SS is for pre-shielding people. You get SS up 10s before the hit PoH 4 groups flash a few more ppl and let the thing hit.

Incidentally penance don't seem to work with Spirit Shell.

Its also a tank healing CD. Gheal/flash/PoH/PWS ---> Massive bubble on the tank. Think hc Madness for tentacles. The only problem is the bubble duration is a little too short. I think it needs more time. Interesting CD but needs tweaking.

I think maybe make it a 30s absorb that stacks to a priest

Divine insight: WTF! The PoM cast this way benefits from the holy healing boosting talents. Mine healed for 27 and 31k!. This is actually totally awesome :P.

That really depends on the fight. If you know that a huge, life threatening aoe is going to come in the next 15 seconds and all other healers frantically spam the raid to get everyone to 100% it's good to use SS and cast 5 PoH. Firstly you reduce your own overheal to 0%, even if you do less hps according to your calculations, but in such a situation many people will already be full and your PoH heal will go to waste. Secondly you reduce everyone else's overheal because they don't overheal someone whom you've just topped off, but instead top someone off whom you've just given a shield.
That's a huge advantage for the raid IF you have a huge, predictable aoe incoming. When the damage is continuous, it is better not to use SS.

I can see how it will be crap in 10man content though. If you don't have 4-5 groups to pre-PoH, SS is strictly worse, unless everyone is already at 100% and the aoe will still be dangerous.

One other problem is that the current SS doesn't scale with crit or mastery at all. Even haste scaling is rather limited, because you can't cast the same spell twice and if you want to preshield a tank further than 1 FH and 1 GH you'd have to resort to Heal and PoH (Penance doesn't work), which is shit hps anyway. More haste doesn't really help there.

1500 mastery is like 40% mastery and 1000 crit is maybe 11% crit. That means 42% of PoH goes on aegis automatically. It would take roughly 2 PoHs to build the same aegis shield as one SS-PoH, including crit. In addition you don't have to just PoH you can totally PWS/Gheal ppl for a big absorption stack. One gheal applies the same absorption as roughly 2 PoHs.

The main problem is the shield lasts too little.

SS also makes sense for those fights where you have a shallow steady raid wide DoT. Right now all other classes with raid wide HoTs pwn disc, but SS can help deal with that.

Then again you have those fights with heal absorbs. SS might be very handy then.


I think though either the absorb created should be aegis or at hte very least it should stack like aegis does.

My main concern is that by popping SS we will also lose all our current aegis stacks.

Ok. For those who cant get simple mathematics.
It you have full raid at 100% hp, and in 15sec huge blow will crush and you have ~1000crit and ~1500 mastery
your Prayer of Healing will stack bubbles on your raid with the same speed compared to Spirit Shell.
Moreover, with spirit shell you are limited by 1 PoH per group, so it is 10 sec of casting (2sec cast * 5 group) in 25man and 4 sec in 10 man.
Obviously you can make bigger bubbles with pure PoH, because aegis from PoH stacks.
So in that 15 sec you will make X bubbles with SS and 1.5*X bubbles without SS in 25man (10sec casting with SS and 15 sec casting with pure PoH).
In 10 man you will make X bubbles with SS and ~3*X bubbles with pure PoH. (4sec SS and 15 sec with PoH).

I dont get why you think that SS will help you save raid before damage better then PoH?
Its a garbage.

Please think carefully before posting. What you have posted is completely wrong. What I posted are quick estimates based on lvl 87 right now on beta. WITH the monk buff right now on beta I have close to 40% mastery. With I have 8.77 crit WITH the stat buff. Level 87 with lvl 85 gear is probably going to be a pretty good analogy for what you will have at level 90 with hc dungeon blue gear.

There is no crit and int buff in MoP and stat buff is 5%. That 27.8% crit you are talking about is an unachievable dream. Unless ofc you start stacking crit.

Right now on beta for me PoH heals for 14k and applies a 5.3k shield. There is also a 8.77% chance of applying a 22k shield or so. So on 5 targets it will apply 4.5*5.3 + 0.0877*5*22 = 34k aegis. GH on beta heals for 50k. SS PoH applies a 14*5 = 70k absorb. Next time don't post rubbish before checking with live values. The spell weights have changed quite a lot.

