7.6%, so 10% damage is still less than 1% raid dps and it would be even lower if you didn't have a warrior afk doing zero dps and if your MT was better at doing damage and are you stacking crit instead of mastery in this fight? Let see. your crit rate on DPS spells is 24% so I dare say you are stacking crit. Now what would happen if you removed 10% crit. Your DPS would go down by 8% 1.15/1.25 = 0.92. So lets see how much dps you raid would lose:

7.63%*0.08 = 0.6104%

And that is with your warrior being afk and this is in the best possible two healed fight, because there are no adds to aoe and the dps have to take time off spreading tiles. In other words negligible. So lets go get back to reality here: Gearing for dps = pointless.

It is clear that you didn't understand the argument presented to you. Healer DPS does not need to be optimised. If it really did then you would be wearing DPS trinket and using SW:Pain as well. You don't because it does not matter. The contribution from optimizing your DPS is negligible. It does not matter for progression and it never will. If you like to DPS then go for it, it is your choice, but it is not really something that you should recommend to others and it is certainly not important for making it past tight enrage timers.

I am sorry you don't like the way I post, but no one is forcing you to read any of it. I am ignoring the rest of your post, since it contains nothing at all to disprove or prove my argument and it has no bearing on the discussion in hand.

If you feel I am wrong then bring your data. I am satisfied that the math and analysis already done clearly supports that mastery and crit is better for any realistic senario and I have explained why this is the case concisely, not with a log that I claim proves my point, when it does the opposite.

You must be joking. My ilvl is still under 490. My first heroic kill, my first heroic kill in MSV was with 479 ilvl. Anyone who farmed hc MSV before HoF was released had better gear than me entering the instance. I didn't even have the 2set entering HoF. You will be 10-15 ilvls over me going into the instance and you will certainly be doing heroics wtih an even better ilvl than me.

My views on haste have nothing to do with ilvl being overgeared or anything else. I have explained in detail and with the proper math backing why haste is a good stat.

Read the forum rules, to understand why i only quote small bits of each post. Your post is there for everyone to read.

Your data is flawed, because your log is for 9 people not 10 and even then it proves my point. Even 0.7% of total DPS is below the 1% normal variation. 3-4% is a good average for atonement heavy fights due to adds and stuff. Even twice that is not going to be enough to make 10% more damage from you contribute 1% of total raid damage.

You read what wanted to read and it had nothing to do with what I said. My argument was that optimizing DPS is pointless for a healer, because your contribution is too low for the extra DPS from optimisation to matter. If that was not true you would be using dps trinkets and keeping swp up, for the extra DPS. You don't because it does not matter. What does matter is your ability to contribute to healing when the boss is nuking the shit out of your raid. No healer should ever spend even 1/10th of a second thinking, what makes my DPS bigger?

Why wouldn't I have seen a fight that I can't two heal? Could that be because I am in a 25man guild?

We 4 healed hc garajat the first time we killed it because otherwise we couldn't make the enrage timer. We used DPS classes with cooldowns (VT/tide/tranq) to supply the extra healing. Also hybrids helped with healing in the void zones. There are plenty of solutions to having a fight that you want to heal with less healers. You don't necessarily need a healer DPSing.

Fair enough about the gear level I haven't checked it for a long time and I didn't take recent upgrades into account or spending by VP hoard in the past 2 weeks. Doesn't change anything. Anyone who cleared MSV hc before HoF was released had better gear entering the instance than I did when we killed blade lord and the same will be true for the new instance. Anyone farming 16/16hc now will have better gear entering the instance than I will when we start hc modes.

If 3 ppl are getting hit every 5s, then the probability of someone not getting hit at all in a 10man is 34.3%. That means anyone you put an aegis on has roughly a 30% probability of not getting hit in the next 15s. You can ponder on that if you want to stack crit.

No matter what happens if an encounter is challenging then basic principles and basic math tells us that a mixture of mastery and crit, provides a better result than either master or crit alone. Pick any example of challenging damage that you want.

Haste is always the best stat in 5.2 and if you can afford it is best to stack it. Disc will be atonement spamming a lot, which means lower mana usage and people running 10k spirit have a lot more room for extra regen. So you will definitely want some haste, the question is how much.

There are several possibilities, so this is not 100% accurate but.. penance 2s, HF 1.5s, smite x3 = 4.5s and -1.5 from penance CD. Total cast time 8s and 0.5s remaining on penance CD. You can either wait 0.5s or cast another smite and lose 1s from the penance Cd. You have base 5% haste from the buff so that means you can either wait 0.9s or cast the extra smite and lose 0.6sec from the penance CD. 9% haste is enough to eliminate the loss of CD time from penance, which increases penance usage to 1 per 8.3s instead of 1 every 8.30s intead of 1 every 9.04 seconds with 5% haste. This is a 9% increase for the whole sequence. Alternatively you could not take haste, not cast the 4th smite and just cast the next penance at 8.5s, which is a 2.5% loss, but you will be missing one smite, which is approximately 10.5% of the whole sequence, so 0.895/1.025 = 12.7% loss compared to having the extra 9% haste.

