Disc Priest - Mists of Pandaria - Page 14

Perkeyone · 01/22/13, 11:44 PM

On that subject, this spread sheet I made is set up for 5.2.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1Ayc244X1A1MEE

It calculates the average HPET for a few spells (I will implement more eventually) and then it recalculates the HPET with the same stats but +1 intellect, and then again with +1 spell power, +1 crit, etc. The % difference between the initial value and each "+1" iteration is calculated and then multiplied by 1 million (to get rid of so many leading zeroes). These "PP" values are also expressed in a few places as a value relative to int (so instead of "int:40.3, haste:22.7" you'd get "int:1, haste:.56")

Known issues: 1) limited spell selection 2) PP values are being averaged with each spell having equal weight which skews the results a bit (for example PW:S is being averaged with greater heal, lowering crit's PP and raising mastery's PP). In an update I'll add weights for averaging or I'll split spells up into distinct categories and give averages per category. 3) additional dot ticks are not being calculated. I have to reverse engineer a formula with rounding which is a nightmare but I'll figure it out. Once I get that in I'll crunch numbers for renew. 4) Does not account for GCD capping or crit chance capping. These might not need addressing unless I implement temporary haste buffs later on.

I am not very familiar with setting up protection settings on Google docs, but I did the best I could. Please let me know if you find a spot that is editable by anyone that should not be. Green areas are designated as editable, they can turn red if data is invalid. Google docs' validation was very limited though, so it will allow some garbage sadly.

Also please have a look at the various formulas I used and verify them. There are a lot of very subtle things going on in there like atonement double dipping in the meta gem bonus while suffering from crit depression vs raid bosses. So if you see any errors PM me and I'll address them.

For the gear I was wearing at the time, the values generated by this sheet were as follows: (unweighted average)

RESULTS	PP(hps) PP(dps)
int	1.00	1.00
sp	0.81	0.88
crit	0.59	0.31
haste	0.52	0.48
mastery	0.18	0.00

Szeretlek · 01/23/13, 4:19 AM

@Havoc12
My math shows that with - 12k Spirit, 35k sp, 25%mastery, 25%crit, 10%haste, PoM glyph - usage of sequence

Penance->Solace->PoM (with 3 total heals) give you:
HPS 86671
HPM 34,55

If you are using PWS->Penance->Solace->PoM (with 3 total heals), BT works for all spells except PWS:
HPS 93239 (+7%)
HPM 19,90 (-43%, w/o rapture) or 38,10 (+10%, with rapture)

I cant show all calcs because it made in hurry with excel, and they need some accurate work to post here.

My conclusion: such usage of BT is greatly discouraged by PWS mana-inefficiency. It is works good only if you get Rapture proc. And again I repeat myself. PWS is good only with Rapture. And if you can weave some spells in BT - thats awesome =)

P.S. Thats all about 5.2 ofc

• Hamlet · 01/23/13, 3:21 PM

I'll try to jump in on the spell comparisons more, but note that the sheet in the (now poorly-name) HolyCalcs thread is mostly designed to do exactly these comparisons with a lot less reinventing the wheel every time. Even more so that the whole rotation thing, it serves to just put in some stats and see how all your spells compare in HPET/HPM.

5.2 PTR - Build 16486 - Spell Changes, Icons, New Set Bonuses, and More - Wowhead News
New spell data from PTR confirms Penance with a 124.4% coefficient. That is what was expected, but just emphasizing again how strong it is. The effective coefficient of 1.244 * 1.2 (Evangelism) * 1.05 (Elements) * 3 ticks amounts to roughly a 470% spellpower coefficient on a 2sec cast, which is around the same a Prayer of Healing on 5 targets, on a spell with shorter cast time, half the cost, and is smart.

It's being beaten into you--like Druids with Wild Growth or Monk with Renewing Mists, you have a heal that's supposed to be used on cooldown. It dominates anything else you can cast and is supposed to provides a sort of constant baseline healing notice (honestly the only funny part is just how good of a spell they had to provide to make people even take notice over PoH :P ).

Prayer of Healing is still a significantly better no-cooldown heal than non-Rapture PWS, that's not going to change. PWS is still not particular more efficient than Flash Heal, which is how it's meant to be--spamming is never a correct option; you need to use it intelligently to get value.

