TBC Shadow Priest 101: How to Melt Faces Effectively - Page 39

SamAdams · 03/31/08, 5:59 PM

After a dozen attemps on Kalecgos using Timbal's Focusing Crystal:

Total ↓ % Hits Avg Crits% Max Resist% Mitigated%
76 522 3% 119 540 10% 967 2.40% 2.40%

Wogan · 04/01/08, 12:46 AM

Is there any solid word on how good Shattered Sun Pendant of Acumen is for shadow priests? I'm Aldor but I'm interested in both procs.

I'm specifically thinking about comparisons with Ritssyn's Lost Pendant, though of course how it stacks up to top end amulets is interesting too.

For the Aldor version, napkin math assuming a 45 second cooldown on the proc, and assuming a good proc rate (30-50%) gives it a rough value of around 20 spell damage, bringing the amulet up to around 57 damage. How inaccurate is this?

Graf · 04/01/08, 5:09 AM

Originally Posted by Wogan

Is there any solid word on how good Shattered Sun Pendant of Acumen is for shadow priests? I'm Aldor but I'm interested in both procs.

I'm specifically thinking about comparisons with Ritssyn's Lost Pendant, though of course how it stacks up to top end amulets is interesting too.

For the Aldor version, napkin math assuming a 45 second cooldown on the proc, and assuming a good proc rate (30-50%) gives it a rough value of around 20 spell damage, bringing the amulet up to around 57 damage. How inaccurate is this?

Think it will end up as pretty accurate, and placing it next to Vindicator's Pendant of Subjugation which has 12 more STA.

Kalman · 04/01/08, 9:41 AM

Originally Posted by Graf

Think it will end up as pretty accurate, and placing it next to Vindicator's Pendant of Subjugation which has 12 more STA.

And [Loop of Cursed Bones], at 32+(27*K) where K is your haste evaluation. At 0.8, it evals out to 54 - at 1.0, it evals out to 59.

cheebamonkey · 04/01/08, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by SamAdams

After a dozen attemps on Kalecgos using Timbal's Focusing Crystal:

Total ↓ % Hits Avg Crits% Max Resist% Mitigated%
76 522 3% 119 540 10% 967 2.40% 2.40%

Last night on brutallus my timbals did 6652 over the course of 5:58 while the other shadow priest in the guild got 9523. This means that my trinket was worth 81 sp and his was worth 97 sp. For further breakdowns

Damage   Hits   Average Hit  Crit %   Max Crit  Missed   Mittigated 

6652      10        586        7%        783     15.3%       4.1%
 
9523      11        530       26%       1116         0         8%

His over 1k crit leads me to belive that the [Chaotic Skyfire Diamond] is effecting it since the other shadow priest had it and I did not. But really this just goes to show how powerful this trinket can be when you are lucky and how good it still is when you are not lucky.

Caligula · 04/01/08, 12:40 PM

3% more crit damage doesn't account for an extra 400 damage. Something else has to be going on there. Maybe your crit was partially resisted or some other debuff was affecting his crit at the time.

cheebamonkey · 04/01/08, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Caligula

3% more crit damage doesn't account for an extra 400 damage. Something else has to be going on there. Maybe your crit was partially resisted or some other debuff was affecting his crit at the time.

He also could have had his crit hit when imp sb was up while mine didn't.

Hesekiel · 04/02/08, 4:24 AM

Here are some number from our 4 hour session on Brutallus yesterday:

Shadow Bolt (Shadow)
Total damage: 79 821
Average damage: 530
Max crit: 1215

I think I had the trinket critting even more couple days ago, something like 1250 or so. It's pretty clear that at least Curse of Shadows, Shadow Vulnerability and Improved Shadow Bolt were up that time, tho it might be possible that we had the proc from oldskool [Nightfall] too. Overall, Timbal seems to be doing 1-3% damage when compared between tries.

On a sidenote, [Nightfall] also made me crit 5618 with Mind Blast.

