Priest Healing Discussion: Cataclysm - Page 9

Tyrannon · 05/21/11, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Elimbras

In fact, POH / COH / POM all have better hps than your single target heals. Hence, for raid healing, you should not have the choice between better hps and better hpm spells, provided that your POH can be fully efficient.

On your example, don't forget that there is a nice midway solution for tank healing. Greater Heal is significantly more hps than heal, but only slightly worse hpm. Symmetrically, it is significantly more hpm than flash heal, but only slightly worse hps (this is more complicated if you take serependity into account). Unless your tank requires that healing right-now-or-I'll-die, it is usually better to use greater heal than flash, when you can. And if you take damage, use binding heal twice on the tank, and after that a hasted cheap greater heal (thanks to serependity) on the tank.

Thanks for that. Somehow i thought greater Heal was absolutely manainefficient.

It would be nice to get additional Tipps.

Starfire · 05/22/11, 3:02 AM

Originally Posted by CaseyTheRetard

Grid+<stuff>, Healbot, and Vuhdo all have exactly the same capabilities. They can be configured to look virtually identical as well. The only variation between them is how you go about performing configuration. Anyone who tells you that one is somehow better than the others is wrong. Let's not shit up the thread by starting a holy war over raidframes.

This really is the best answer and the correct one.

Grid and Vuhdo especially can pretty much do everything, the major difference is how you go about doing everything, coupled with the resources/bloat, etc.

On to the topic of Nefarian and magma, I highly recommend everyone who is doing the fight and having trouble and/or if you're doing it on Hardmode to get: Mirror of Broken Images - Item - World of Warcraft

Also, if you are doing it on Hardmode, just Pain Suppression or Guardian Spirit yourself if you have Explosive Cinders on the first one. The first one is usually the most brutal, since people have Magma stacks and what not. Shadowflame damage IS increased by Magma stacks as well (the tooltip does not state so, but check the logs).

UnholY_Prince · 05/22/11, 7:09 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrannon

Thanks for that. Somehow i thought greater Heal was absolutely manainefficient.

It would be nice to get additional Tipps.

Greater Heal should be your bread and butter.

For Nef make sure you're popping Sfiend in P1 when you hit 70%ish. Then when you get into P2 top everyone off initially, then get Renew on everyone and start rolling Heal on those w ho need it, making sure Renews don't fall off people who are ignored for 15+ seconds. Renew rolling with PoM everytime it expires and just spamming Heal will take you out of P2 around 50% mana or more.

Oestrus · 05/23/11, 3:48 PM

@ Oddbin:

Personally, I would let DPS have first dibs on either of those items. If it's been determined that a DPS player does not need them, then I would take them. But still only begrudgingly. I try to aim for spirit on everything I wear and if I don't have it immediately on there, then I take steps to re-forge it on to there.

If your mana is fine and you don't need more spirit, then take the crit from the helm and re-forge it into haste and leave the boots as is. If you do need spirit, take the crit from the helm and turn it into spirit and take the haste/mastery from the shoes and turn it into spirit.

It really depends on you and if you feel you're at a comfortable place with your regen.

Artemisian · 05/26/11, 9:18 PM

Yeah, after installing Grid + Clique together, I just couldn't get a hold of Grid. Clique was fantastic - loved the setup process, it was sublime. Grid's dependency on additional addons for what I consider core functionality threw me off ... an experienced Gridder could probably do what I want, but I found it easier to just return to Healbot

Pillars seem fine now, we killed Nef. Go us not failing.

Another question for all you fine theorycrafters with time to spare: TankSpot's guide for heroic Halfus said for discipline priests to Smite heal (obviously speccing Atonement) but that using Archangel was an HPS loss. I can't see how this makes sense, but I'm not a theorycrafter myself. Does anyone know how that works? I feel like one GCD in return for 5% mana and 15% healing buff could only be a good thing.

Vintoran · 05/27/11, 3:01 AM

First of all AA is off the global cooldown.
Second I'd guess that the tank spot guide was released before the Atonement nerf (not more than 30% of the Priest's maximum health before multipliers). Back then 5 Stacks Evangelism meant 20% more damage and thus healing, which is more than 15% more healing from AA. Mana is never an issue if you just Smite, so the 5% return is unimportant.

Nowadays the Atonement heal is capped, but you can still heal 15% more during AA, so it's better to use it on cooldown.
In addition the fight itsself got changed insofar as Halfus doesn't have the "take more damage" debuff from start on, but gains a much higher one once each Drake dies. I haven't really done the math, but my gut feeling is that you have to kill two Drakes before Smite (and now Holy Fire) spam becomes better than normal tank healing and at that point the healing is trivial anyway. It's still a nice trick to finish the fight when you blew all your mana on the tanks earlier though.

Reyniel · 06/07/11, 3:19 PM

Not alot has been said about how to handle dispels on Sinestra. Hell not a lot has been said about Sinestra. I'm copy pasting a post I made on our guild forum. I hope someone finds it useful.

WW = Wrack Wave. The number indicates the wave by the amount of wracks that are out.

Two dispels gives us max healing between the 20-second breaths. A secondary dispel to help during Wrack Waves (WW) 8 and 16. It's important to watch for the new wrack and not dispel that early.

We'll use CDs to extend WW1 and one person from WW2.

WW1
00-14 seconds -- Keep topped off.
14-15 seconds -- Personal CD (if they last 10-12 seconds) and Hand of Sacrifice.
18-19 seconds -- AMS and Dispersion (they last 5 and 6 seconds so we hold them later).
22-23 seconds -- Dispel (We need to make sure we dispel while the CD is active).