Gloryrider · 01/23/13, 5:37 PM

Another notable change: from those patch notes it seems like they're nerfing both Binding heal and Flash heal *sad face*

Other than that, is it so that the new Glyph of Holy fire won't extend the range of our Penance (at least the offensive part) by 10y? It doesn't say so on the tooltip right now... This would be quite a bummer and basically make the glyph lose much of it's value for us - we'll stick within 30y range anyway to penance a mob constantly.

Other than that, because crit gains a lot of value next patch, today I decided to test it out - reforged my gear to spirit > crit > mastery > haste, ending up with ~4k crit, 3.5k mastery and 2k haste unbuffed (so 6.5k mastery with mastery buff). And it actually felt like pretty good healing while we cleared Terrace of Endless Springs (normal, that is). I will test it out on MSV and HoF heroic bosses as well the coming days.
Atonement definitely gets it's benefit from it, and although spirit shell loses some in throughput, when used as a pre-bubble there is no harm in losing a little bit. At least that's how it felt. Depending on how this goes I will probably gem less spirit and more intellect and crit instead of mastery as well.
Might as well get used to it now before 5.2 hits.

On a different note, I'm unsure what trinkets to keep for 5.2. In 5.1 base intellect with spirit proc is clearly the best type of trinket you can get, as long as you have 1 or 2 rapture procs when it is up. Since this feature will be removed: is it better to run with say, Qin-Xi's polarizing Seal? Because of the base spirit it will be included in rapture gains, and it will give you a nice intellect proc. The only downside is that it isn't controllable which results in wasting the proc on low-damage phases. (although, it still increases your damage done if you're still smiting!) What are your thoughts?

royalpoet · 01/23/13, 7:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gloryrider

Another notable change: from those patch notes it seems like they're nerfing both Binding heal and Flash heal *sad face*

They're nerfing it baseline, but buffing it with Spiritual Healing, a holy and disc passive. The ultimate effect is only to nerf those two spells for shadow, as Blizzard considers shadow direct healing too powerful.

Havoc12 · 01/23/13, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Szeretlek

@Havoc12
My math shows that with - 12k Spirit, 35k sp, 25%mastery, 25%crit, 10%haste, PoM glyph - usage of sequence

Penance->Solace->PoM (with 3 total heals) give you:
HPS 86671
HPM 34,55

If you are using PWS->Penance->Solace->PoM (with 3 total heals), BT works for all spells except PWS:
HPS 93239 (+7%)
HPM 19,90 (-43%, w/o rapture) or 38,10 (+10%, with rapture)

You should not glyph PoM, it reduces HPS quite strongly, especially with the 2 set. PoM should only be used in a situation of constant raid damage.

20 HPM is pretty good actually, since it gets extra mana regeneration to account for the higher cost of spells. And you will be getting rapture on this combo sometimes.

You forgot to add a binding heal or a PoH at the end. It will also benefit from borrowed time. So the benefit is more than 7%.

If you get rapture every 2nd PWS, you are still looking at 180k healing for 9k mana or 20 HPM on PWS, which is very good considering it has much lower overheal.

Disc will suffer from low HPS, so getting the maximum possible HPS will be of great importance.

========

Renew can be chained under borrowed time with the glyph to produce about 5% HPCT higher than flash heal. Renew is not worth casting for disc unless it is glyphed and the fight is mostly single target with high movement. Renew should only be cast under borrowed time.

=========

Flash heal and Binding heal are nerfed by 30%, but disc and holy get a 43% buff on it, which leaves it unchanged. 0.7*1.43 = 1.001

Binding heal with the glyph has lowish HPM, but it is the highest HPS spell for disc if PoM with the new 2 set is unusable.

Hamlet, penance is not your best spell even with the 20% buff. PoM with the 2 set and binding heal with the glyph are. Howeer penance has an additional benefit of stacking evangelism so it should be used on CD. PoM and the glyphed binding heal have a mixed targeted and smart component, which reduces the unfortunate but very common occurence of penance spazzing out and healing a pet or summoned ally. Also for renew you need to factor the glyph in. Once you reach breakpoints renew heals for more when it glyphed and borrowed time ensures that you always reach at least one breakpoint.

Szeretlek · 01/24/13, 12:37 AM

Power Word: Shield absorb increased by 40% for Disc and Holy.

