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12/28/11, 4:06 PM
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#121
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Astalina
This has been bugging me, i have the LFR version of Will of Unbinding and Insignia of the Corrupted Mind and I can't use them over DMC:V and Rune of Zeth. Whenever I swap the two out, I get a dps loss by about 2k. I can't figure it out.
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You're going to have to give more information than that. For example, is this being run with Simcraft? What buffs are you using? Where are you in relation to gaining extra DoT ticks from haste?
I really hope you're not talking about losing 2k DPS unbuffed on a target dummy. If you are, please run Simcraft instead with the appropriate raid buffs checked.
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The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
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12/28/11, 6:03 PM
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#122
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Glass Joe
Draenei Priest
Hellscream
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Originally Posted by Balkoth
You're going to have to give more information than that. For example, is this being run with Simcraft? What buffs are you using? Where are you in relation to gaining extra DoT ticks from haste?
I really hope you're not talking about losing 2k DPS unbuffed on a target dummy. If you are, please run Simcraft instead with the appropriate raid buffs checked.
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I've been running it with Simcraft and Dark intent with all buffs aside from Focus magic. With DMC:V and Rune of Zeth my haste is at 3137 (Without DI currently on) and DPS is around 31.7k or so. And with Will of Unbinding and Insignia on my haste is at 2856 with DPS around 29.1k. Maybe there's something i'm missing, because i thought it was haste at first.If i swap out my bracers for an older one with more haste and then swap out DMC:V for WoU I get the exact same haste value, but even more dps loss. I don't know what im doing wrong :<
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12/29/11, 1:31 AM
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#123
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Piston Honda
Troll Priest
Термоштепсель (EU)
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Originally Posted by Astalina
I've been running it with Simcraft and Dark intent with all buffs aside from Focus magic. With DMC:V and Rune of Zeth my haste is at 3137 (Without DI currently on) and DPS is around 31.7k or so. And with Will of Unbinding and Insignia on my haste is at 2856 with DPS around 29.1k. Maybe there's something i'm missing, because i thought it was haste at first.If i swap out my bracers for an older one with more haste and then swap out DMC:V for WoU I get the exact same haste value, but even more dps loss. I don't know what im doing wrong :<
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I simcraft your bnet profile and with DMC:V and Zeth your simulated dps (patchwerk, 50k iterations, all buffs except FM):
33574
And with WoU_390+IotC_384 and w/o reforge on wand and one ring (for hitcap) your simulated dps:
34534
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12/29/11, 1:54 AM
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#124
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Glass Joe
Draenei Priest
Hellscream
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Oh my I apologize, I'm stupid and didnt have the new version of simcraft still :<
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12/29/11, 2:57 AM
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#125
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Glass Joe
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I have the T13 4piece and I am curious what the haste breakpoints are (if any worthwhile) above 2200 haste with Dark Intent.
I have 2893 haste at current and have DI in every raid. So my question is with the 4piece bonus from T13 is what are the breakpoints between 2200 - 3000 haste.
From the testing I have done thus far just watching World of Logs attempts on heroic Ultraxion 25man with my current gear setup/reforge setup , doing the normal rotation or going mindspike-mindblast-applydots during each shadowfiend uptime it seems to essentially just be a wash in terms of damage output. Neither really comes out ahead.
So taking the current information if I met the significant breakpoints with haste around the level I am current, would dropping 3-4-500 haste increase the shadowfiend(mindspike/mindblast) cooldown timing enough to warrant that big of a change.
Simcraft with my current gear profile places mastery above haste which isn't unexpected. My question is how much can I drop my haste aka to what breakpoint for the shadowfiend-mindspike-mindblast rotation before it becomes counterproductive. OR if considering this is even worth the effort.
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12/29/11, 6:20 AM
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#126
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Piston Honda
Troll Priest
Термоштепсель (EU)
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Originally Posted by jonish
I have the T13 4piece and I am curious what the haste breakpoints are (if any worthwhile) above 2200 haste with Dark Intent.
