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11/23/11, 8:13 AM
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#16
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Von Kaiser
Dwarf Priest
Азурегос (EU)
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Originally Posted by Crow
This is likely an early stage of development but on the other hand they stated numerous time they want to clean up our skill bars. Well, too bad if they do this by removing some non-crucial but fun and niche spells from our books.
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Well, at least it's possible that I will be able to skip upgrading my mouse to the one with more buttons this expansion
Disc only Hymn of Hope looks very bad tho. Regarding Holy-only Heal it's possible that they gonna have discs just Smite instead given that they can't just drop Atonement.
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11/23/11, 10:24 AM
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#17
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Von Kaiser
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Some things that caught my eye:
- Spirit of Redemption now a Passive Holy spell, implying that all holy priests will have access to it.
- Both specs will get a Passive 5% Intellect buff, in Mysticism, which is 10% less than the current Passive buff that discipline now receives.
- New Passives: Dark Thoughts and Holy Focus, reduces pushback by 70% while casting spells.
- Chakra and Revelations are Passive holy abilities, too.
- Grace appears to be getting buffed, with each stack increasing all healing received by 10%, as opposed to the current 4/8% that it gives now.
- Lack of group healing from discipline. It seems like they're trying to make discipline a more single target focused spec, which some people have argued all along, while holy is being refined into the group or raid healing spec.
The only downside to this is how each spec would handle healing in a 5 man setting. A holy priest could fall back on their tank healing Chakra to get the job done and still group heal effectively, while a discipline priest could struggle in that regard, as they have nothing to fall back on, in terms of group healing. They could take Vampiric Dominance and basically heal like Purifiers do in "Rift," where they focus healing on the tank and the group receives heals that way.
I also think if they're going to "make" us take Spirit of Redemption and Chakra + Revelations, they could at least do something to improve those abilities, so it doesn't seem so forced. If they were to bring back the Spirit buff from SoR, that might make it more attractive again, since they're leaving in Holy Concentration and implying that we are going to be as reliant on Spirit for regen as ever. Not only will we be reliant on Spirit as priests, but as healers in general, based on how the developers have stated they want to make changes to Intellect and Spirit, in terms of stat priorities and what those stats will do for all healers.
Lastly, they need to just remove the damn "on use" portion of Lightwell already. In my opinion, that is the single biggest obstacle to making Lightwell as viable as everyone wants it to be. If we could just make it provide passive healing, like the Lightwell from the Argent Colliseum (I think that was the place) or like the T12 4 piece bonus provided, we would be golden. But, as long as people have a choice to click the Lightwell or not, they are most often going to choose not to click it, and therefore the ability becomes almost useless.
Last edited by Oestrus : 11/23/11 at 10:33 AM.
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11/23/11, 11:07 AM
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#18
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Priest
Outland (EU)
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I think Holy Focus is supposed to be only disc/holy and dark thoughts shadow only. Otherwise, whats the point in having two separate abilities. I also think PoH will appear back - either as baseline or holy & disc. I don't agree with the remark about being 'forced' to take SoR. One of the good features of new talent/ability system is that you get some cool / very situational abilities without having to choose between raw throughput/regen. While nobody would take Mind Vision talent I never heard anyone said he is 'forced' to have it.
The argument however applies to Revelations talent - in PvP situation I don't want my CC to be replaced by some HoT.
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11/23/11, 11:34 AM
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#19
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Von Kaiser
Worgen Priest
Alterac Mountains
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Originally Posted by Oestrus
Some things that caught my eye:
- Both specs will get a Passive 5% Intellect buff, in Mysticism, which is 10% less than the current Passive buff that discipline now receives.
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They mentioned bringing primary stats closer to secondary stats in the xpac and also making Int have less effect on mana pool. I wonder if this means spirit will be the way to increase mana pool, hard to say. Curious what effect this will have on disc as they have largely been dependent on mana pool for their regen.
Some nice notes in there though, shadow getting baseline silence and Psy Horr. Easier PvP transition and those spells were always fun utility in PvE, but impossible to get and maximize damage output.
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11/23/11, 12:34 PM
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#20
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Von Kaiser
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I wonder if this means spirit will be the way to increase mana pool, hard to say. Curious what effect this will have on disc as they have largely been dependent on mana pool for their regen.
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It's interesting to note that resto druids and shaman get the Passive ability Meditation (which allows 50% of their mana regen from Spirit to continue while in combat), while discipline priests have nothing along those lines (except for Rapture) and holy priests still just have Holy Concentration (which only increases the mana regen from Spirit by 30% while in combat). So if Spirit is going to become that crucial of a stat, I would think each class and spec that is going to need it should be equally as dependent on it and get roughly the same things from it.
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11/23/11, 5:18 PM
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#21
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Koilie
They mentioned bringing primary stats closer to secondary stats in the xpac and also making Int have less effect on mana pool. I wonder if this means spirit will be the way to increase mana pool, hard to say. Curious what effect this will have on disc as they have largely been dependent on mana pool for their regen.
