@player] macros,
as i have no need to heal my target, because i usually have the boss targeted. So if i have no friendly target under my mouse i heal/dispell/whatever myself

teiglin · 12/27/10, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by Neara

Blizz doesn't seem to be very clear at which point and for which use a spell is direct or something else.

Direct healing spells trigger Echo of Light.
In Chakra: Serenity direct healing spells should refresh renew.
So every spell that triggers Echo of Light should refresh renew. PoH, CoH and Holy Nova trigger echo of light but don't refresh renew.

Holy Word: Serenity and Binding Heal are also direct heals that don't refresh renew. I just consider it a tooltip bug with Chakra; the Serenity description should just read ".., and causes your Heal, Greater Heal, and Flash Heal to refresh..." as no other heal actually triggers the serenity effect. I ran a quick test of PoH crit to see if it benefits from Serenity as a "direct heal" should, and over 100 casts I had only 5% crit (9.3% character sheet crit and no crit-related procs):

I don't remember my statistics courses well enough to tell you how unlikely it is that I got 5 crits out of 100 if my crit rate were supposed to be 19%, but I'm sure it's pretty unlikely. Just for sanity, I did the same test with Heal:

Which is pretty close to the expected 19.3%. Frankly I'm too lazy to test the other spells that ought to benefit from Serenity based on the tooltip, but I'm betting that the same direct heals that don't refresh renew also don't benefit from the 10% crit on Chakra: Serenity.

The one item I was curious enough about to run a short test was Holy Word: Serenity, though I only did 25 casts:

Obviously 25 casts are hardly conclusive data, but at first blush, I'd guess tha HW:Serenity benefits from its own buff as well as the 10% from Chakra.

Glorah · 12/27/10, 2:19 PM

I am an officer of an Alliance raiding guild guild on Kargath. First, I should start my thanking all the folks who post here. I have learned a lot from these forums.

My specific question concerns holy healing in Cataclysm. We've been gearing up to restart 25 man raiding, but we have done a few ten-mans to see what the fights are like. And what we're seeing is that our holy priest, who is an experienced raider through previous expansions, can't keep up with the other healers. And the differences are not small: the holy priest is doing on the order of 60% what our shaman and druid do.

Looking at World of Logs (World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis) I see that priests are doing quite well thus far in Cataclysm. However, every priest in the top ranks seems to be Discipline.

What has been the experience of others so far? Can holy keep up?