I have 2893 haste at current and have DI in every raid. So my question is with the 4piece bonus from T13 is what are the breakpoints between 2200 - 3000 haste.
From the testing I have done thus far just watching World of Logs attempts on heroic Ultraxion 25man with my current gear setup/reforge setup , doing the normal rotation or going mindspike-mindblast-applydots during each shadowfiend uptime it seems to essentially just be a wash in terms of damage output. Neither really comes out ahead.
So taking the current information if I met the significant breakpoints with haste around the level I am current, would dropping 3-4-500 haste increase the shadowfiend(mindspike/mindblast) cooldown timing enough to warrant that big of a change.
Simcraft with my current gear profile places mastery above haste which isn't unexpected. My question is how much can I drop my haste aka to what breakpoint for the shadowfiend-mindspike-mindblast rotation before it becomes counterproductive. OR if considering this is even worth the effort.
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http://www.simulationcraft.org/Shado...reakpoints.txt
Only IDP breakpoint - 3202 haste. Others are unachievable.
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12/29/11, 10:15 AM
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#127
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Szeretlek
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I have seen that chart but it wasnt clear if the chart was taking full raid buffs into consideration before mentioning DI etc.
If that chart was taking full raid buffs into consideration before the mentioning of DI / goblin. I would be able to reforge all the way down to 2284 haste without the concern of missing any haste breakpoints as IDP isnt a breakpoint, though I am not near the 3202 haste mark anyway.
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12/29/11, 11:53 AM
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#128
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Piston Honda
Troll Priest
Термоштепсель (EU)
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Originally Posted by jonish
I have seen that chart but it wasnt clear if the chart was taking full raid buffs into consideration before mentioning DI etc.
If that chart was taking full raid buffs into consideration before the mentioning of DI / goblin. I would be able to reforge all the way down to 2284 haste without the concern of missing any haste breakpoints as IDP isnt a breakpoint, though I am not near the 3202 haste mark anyway.
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Only haste buff Shadowpriest gives himself omg! (Except DI ofc, which mention at this chart)
And there is a talent Darkness. Which is not optional really.
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12/30/11, 5:53 AM
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#129
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Piston Honda
Draenei Monk
Черный Шрам (EU)
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Originally Posted by Szeretlek
Reaching haste breakpoint reset its duration to bigger value - so you need recast it less.
Its not very big dps increase.
Last time I checked it was something like ~100-150 in BiS gear.
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I just recently started playing spriest again, so I'm not entirely sure on how this new dot clipping mechanic works, it would be great if a thorough explanation was added to the first post. From what I collected by searching internets, looks like it adds the new full duration after the next tick, so if you're just before a haste breakpoint you'll effectively have a shorter lasting dot?
Also, does this mean that when I simply apply the dot, its duration will depend on my haste? Or will it always show the full 15 sec or whatever, but the last second or so will do no damage?
Also, now that I finally got my 4pc, it seems that mastery stacking might be viable for fights where short burst is needed? E.g. spine, hagara? Also, from what I'm seing, the choice of whether to use spike/blast during sf/archangel depends mostly on the amount of mastery, no? Mine is pretty low and I'm not seing any dps increase from doing that. I just tried it on LFR deathwing, using fiend for when cataclysm starts, as a result mind spike was #1 overall, until 2nd phase.
Last edited by Iroared : 12/30/11 at 7:53 AM.
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12/30/11, 6:49 PM
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#130
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Iroared
I'm not entirely sure on how this new dot clipping mechanic works
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There are basically 4 rules to how DoTs works: - Each DoT ticks once every 3/OverallHasteMultiplier seconds (so if your overall haste is 10%, it'll tick once every 2.73 seconds)
- The duration of a DoT is however many ticks is closest to the original cast time (so for Vampiric Embrace, the number of ticks is 15/TickTime = 15/(3/OverallHasteMultiplier) = 5*OverallHasteMultiplier rounded to the nearest integer. So once OverallHasteMultiplier is more than 1.1 (i.e. 10% haste), you'll be above 5.5 ticks expected, and the DoT duration will be for 6 ticks (16.36 seconds). The next haste breakpoint is at 30% haste, etc.