My estimate of 2:1 is bang on. Your estimate is based on end of expansion raid gear at 85 with mild crit stacking, that is not really the best route for disc in the first place and is largely irrelevant for MoP until the end of the first raid tier at least.

On live PWS applies something like 3.5k aegis a pop. On 5 targets that is 21.5k. A crit applies 3x that much, so 20% crit raises that to just about 28k.

Your model is also ridiculous frankly. Your imagination has completely failed. Only an idiot would use spirit shell like that. Spirit shell stacks on TOP of aegis, so on 10 man you would build aegis until say 10s before the hit comes, then switch to spirit shell cast 1 PWS, 2 PoH and 2Gheal, then cancel spirit shell and go back to normal healing after the hit. On 25man you would stack aegis on two groups until the hit comes, then SS-->1PWS+4 PoHs 10s before the damage strikes. Nothing is stopping you from cancelling spirit shell. If the damage comes in 15s intervals, Right after the damage comes you can activate spirit shell and go PWS-PoH on everyone+Gheal whatever is left and build a much larger shield than you can with aegis.

Crit is nice but you can't guarantee that you will get it on everyone. That means someone will get a huge shield and the rest will get a tiny shield, which is not what you want.

Just rating scaling. As always in every expansion. In full 346 gear you had 5500 int and 400crit, that gave you ~18% crit chance. I think they will make rating conversion the same way, so without crit reforging you scale from 15% to 30% crit just with crit rating on gear.
I said that I talk about live numbers. Beta just have ~40% increase to compensate some problems. Spell weight doesnt change much. Just rating conversion numbers changes with levels. As always.
Haste stacking. 1000 crit is a leftover after all spirit reforged to haste. Then there is a room for crit reforge. Maybe. Crit not so good.
I think you talk about PoH, not PWS, but anyway your numbers are true for 390ilvl maybe, dunno.

Live numbers, heroic gear. HASTE stacking.
Ok, for 87lvl with 8% crit you maybe right. And my point of view is right for heroic MoP-dungeon gear and for, more importantly, prepatch age and MoP-raiding

you talked about not understanding simple math before. Just look at hte little table you posted. It is eye-gougingly obvious that aegis even with massive crit included can never be anywhere near the full no crit value of the PoH heal without aegis. That is on live with 60% aegis on crit instead of 30 and with absolutely massive crit rates, which you wont see for a loooong time on MoP. Just think of it in basic principles. Normal aegis is maximum 40% of a normal heal. Crit would have to provide 60% of a normal heal, which is beyond impossible.

Just do the math: 35k Aegis from PoH including crit and 45k from PoH itself on live. On beta aegis is nerfed by 1/3rd so 25k, compared with 45k for PoH. Given that your values are quite inflated I think it will be just about right. Right now PoH on live hits for 14k per target and Gheal heals for 50k. So a normal heal from PoH is 70k Half of that is 35k aegis. As you can see my estimates was pretty much spot on and SS-Gheal will apply more absorption than PoH aegis.

SS can be used as I explained to boost your absorption buffer massive and most of all reliably. It just needs some tweaking to work out quite well.


The 18% crit chance was not just from crit rating and int, but because of crit buffs from other classes in raid. Crit at the begining of an expansion has always been 10-13%.

I have mostly heroic gear. Including the hc Madness mace. I haven't really been raiding since we finished the content, but my best normal warmaster log on WoL was in the top10 for a while so it might still be saved I will check later and I can provide you with more exact values from the log. The rest is 4x403 items and 1x391 ring. We are talking nearly 11k spellpower, so your values are going to be roughly the same as mine. Perhaps you are using inner fire and taking raid buffs into account.

I am afraid that relatinoships between spells have changed quite a lot on the beta. The values that we have now are not temporary as far as I can tell, in fact they don't scale at all with level so they will probably be the lvl 90 versions of our spells.

I made a few tests concerning Spirit Shell and its capping mechanics, and they are quite obscure...

First, for all three spells triggering Spirit Shell, during Spirit Shell active they add an absorb effect named by the spell itself (one for Heal, Flash Heal and Greater Heal), but not with the actual amount this spell would heal, but a fixed value, which happens to be the average for the spell's value interval (that is, the number in your tooltip).