Power Word: Shield - Baseline - Priest - Class Abilities - Spells - WowDB (PTR)
WTF.
[ 321.1% of Spell Power + 33,338 ] for disc.
This change is in latest PTR build.
I tnink these numbers include 20% base mastery. So with 35k sp that converts in 145k bubble.

kouby · 01/24/13, 7:21 AM

"Keep in mind that Archangel does not benefit Spirit Shell." typo left over in the main post under "Spell and Ability Review" section.

Havoc12 · 01/24/13, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Szeretlek

Power Word: Shield - Baseline - Priest - Class Abilities - Spells - WowDB (PTR)
WTF.
[ 321.1% of Spell Power + 33,338 ] for disc.
This change is in latest PTR build.
I tnink these numbers include 20% base mastery. So with 35k sp that converts in 145k bubble.

A 40% buff to PWS would put it above PoH and at the same level as penance with high mastery.

I am going to put the new numbers for PWS on the spreadsheet and see what I come up with.

• Hamlet · 01/24/13, 2:10 PM

Is there a source on a PWS buff other than that unexplained MMO tooltip? It shows a 43% increase to current numbers for Disc and Holy. And since the actual patch notes mention a 43% increase for Flash Heal for Disc and Holy and nothing about PWS this looks like an error unless someone's checked it on PTR last night.

Amaranthea · 01/24/13, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Is there a source on a PWS buff other than that unexplained MMO tooltip? It shows a 43% increase to current numbers for Disc and Holy. And since the actual patch notes mention a 43% increase for Flash Heal for Disc and Holy and nothing about PWS this looks like an error unless someone's checked it on PTR last night.

The tooltip formula in game on ptr appears to be using ~(267.6% of Spell Power + 27,782)*mastery for disc, a 43% buff over live. Still only the tooltip though; the actual absorb is the same as live.

43% makes it seem plausible it is a bug related to the nerf of flash and binding for shadow (reduced by 30% base then buffed by 43% for disc and holy).

Edit: (mostly a cut and paste from what I posted on the wow forums; added clarification that it is the in-game tooltip that shows that and not just the mmo-champion datamined note)

Havoc12 · 01/26/13, 4:29 PM

Tested in the PTR: Solace does not use up borrowed time.

Also spirit shell is seriously bugged. My flash heal says 57k on tooltip, but spirit shell puts a 49k absorb on. Worse of all there is this weird bug that causes spell costs for flash heal to multiply to like 7.7million if you cast two spirit shell heals on yourself.

Looks like spirit shell on flash heal is using the 30% value and does not apply the 43% buff for discipline.

Anyone else come across this bug?

PoH 29k on tool tip and the absorb from spirit shell is 36k.

mastery is 42.98 crit is 9.26 so it is as expected.

Szeretlek · 01/28/13, 8:51 AM

PoH 29k on tool tip and the absorb from spirit shell is 36k.

mastery is 42.98; crit is 9.26 so it is as expected.

Expected that Mastery sucks)

SS formula: AvgHeal*(1+2.09*Crit+1.03*Crit*Mastery)
For your stats thats:
SS_PTR_Mastery = 29*(1+2.09*0.0926+1.03*0.0926*0.4298) = 35.8 - seems right.

If you just regem, reforge and simply throw out all mastery with exchange to crit (without raising ilvl of your gear!)
you lose 22.98 mastery%, and gain 22.98 / 2.5 = 9,192 crit%.

Your new stats (just with reforge):
Mastery 20.00%; Crit 18.452%
SS_PTR_Crit = 29*(1+2.09*0.18452+1.03*0.2*0.18452) = 41,3

Just with playing with stats you improve your SS hps on PTR by 15%!

Compare to live with crit and mastery reforge:
SS_Live_Mastery = 29 * (1+0.4298) * (1+0.0926) * 1.3 = 58,9
SS_Live_Crit = 29 * (1+0.2) * (1+0.18452) * 1.3 = 53.6

SS nerf = SS_PTR_Crit / SS_Live_Mastery = 0,70 or 30% (for priests that go full mastery on live)

For those priests (me for example) who already go full int/crit that nerf will be:
SS nerf = SS_PTR_Crit / SS_Live_Crit = 0.77 or 23%

Havoc12 · 01/28/13, 8:36 PM

I am afraid that you grossly understimate the nerf. Spell buffs have a strong impact on the behavior of the spells. I can ignore spellpower buffs because they affect everything except penance the same, but the secondary stats don't work like that.