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What they said was that they want/are considering going to a static mana pool per level(~100k at 85 per Ghostcrawler), meaning your max mana is based on your level and will not increase like it does now from outside factors, i.e. talents, buffs, gear. Also, that they want the additional mana required for the fight to come from regen based mechanics like spirit/mana tide and the such. Intellect, if they do use this system, would be solely to provide Spell Power and any remaining talents/spells/skills that worked off of higher mana due to higher Intellect would be changed to work within the boundaries of this new mechanic.
Example: just random numbers here for demonstration purpose
lvl83 max mana 92K
lvl 84 max mana 96k
lvl 85 max mana 100k
lvl 86 max mana 104k
ETC to Level cap.
This enables all gear levels to have the same amount of Initial mana to work with and allows for gearing through a combination closer to a 50/50 split of Int(SP=bigger heals) and Spr(Regen=more throughput) vs now where all healers basically gear for int and minimal spirit because Int is propped up so much by talents/mechanics/spells. I see this almost as a move toward the Burning Crusade style of healing where gearing for Spell Power and MP5 were both choices(depending on the class).
Last edited by Grailwatcher : 11/23/11 at 5:22 PM.
Reason: clarification
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11/24/11, 7:09 AM
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#22
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Von Kaiser
Pandaren Monk
Whisperwind
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Looking over the spell lists, I think there are some obvious oversights. Discipline did not get the new shield that was announced, and other base priest spells are missing as well.
I do think the renew, hymn, and heal/binding heal changes were intended. It is the spells like Prayer of Healing and Mind Blast that somehow did not make it in any of the specs that seem to be forgotten about and I don't expect them to actually be removed from game.
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12/08/11, 10:29 AM
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#23
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Von Kaiser
Undead Priest
Azjol-Nerub
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I'm pretty aggrieved about the update today.
It revealed Disc gets Holy Nova (Heals 2088 / 5 nearby targets ) versus Holy's Prayer of Healing (3588 healing to 5 group targets )
Built like it is now, Holy nova is impossible to tune correctly. Mostly because it's instant cast. Either it heals the casting priest for too much, or it doesn't heal aoe-style nearly enough. They have to removed the (divided by) target restriction to have any chance of making the spell work correctly.
I'm really unsat about the talent trees. There's very few *real* choices so far. Most of the talent picks are exactly what they are trying to avoid. There's still a lot of work to be done.
Shadow guise is pretty cool, however. Priests have been asking forever to have something to peel themselves other then that worthless psychic scream. A+ on that one.
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12/08/11, 11:57 AM
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#24
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Priest
Outland (EU)
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I wouldn't pay much attention to actual numbers yet (such as spirit shell being 3 sec cast for 1/3rd the absorption of PW:S). Even if Holy Nova was finely tuned I believe removal of PoH would make disc priest a very poor raid healers due to positioning requirements of Nova.
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12/08/11, 12:26 PM
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#25
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King Hippo
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Yeah, I like the idea of Nova being Disc's main AE heal as it ties in with Atonement's whole 'do some damage while you heal' theme, but as it stands it'll mean that AE healing as disc will be "slam face against Nova forever."
There are plenty of ways to fix that, though, so I'm not too worried.
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Big Crits, the show about wiping, killing bosses, and teabagging.
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12/08/11, 1:54 PM
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#26
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Crow
I wouldn't pay much attention to actual numbers yet (such as spirit shell being 3 sec cast for 1/3rd the absorption of PW:S)
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I'm actually thinking that might be intended. According to the calculator, Disc gets Spirit Shell at level 28. Holy gets regular Heal at level 28. Disc doesn't get normal Heal - Spirit Shell may be Disc's small mana efficient "heal".
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12/09/11, 4:06 PM
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#27
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Fraax
I'm actually thinking that might be intended. According to the calculator, Disc gets Spirit Shell at level 28. Holy gets regular Heal at level 28. Disc doesn't get normal Heal - Spirit Shell may be Disc's small mana efficient "heal".
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Assuming Spirit Shell's absorption effect draws on Disc's mastery, it makes the bread & butter heal more appropriately flavored to Disc as a spec. Given that, if the post-shell heal can crit, it can proc DA. In one spell, Blizzard has given crit and mastery similar importance from a stat standpoint.
Clearly, a redesign is in the cards for Holy Nova. When it comes to AE healing, Disc has given up every tool but Nova, so seeing how that plays out will certainly be interesting. However, something Kaivax said on the official forums stuck out to me. If priests in general have too many AE heals, and Holy will have PoH, CoH, and HW:Sanctuary, in addition to the big Divine Hymn CD, AND their stated intention is for PoH to be Holy's equivalent to Disc's revamped Holy Nova, it makes me think that Holy's losing CoH.
Also, in another thread, Kaivax revealed that Atonement is getting made into a glyph. Makes it available to Holy priests, which is good, but if a glyph is going to be that kind of big game-changer, there's no telling what other manner of glyphs are going to play into the build of the class.
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