Shadow Priest PVE Guide (4.3 Updated) - Page 3

UnholY_Prince · 07/24/11, 3:53 AM

Just look at your damage breakdown in WoL and calculate wha'ts more of a DPS drop, halving your SW

damage, taking 10% off your Mind Flay damage, or 10% off your SW: P damage. It'll depend on the fight and how long the execute phase is, how much you can multiDoT, etc. On Shannox or Bael Heroic where you're on one target SW: D glyph will come out to more. On Razor/Beth/Ryho where you can Dot multiple mobs and/or get a benefit from Haste, SW: P will come out to more.

Szeretlek · 07/24/11, 3:54 AM

You are so lazy.
Run Simcraft next time.

Priest_Shadow_T12H profile, 10000 iterations, patchwerk style.
With standard set of glyphs: 35913
W/o SWD: 35136
W/o MF: 35212
W/o SWP: 35709

But I dont trust that results, because SimCraft gives very low numbers for SWD DPET w/o SWD glyph (bug of course) on execution phase (9k noncrit, 19k crit) and thats why dps goes down so massive.

onceler21 · 07/24/11, 5:22 AM

If you're glyphing dispersion for Baleroc (so you can use it for torments), replace SW: D glyph, without a doubt. You will have the Tormented debuff most of the time (500% increased shadow damage taken, or 250% on normal mode), which makes SW: D suicide.

I can't think of any other fights you'd want to glyph dispersion for.

Turrin · 07/25/11, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by onceler21

If you're glyphing dispersion for Baleroc (so you can use it for torments), replace SW: D glyph, without a doubt. You will have the Tormented debuff most of the time (500% increased shadow damage taken, or 250% on normal mode), which makes SW: D suicide.

I can't think of any other fights you'd want to glyph dispersion for.

Or use your Mirror of Broken Images and forget about glyphing Dispersion, at least for normal mode.

UnholY_Prince · 07/25/11, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by Turrin

Or use your Mirror of Broken Images and forget about glyphing Dispersion, at least for normal mode.

He was talking about Heroic. You don't need to do anything special in Normal. In Heroic Spreists Dispersing Torment to high stacks is essential for healers to keep up with the damage.

CaseyTheRetard · 07/25/11, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by Szeretlek

But I dont trust that results, because SimCraft gives very low numbers for SWD DPET w/o SWD glyph (bug of course) on execution phase (9k noncrit, 19k crit) and thats why dps goes down so massive.

Thanks for the bug report; this is fixed and will go live with the next release of SimC. To tide you over:

Profile	DPS	Delta
Base	34929	0
-SWD	34653	276
-SWP	34730	199
-MF	34260	669

bologne · 07/28/11, 6:45 PM

Please forgive me if this is a question rather pertaining to the simple questions / answer thread, however I believe that if it is the case, this should be mentioned in the main guide.

If you have a mastery proc such as [Theralion's Mirror], upon proccing this and then gaining ES, should you refresh your dots? If so, should you also refresh SWP or does the refresh from mind flay count?

Following this same logic, if you start the fight with DoTs, and then gain ES, should you then refresh your dots once more, or does this automatically update the damage? The reason for asking is because upon reading the DoT mechanics in the balance druid thread, it specifically says that DoTs take any damage buffs when cast, and do not update unless refreshed.

Regards

Wyred · 07/29/11, 9:21 AM

If you have a mastery proc such as Theralion's Mirror, upon proccing this and then gaining ES, should you refresh your dots?

SW: P will refresh with mindflay, and so should not be considered. Imp. DP has a higher DPET than mindflay, so should always be refreshed with any proc such as power torrent or revelation immediately. VT it's a case-by-case basis as to when it will become a dps gain to refresh early.

bologne · 07/29/11, 10:18 AM

How about ES? If you apply DoTs at the beginning of a fight, and then 5 seconds down the line get a shadow orb allowing ES, should you also refresh your DP (and VT?) then as well, or do they update with ES?