For full parse of our raid, click here

edit. We're having little problems on our warlock sector, so Curse of Shadows was up in only few tries

Beatus · 04/02/08, 5:21 AM

Originally Posted by Hesekiel

I think I had the trinket critting even more couple days ago, something like 1250 or so. It's pretty clear that at least Curse of Shadows, Shadow Vulnerability and Improved Shadow Bolt were up that time, tho it might be possible that we had the proc from oldskool [Nightfall] too.

Nightfall causes spell damage to be increased. The timbal's damage is shadow, but no spelldamage, so I would say no.
Also, I've had a 1250ish crit with it too, with the debuffs you listed all applied.

Kalman · 04/02/08, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Beatus

Nightfall causes spell damage to be increased. The timbal's damage is shadow, but no spelldamage, so I would say no.
Also, I've had a 1250ish crit with it too, with the debuffs you listed all applied.

Spell damage is anything non-physical in nature; for example, Misery increases *spell* damage by 5% - but it applies to rogue poisons. So, yes, Timbal's damage *is* spell damage.

Natt · 04/02/08, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

And [Loop of Cursed Bones], at 32+(27*K) where K is your haste evaluation. At 0.8, it evals out to 54 - at 1.0, it evals out to 59.

If no healer wants it [Brooch of Nature's Mercy] seems decent with 25damage and 33 haste. (No stamina though, but 19 spirit).

warheathen · 04/03/08, 12:30 PM

If I have hex shrunken head, crusade and Timbal's, which 2 do i go with? I would think timbal and crusade but i am not sure.

Balkoth · 04/03/08, 12:36 PM

Assuming for a minute that Timbal's is best, it comes down to the [Hex Shrunken Head] or [Darkmoon Card: Crusade].

The Hex Shrunken Head has a base damage of 53 and an On Use for 211. The highest uptime for this use is going to be 16.6% of the time (20/120), which averages out to 35. Note that it is actually higher due to being able to use it in ideal circumstances and get a higher benefit.

The Crusade card gives, best case, 80 damage. Worst case (assuming you use it on cooldown) the Hex Shrunken Head provides 88 damage. Used correctly, it offers more. Therefore, you should use Timbal's and the Head.

warheathen · 04/03/08, 1:20 PM

I understand what you are saying, but being that 83% of the time you will only be sitting at 53 damage and 16.6% of the time you will be at 88 or a little higher, wouldnt it be better to just go with the crusade being that is yeilds 80 damage 100% of the time?

tedv · 04/03/08, 1:43 PM

Originally Posted by warheathen

I understand what you are saying, but being that 83% of the time you will only be sitting at 53 damage and 16.6% of the time you will be at 88 or a little higher, wouldnt it be better to just go with the crusade being that is yeilds 80 damage 100% of the time?

88 is the net average. 5/6ths of the time you are at 53 damage and 1/6th of the time you are at 53 + 211 = 264 damage. 53 * 5/6 + 264 * 1/6 = 88.1666, which is greater than 80.

Aural · 04/03/08, 1:51 PM

War, it's not 80 spell damage 100% of the time. It takes 10 spell casts to ramp up Crusade, and depending on the type of fight, there's always the chance of stacks dropping. Stuns, Silences, having to hold DPS... hell, even having to move and getting a resist or two while running.

I've got Timbals, Crusade and the icon (I never win the hex head), and I often favor icon over Crusade because it isn't nearly as finicky. You get Fatal Attraction on Mother? Stack drops. Dodging RoF and getting howled on Azgalor? Stack drops. Running to max range on Illidan before the shadow demons? Stack drops.

Timbals is wonderful. Shadowbolts were 3% of my damage on our first Illidan kill.

Caligula · 04/03/08, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by tedv

88 is the net average. 5/6ths of the time you are at 53 damage and 1/6th of the time you are at 53 + 211 = 264 damage. 53 * 5/6 + 264 * 1/6 = 88.1666, which is greater than 80.

This is also basically the worst case scenario (assuming you use it when the CD is up). Popping this trinket during heroism/bloodlust and probably with a destruction potion and drums(if you have that kind of group setup) means Hex is going to give quite a bit more damage during that time period. No matter how you look at it though it's an upgrade from the card.