WW2
00-09 seconds -- Topped off.
10 seconds -- Personal CD.
13 seconds -- Dispel WW2.1.
16 seconds -- Dispel WW2.2. Have the player with the best mitigation hold their wrack the longest.*

WW4
Now you have 3-4 seconds between the halves of WW4.

WW4.1
00-08 seconds -- Topped off.
9 seconds -- Dispel player WW4.1.1
10 seconds -- Dispel players WW4.1.2
13 seconds -- Dispel player WW4.2.1 (this should be when their debuff is at 8)
14 seconds -- Dispel player WW4.2.2 (this should be when their debuff is at 9)

WW8/WW16 Dispel whenever anyone is at 8 seconds or above...

A lot of credit goes to Greentouched from <Intent> on Kel'Thuzad. I took his premise and tailored it to our attempts. Thank you Greentouched.

♦ arison · 06/08/11, 3:26 AM

I've updated the Priest spreadsheet to include settings to enable 2x crits and a few other tweaks. Enjoy!

Cataclysm Healing Priest Theorycrafting Spreadsheet v 1.5.xls

♦ arison · 06/11/11, 7:32 PM

Version 1.6 is now available, with numerous fixes from Lokum and some minor other fixes.

In terms of the effect for 4.2's change to crit for disc -- even with a minimal crit rating (224 rating, but about 17-18% once raid buffed), it's around an 8% boost to PoH spam, 2% to shield spamming, and around a 12% boost to tank-like healing (a few shields, penance, gheal/flash, etc).

Cataclysm Healing Priest Theorycrafting Spreadsheet v 1.6.xls

MainIdentity · 06/15/11, 9:27 AM

a) I noticed that Spreadsheet with the option 'Shield-Spam' doesnt consider BT. As far as i know the gcd is shortened with the 14% haste buff (Or am i wrong at this point ?)

b) I was wondering which specc (holy/disc) we should use in firelands. Well, ofc it depends on the setup but i think that disc > holy in terms of group healing. I was really stunned when i noticed that Holy AOE healing (PoH as filler ,on cd PoM,on cd CoH,on cd LW) has less output then disc AOE healing (filler before PoH: Shield,on cd but only after shield: PoM, PoH as filler(Looks like: S-PoM-PoH-S-PoH-S-PoH-S-PoM-PoH... depending on the haste value)). Maybe someone could do some Maths on this because i think i have failed at some point.

c) Does crit become the best stat as disc ? It's less Mana exhausting then haste, you can fullfill every role (singel target/group heal). The only disadvantage is that it doesnt boost shields. (Referring to the values of the spreadsheet above)
(Maybe c) should be posted in the disc thread but wasn't sure where to post it.)

Anyway, i am really interested in your opinion(s).

Ps: Yeah first Post

♦ arison · 06/15/11, 12:28 PM

Yes, currently BT isn't factored in at all in the spreadsheet; it's one of the highest priority bugfixes. The GCD is, of course, reduced.

As to which stat is "best" as disc, it depends on what you're doing. Try different rotations in the spreadsheet and mash "recalculate" when you change rotations to see. I don't think crit is ever best, but sometimes haste is (POH spam, of course, and triage, and maybe disc direct). Depends on your current gear and such. There is no one-size-fits-all approach, but most disc priests will continue stacking mastery because it affects PW:S which is a tremendously powerful spell.

cydus · 06/15/11, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by MainIdentity

a) I noticed that Spreadsheet with the option 'Shield-Spam' doesnt consider BT. As far as i know the gcd is shortened with the 14% haste buff (Or am i wrong at this point ?)

b) I was wondering which specc (holy/disc) we should use in firelands. Well, ofc it depends on the setup but i think that disc > holy in terms of group healing. I was really stunned when i noticed that Holy AOE healing (PoH as filler ,on cd PoM,on cd CoH,on cd LW) has less output then disc AOE healing (filler before PoH: Shield,on cd but only after shield: PoM, PoH as filler(Looks like: S-PoM-PoH-S-PoH-S-PoH-S-PoM-PoH... depending on the haste value)). Maybe someone could do some Maths on this because i think i have failed at some point.

c) Does crit become the best stat as disc ? It's less Mana exhausting then haste, you can fullfill every role (singel target/group heal). The only disadvantage is that it doesnt boost shields. (Referring to the values of the spreadsheet above)
(Maybe c) should be posted in the disc thread but wasn't sure where to post it.)

Anyway, i am really interested in your opinion(s).

Ps: Yeah first Post

The problem with spamming poh as a disc priest is that usually on early progression and most cata bosses you have to do quite a bit of movement throughout the fight, pw:s is great because you can spam it while moving and weave it into your poh heavily depending on the fight. If the raid doesn't have another disc priest the shields are also a really powerful way to add effective health to everyones pools.

As a disc especially I wouldn't focus on crit because of the fact that you will still be doing shields like crazy, they're just trying to make crit a more relevant stat for healers in general.

napsilan · 06/22/11, 3:10 PM

Spreadsheet 1.6 bug:
Can't put 2 points in Divine Touch and Holy Concentration

♦ arison · 06/25/11, 1:50 PM

Priest Spreadsheet v1.7 is now available, with a number of fixes from serrif and lokum. Holy Fire is now supported, and various calculations/fields should be more accurate (particularly stat weights based on Intellect, and most especially for disc, as the 5% from Mysticism and 15% from the disc talent spec weren't factored in properly).

Cataclysm Healing Priest Theorycrafting Spreadsheet v 1.7.xls

Sissylala · 06/26/11, 10:07 AM

Thanks for keeping this updated, it's a great spreadsheet. There is a few bugs in 1.7 in the Talents and Buffs tab

Cannot put 2 points in Divine Touch or Holy Concentration, you can also put two points into Lightwell.