If so, ES seems a very strange mastery mechanic forcing you to refresh spells.

Kilee · 08/03/11, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Arphastas

shadowpriest.com • View topic - Why Haste Plateaus Don't Exist

Read that, haste plateaus don't exist, just stick with your normal gearing.

Since the graph was made by me, I'd like a chance to explain it and why I feel haste plateaus do exist. The graph came from the work that was done in this thread on shadowpriest:

shadowpriest.com • View topic - Graph of stats as gear progresses (without DI).

There are definate visual plateaus for haste, and it's quite easy to find them and recreate them in simulationcraft.

Without DI:

After 1602 haste and 300 before 2589
After 2589 and 300 before 3202

With DI:

After 1602 haste and 300 before 2141
After 2141 and before 3202

The plateaus are harder to see with DI, and the stats tend to bleed together more with DI than without, but they do exist and they are there.

As for the stickied post that you referenced, "Why Haste Plateus Don't Exist", that thread is 8 months old and has shown very little data or research to back up its claims. And if you read the entire thread you can see there's quite a bit of debate as to whether the thread's descriptions are even accurate. The thread has a sliver of truth to it - it is worth roughly 40-50 intellect to reach past each plateau, and because of that you want to continue to stack haste as long as you can reach the next plateau. If you cannot reach the next one, however, you generally can get a bit higher dps by backing up to just above the highest one that you can reach.

I can take just about any set of gear you give me and demonstrate this phenomenon if you need examples. In any case I would be interested to read counter-views and further research on this topic.

winst · 08/06/11, 9:45 AM

Assuming all dots are up and do not need refreshing, is there a point at which just waiting for ~0.5 seconds (particularly with 4 part T12 bonus) when MB is just about to come off cooldown would be a DPS increase over casting MF for one tick?

Such that the GCD from casting MF as normal filler would delay the MB for a fraction of a second, obviously.

Apologies if this is already a DPS increase, I'm still of the school of thought that 'time spent not casting is lost dps and that is the end of that'.

Arphastas · 08/07/11, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by winst

Assuming all dots are up and do not need refreshing, is there a point at which just waiting for ~0.5 seconds (particularly with 4 part T12 bonus) when MB is just about to come off cooldown would be a DPS increase over casting MF for one tick?

Such that the GCD from casting MF as normal filler would delay the MB for a fraction of a second, obviously.

Apologies if this is already a DPS increase, I'm still of the school of thought that 'time spent not casting is lost dps and that is the end of that'.

Yes, I end up doing this a lot, especially with 4pc t12 MB hits like a mack truck, anytime you can use it do it.

♦ Carebare · 08/09/11, 11:12 AM

I just chucked around 20 posts from this thread. Some were useful, but unfortunately given that the entire line of conversation was providing tailored help to one individual asking relatively basic questions it added tremendous bulk for very minimal benefit. If important points were made that would benefit the lead post, please PM the author directly. Sorry for the inconvenience.

gaverick · 08/16/11, 3:06 PM

Vykas,
I'm a bit confused on the results based on your Vampiric Touch Haste table (w/o DI) and the Haste_Percent formula. What am I missing?
In the table you have Extra ticks for 2 = 20.2% haste, but your formula has it calculated as 30.0% to get 7 total ticks (2 additional ticks). Could you explain what formula you used to get the % values in your table? or what I've missed?

vykas · 08/19/11, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by gaverick

Vykas,
I'm a bit confused on the results based on your Vampiric Touch Haste table (w/o DI) and the Haste_Percent formula. What am I missing?
In the table you have Extra ticks for 2 = 20.2% haste, but your formula has it calculated as 30.0% to get 7 total ticks (2 additional ticks). Could you explain what formula you used to get the % values in your table? or what I've missed?

Right, the table shows you the information for your unbuffed haste whereas the formula lets you calculate it with your buffs (like shadow form). The important information from the tables is the actual number. The percent that it shows will be reflected in the percent when you hover over your haste amount on your character sheet.