Rickrolled · 04/03/08, 4:57 PM

I'm new to the whole shadowpriest thing. Been shadow for a little over a month now and mostly geared myself out. Since speccing according to this guide with the imp. mindblast cast it seems i can't get my GCD's to fit quite together like i want to. Does anyone have some specific rotation suggestions for someone in my gear level ?

Armory Link: The World of Warcraft Armory

Thanks in Advance

mutagen · 04/03/08, 5:14 PM

Rickrolled, at your gear level I'd go 4/5 IMB and put the extra point into Shadow Power. You'll be fitting 2 Mind Flay's between Mind Blast or a Mind Flay and a pair of GCDs (Dot Refresh, SW

) between Mind Blasts.

As you gear up more Haste you can go 5/5 IMB and fit 2 2.75second Mind Flays between the Mind Blast cooldown.

Don't think in terms of a specific rotation, think of spell priority. You need to always be thinking 3 seconds ahead of what you're currently casting and considering which of your DoTs are expiring, when your MD / SW

are coming off cooldown and what the best thing to cast next is going to be.

Beatus · 04/07/08, 5:23 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Spell damage is anything non-physical in nature; for example, Misery increases *spell* damage by 5% - but it applies to rogue poisons. So, yes, Timbal's damage *is* spell damage.

Do you have any source for this, as I am pretty sure it's inaccurate. For all I know, there's a distinct difference between *shadow damage* and *shadow spell damage*. Example: wand damage being magic in nature, but not spell damage.
By your logic, timbal's should also scale with your spell damage, which it obviously doesn't.

Endahl · 04/07/08, 5:53 AM

What Kalman said doesn't mean Timbal's should scale with spell damage. There's shadow spells and then there's effects which deal shadow damage -- a school of spell damage -- that aren't considered player-cast spells and thus don't receive damage and healing bonuses. The umbrella term "spell damage" still covers both types of effects, and both types are equally affected by spell vulnerabilities, resistances and immunities.

lightstrike · 04/07/08, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by Beatus

Do you have any source for this, as I am pretty sure it's inaccurate. For all I know, there's a distinct difference between *shadow damage* and *shadow spell damage*. Example: wand damage being magic in nature, but not spell damage.
By your logic, timbal's should also scale with your spell damage, which it obviously doesn't.

AFAIK, spell damage is anything not originating from a melee swing, ranged hit, or the environment. Wands deal ranged magic damage. The trinket deals spell damage.
It doesn't scale with your spell damage, most likely, simply because it's either not flagged to, or flagged not to.

Kalman · 04/07/08, 9:34 AM

It is, however, a very nice trinket. After a night spent wiping to Brutallus, I have it at around 1.8-2% of my total damage (~20 DPS). This was a night where we didn't have CoS or even ISB, so this is more or less the worst case scenario.

Beatus, nothing about my statement implies that Timbal's should scale with your +dmg, any more than rogue poisons scale with a rogue wearing +dmg.

cheebamonkey · 04/08/08, 9:50 AM

After looking through various wws and armories for shadow preists in sunwell I started noticing a lot of shadow priests in t6 gear still get inner focus. I haven't had it in a long time and never have any mana issues even when tossing PWS up liberaly on fights like Kalecgos and Felmyst. I realize my gear is almost as good as it gets right now but I'm wondering first, why and second, when is it worth it to spec out of it? Or why is it worth it to stay specced into it given top of the line gear levels. In my case I found it far more valuable to get 2/2 imp VE for fights like felmyst and brutallus and also because, as I said mana really isn't an issue for us in T6.

Caligula · 04/08/08, 10:28 AM

I use it for the DPS increase more than anything (using it with MB), but now that we're on Felmyst I've been thinking about dropping it and putting at least 1 if not 2 points into Imp VE. Before Sunwell I really considered Imp VE as a hindrance to DPS (and in translation, mana return) on fights like Gurtogg and RoS. Does anyone working on Felmyst (or have downed Felmyst) have any threat issues going with 2/2 Imp VE?