Holy fire ends up being unsynched if you are smiting, but that happens anyway and if you simulate it for a long time, haste actually helps with that.

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BH is about 10% stronger than penance and a lot stronger than PoH, but it is very expensive so you want to use it with as little overheal as possible.

I don't think this is relevant tbh. The real question is should disc stack crit and ignore mastery, because there is only a small difference on paper and crit helps dps.

As far as I am concerned the answer is no. Stacking crit and ignoring mastery is not a good strategy for healing, because it makes your output very reliant on crit and random aegis is not very reliable since you can't keep it alive. It is also less effective at making your spirit shell bigger, which is fairly important. Conversely someone might say mastery is more reliable, so its best to stack it, but again you have the same problem your overheal resistance is entirely reliant on crit and mastery stacking is less effective for spirit shell.

So the strategy most likely to be universally effective is balanced mastery and crit. I wouldn't say it is necssary to be exactly at the optimal spot. You can take a little more crit if you prefer and it won't really make any noticeable difference, unless aegis proves to have very high loss rate in the new encounters. Or you can take more mastery, but stacking one or the other exclusively is probably a bad idea. I am personally leaning on mastery more than crit, but again mastery is not going to be great for fights where you have pulsing damage on a short timer.

Due to the synergy of the two stats having both means you will have a good solution for any kind of situation, without losing anything significant compared to stacking one stat.

If your DPS is really important for getting the adds down then crit is not a great stat. What if you don't get 5% more crits even though you have that extra crit in the short time the add is alive. Since you are supplying extra dps even if you get no crits it should be more than enough to push things through if your dps are doing their job. If they are not you stacking crit isn't going to change anything.

I have been told by the moderators to refrain from responding to snide comments in kind, so I wont.

a 6 minute enrage timer. If you are contributing 1% of total raid DPS then 1% of 300seconds is 3 seconds. 0.5% of total DPS is 1.5seconds. Do you are realise that a lucky crit string from one of your DPS is just as likely to do the trick as you completely re-optimising your gear for DPS. If they get 27% crit rate when they actually have 24% then if they are doing 15% of the total DPS that is an extra 0.4%. That is almost as much as you increasing your contribution by 8%.

If your DPS matters that much, then you absolutely need to take mindbender and star/halo and keep SWPain up and death at the sub25% rage and you absolutely have to be stacking haste, not crit and mastery, gem for all int/haste and reforge away your spirit, because even with 6k spirit you can dps the whole fight. Also if that is indeed the case then why not go holy and just DH/CoH/PoM/FDCL when needed. You can do a shitton more DPS that way and you can still produce more healing that disc can in those hair moments, where the raid is getting pummeled.

As you have explained in your own post, changes in playstyle and how much of the fight you spend smiting is a much bigger determinant for your DPS contribution than your gear. So it is pointless to optimise your gear for anything other than healing.

If damage really matters that much have your shamans/palas/druids/monks also help a bit with the DPS. If each of them contributes 1% of total DPS, that is much more than what you can do with a gear and playstyled completely devoted to DPS and the healing will be better. Druids can do a lot of damage with heart of the while when there is a lull in healing and shamans have a lot of talents for offensive healing. Palas can melee the boss while healing and spam denounce at key moments.

If you are looking for an optimal solution to the problem you will never find it in having the disc priest reforge and regem and change their playstyle with DPS in mind. There are plenty of solutions that are just more effective.

In the rare senario where a tight enrage fight rather than requiring 2 healers most of the time and three healers at key moments, needs 2.5 healers all the time, then yes having a disc go full time DPS is a good answer, but even then re-optimising your gear just can't be necessary. The damage benefit is smaller than the random variation in DPS. It is completely invisible since in the vast majority of cases it will either be insufficient or overkill.

However in a more normal situation a fight requires 2 healers most of the time, but there are moments with so high damage that you simply need 3 healers no question about it. That is when as the healer who was DPSing the remainder of the time needs to stop DPSing and push the healing out. The benefit of having a disc is that the other healers can also help DPS in the low damage phases since atonement is decent HPS, but you have a full bloodied healer for those hair moments, instead of relying on your DPS off healing with CDs. Depending on how frequent the tough moments are it may be better to 3 heal it with smiting, but again there is probably no point in optimizing for the disc priest DPS, because the contribution is even smaller since you won't be smiting all the time.

When you are trying to burst down an add with low HP you want consistent DPS, you don't want crit. I recommend you sit down and calculate what the chances of getting 15% crits in 10 casts if you have 25% on gear. I promise you will be surprised.

My assertion has nothing to do with "not understanding tight enrage timers". In has to do with basic maths: If a total DPS contribution is below the normal variation in DPS then its insignificant. For disc changes in playstyle and swapping trinkets are a much bigger increase than regearing with DPS in mind, so there is no reason for a disc priest to bother gearing with DPS in mind. Do a max DPS rotation and swap trinkets instead and keep your gear optimised for healing.

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I just noticed that in the PTR penance is now a 9sec CD. That changes things with haste slightly. It means haste can now be used to shave off a smite rather than cast an extra smite and shave some time off the penance CD, but I think haste is still the best stat for atonement.