The capping part is quite puzzling. For Heal, Flash Heal and Greater Heal, the first cast will add the appropriate absorb amount, while any consecutive cast will increase it by 10% of the original value, up to 130% after 4 casts. Yes, every consecutive cast only adds 10%, nothing more. If the target takes damage in between, it will still only increase up to the amount it would have without any damage. That is, 1st heal capped at 100%, 2nd at 110%, 3rd at 120%, 4th at 130%.
If spells are mixed, the "counter" for capping will not reset. One Heal cast followed a Flash Heal gives a 100% Heal shield and 110% for the Flash Heal. 4 Flash Heals followed by a Greater Heal gives 130% Flash Heal and 130% Greater Heal.

For Prayer of Healing, well...it simply doesn't stack at all (as mentioned here already). The first cast adds the appropriate shield and any further cast (without damaging the shield in between) simply does nothing else than refreshing it. If you take damage in between, it resets to 100% of the original heal.

It's a pretty awkward design to be sure. But tl;dr, the cap scales with spellpower and nothing else. And every cast after the first is unlikely to be fully effective unless the shield breaks.

Here are my values on live: 12148sp in inner will. 17.48% haste. 15.05 mastery (38%), 18.08% crit. PoH heals for 7743base and average aegis is 3205. The base amount healed by gheal is 25339 under the same conditions.

I was also wrong and aegis is the exactly same on both live and beta. So 30% aegis at this level of mastery is 30*1.38 = 41.4%. A critical applies 82.8% of a crit, which is 165.5% of a normal heal, so each crit adds 3 times the normal amount of aegis added by non crits.

To put it in a formula the amount of aegis added by a PoH cast is base*[0.3*(1+mastery)+1.2*crit*(1+mastery)].

We can calculate the relationship between the aegis applied and the amount actually healed by PoH as long as we know crit rate and mastery. Without actually being concerned with how much spellpower you have.

So for 10% crit the average amount of aegis added is 0.1*3*41.4 = 12.4%. 20% crit adds twice that or 24.8%. +41.4% = 66.2% of a normal heal. A spirit shell PoH with these values on live thus adds 50% more absorption than the aegis added by a normal PoH cast. 66.2% of a PoH heal is 5126 so on average the aegis applied by a cast of PoH is 25629, about the same as a gheal.

With the values I had at lvl87 on beta and pretty much all buffs SS-gheal applies roughly 50% more absorption than the aegis from a single cast of PoH and and SS-PoH applies roughly 100% more absorption than the aegis from a single PoH cast. The stats you get from hc dungeon blue gear at 90 is going to be fairly similar to what you have with cataclysm 410 hc gear at level 87. This is because the stat budget on 410 hc gear is roughly the same as that for lvl 87 blue gear. Hence these values are a pretty good indication for what you will have unbuffed with full blue hc gear at 90. You can expect to have ~9-10% crit, ~25-30% mastery and 9-10% haste, assuming you pick mastery ahead of haste.

Update on spirit shell. Currently PoH behaves oddly with spirit shell. It still heals all party members(!!) while applying the ss-PoH. Greater heal, heal and flash heal under spirit shell are both affected by and apply grace (!!). That is why it appears that the cap increases up to 130%. Its simply grace stacking with every heal. So ss calculates the amount that those direct heals would heal for and applies the same amount. This may mean that other +healing buffs are also apply. Greater heal under SS heals your target normally and just applies the SS-Gheal to you. Gheal is generally buffed however. It does not work with targeting commands in macros (you have to target someone to heal them) and it applies grace on you as well as your target.

Once you use spirit shell PoH becomes stuck and continues to apply spirit shell on everyone in the party except the person PoH was targeted on.

All discussions we made here are obsolote now. GC tell about new version of new SS.
Thats uber nice. It will scale from every secondary stat. Less for haste, because you cant stack it properly throughout 15 sec duration of SS. Limit of things you can do in 25man raid: 5 PoH (1 per group), 1 GH-1-FH-1 Heal (tank). 15 sec is enough for all 8 spells. But in 10 man its not so cool. Throw 2 PoH, stack some on tank and thats all.
I dont know exactly how it refresh, if shields partly absorbs. If there is damage dealt to raid, and all bubbles half used, is it viable to refresh it and lost half of shields (and lost half hps ofc) or "/cancelaura Spirit Shell" and heal like always?

For someone in the beta - does inner focus increase Spirit Shell shields?

There are some interesting possibilities there if so.