I am ignoring the 3% meta for now, because spirit shell still seems to ignore it, when I tested it 3 days ago.

So 42.98 --> 57.98
9.24 --> 14.24
5% haste --> 10% haste

Current PoH = 29*(1+0.1426)*(1.5+0.5*0.5798) = 59.31
Current spirit shell = 29*(1+0.1426)*(1+0.5798)*1.3 = 68.05

5.2 with changing all mastery to crit

35 mastery
23.452 crit
10% haste

5.2 PoH/spirit shell = 29*(1+0.23452*2.35) = 44.98

PoH is reduced by 24% and spirit shell is reduced by 34% WITH the reforging to crit.

If I dont reforge then PoH/spirit shell = 29*(1+0.1492*2.5798) = 40.16, i.e a 32% reduction in PoH and a 40% reduction in spirit shell.

This is probably your rationale, but you have forgotten to include inner focus.

SpS with inner focus in 5.1 = 29*2*(1+0.5798)*1.3 = 119.12

Total SpS (5.1) = (119.12+5*68.05)*5 = 459.37*5

SpS with inner focus in 5.2 and crit = 29*(1+2.35) = 97.15
SpS with inner focus in 5.2 and mastery = 29*(1+2.5798) = 103.8142

Lets add it up

Crit --> 322.06*5
Mastery --> 304.63*5

SpS nerfs:
Crit: 30%
Mastery: 34%

However with 10% haste it is impossible to get an extra spirit shell cast. You will still get just 6 casts off, though you will have a little extra time to reduce loss of casts through errors.

Now let us reforge 10% mastery to 5.65% haste

47.98 mastery
14.24 crit
19.9% haste

I now get 7 spirit shells per 15s comfortably in 6.

So total amount is now (with inner focus)

[29*(1+2.4798)+6*29*(1+0.1424*2.4798)]*5 = 336*5, making haste the clear winner.

Things however do change again when you add power infusion to the mix (if this is the talent you take ofc).

PI with 10% haste gives you 32% haste.

15/2.5*1.32 = 7.92, adding a PWS just before you activate spirit shell pushes this to 8.05, which means 8 is doable, but its so close that the slightest lag is going to cost you.

with 19.9% haste and PI you get 43.88% haste so you get 8.6328 casts per 15s and its too far from 9 for PWS to bridge the gap.

Thus with PI:

Crit = 412.03*5
Haste = 375.6*5

Averaging for PI once every second spirit shell:

Crit: 367*5
Haste: 356*5

This with PI crit is the winner.

However reforging 10% mastery to haste and the rest to crit results in the highest possible spirit shell. This assumes that spirit shell is used with PI, which is by no means a given however, because you will get a better return using PI during intensive healing phases where you can use your full complement of spells. It also assumes that PI is taken as a talent.

All in all mastery is terrible, but crit is barely any better for everything including spirit shell, unless you have 15% haste first (Minimum haste required for PWS to increase spirit shell casts to 7). Adding inner focus in the mix, which should really be chained with spirit shell as SpS does not overheal, when used correctly, it turns out that your reforging to crit is just gaining you 6% more HPS, not 12% as you expect from the raw values.

I am afraid the benefit of crit is just not as big as you might think.

Szeretlek · 01/29/13, 1:34 AM

I am afraid the benefit of crit is just not as big as you might think.

Crit is much better then mastery for all spells, not only SS. 5.2 is attonement era, so crit/haste/spirit are way-to-go stats and mastery to zero.

Mastery needs total redesign or significant buff.

P.S. You are wrong at raidbuff calculations.
Mastery buff gives you 3000 rating, or 5 points, or 5*2.5 = 12.5%. Not 15%
Also crit is buffed by ~1% with 5% stats. So its total 6% buff for Intellect casters.
Haste is multiplicative, so 5% + 5% buff will be 1.05*1.05 = 10.25% not 10%.

With your 10% mastery to haste reforging. It will be (5+5.65)% from gear and 5% from raid buff.
1.1065*1.05 = 16.18% not 19.9%