- A DoT refreshed before the previous DoT falls off adds first drops any ticks except the next tick off of the existing DoT, then applies its full duration to the existing DoT, and recalculates the damage per tick and the "schedule" of ticks based on effects the player has on them. So if you're just above the 6 tick breakpoint for VT, and you recast it just as the second to last tick of the current DoT is occurring, the DoT will be up for 19.09 seconds before finally falling off.
- The damage per tick of a DoT has no relation to the number of ticks of the DoT (so the DPM of VT stays constant with respect to haste, until you reach a haste breakpoint, where it jumps by 20%, then 16.7%, then 12.5%, etc.)
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12/30/11, 7:14 PM
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#131
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Piston Honda
Draenei Monk
Черный Шрам (EU)
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Thanks for the explanation, I kinda figured everything except the rounding part - good to know blizzard doesn't always round stuff down.
More random thoughts on 4pc and ms/mb spam:
- Any addon that shows pet swing timer? Like quartz does, but for pets.
- Would /cancelaura Mind Melt be useful for making sure you don't lose GCDs? I guess there's no point macroing it to spike or blast, though.
- This sounds like a pretty hard thing to implement in simcraft action list, mostly due to pet swing timer. Any ideas?
- I read through most of the discussion, but didn't see any definitive answer to when this would yield a dps increase. My guess is that it's mostly dependant on mastery, so if I could get simcraft to sim it, I could get some nice graphs. Or, idk, perhaps write a small program that would run the rotation.
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12/30/11, 9:22 PM
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#132
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Priest
Frostmourne
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Obviously any time we need some burst damage, the 4piece mindspike/blast shines. Think Burning Tendons on Spine, Oozes on Yor'sahj. I personally am not getting DPS gains by using it in the regular rotation, the DPS definitely spikes a little but it evens back out due to ramping up the dots again.
My question to everyone is this, would it be advantageous to use this at the start of pulls? Think in terms of Ultraxion, where most guilds are popping lust at the start. We can easily get lust on our Shadow Fiend. Should we be Mind flaying to get Evangalism built up, and then popping AA and Fiend and going with the MS/MB spam? Since we would have had to ramp our dots up at the start regardless, would this be our new optimal opener? So far my dummy play indicates that DPS starts higher.
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12/30/11, 9:47 PM
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#133
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Iroared
- Would /cancelaura Mind Melt be useful for making sure you don't lose GCDs? I guess there's no point macroing it to spike or blast, though.
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How would cancelaura on Mind Melt stop you from losing GCDs? Mind Melt at 2 stacks makes your Mind Blast instant, so it reduces the cast time to your base GCD.
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12/30/11, 10:17 PM
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#134
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Alyse
How would cancelaura on Mind Melt stop you from losing GCDs? Mind Melt at 2 stacks makes your Mind Blast instant, so it reduces the cast time to your base GCD.
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Mind Melt causes a Mind Blast cast right after a Mind Spike to come immediately. As a result, it's guaranteed to be a 0 orb mind blast, instead of the more likely 3 orb mind blast if the fiend could get a swing in. As a result, it's advantageous to cancelaura Mind Melt to increase DPS in such a rotation.
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12/30/11, 11:15 PM
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#135
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by serrif
Mind Melt causes a Mind Blast cast right after a Mind Spike to come immediately. As a result, it's guaranteed to be a 0 orb mind blast, instead of the more likely 3 orb mind blast if the fiend could get a swing in. As a result, it's advantageous to cancelaura Mind Melt to increase DPS in such a rotation.
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Ahh, hadn't thought of pushing the GCD up by casting mind blast - I had simply been holding my mind blast until I got 3 orbs. This makes sense, and might help squeeze an extra mind spike during the fiend duration.
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