I've got a question bout group setups, not 100% sure if i should post it here, guess it should go in a warlock or mage thread or something but i tend to follow this thread mainly so just tought i'd dump it here.
My main reason for making this setup is that mages benefit most from the extra crit (returns of mana + ignite), while warlocks just get the critdmg ?
I think crit is at least as valuable for personal dps for a warlock as a mage + you get better ISB uptime that increases all shadow dps.
Regarding Kalman's threat test, am I reading that right that neither Shadow affinity nor Silent resolve works with VE? Shouldn't we be reporting this as a bug if the VE heals aren't counted as either shadow, holy or disc and doesn't get any threat reduction from any of our talents?
I was directed to this site by a friend who told me you might have some advice on improving my overall DPS. I have included my armory link and a WWS from last night's Gruul's attempt. I have been struggling to maintain 800+ dps for the last few weeks, and after reading this thread I am going to work on my DOT timing and such. I am also in the middle of farming mats for the enchants I have been procrastinating on. Is there anything else you can see from the Armory or WWS parse that I can work on?
In case it matters, my guild is just now entering the T6 environment with the so-called "free pass", and we are taking down at least 1-2 new bosses a week, so T6 gear should soon be available to me.
Most Warlocks are going to be hit capped with their gems/setup and prob won't have much to switch out. The 3% CRIT is usually negligible on ISB uptime as well. In general, Locks go best with the Resto Shaman group for Mana Tide, leading to less Life Taps.
Regarding Kalman's threat test, am I reading that right that neither Shadow affinity nor Silent resolve works with VE? Shouldn't we be reporting this as a bug if the VE heals aren't counted as either shadow, holy or disc and doesn't get any threat reduction from any of our talents?
That's exactly what my test implies - VE healing is not receiving threat reduction from SR or SA.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Most Warlocks are going to be hit capped with their gems/setup and prob won't have much to switch out. The 3% CRIT is usually negligible on ISB uptime as well. In general, Locks go best with the Resto Shaman group for Mana Tide, leading to less Life Taps.
Shadowpriests mean a lot less lifetapping then just a mana tide. 3% Crit is NOT negligible to ISB uptime, seeing as I always want ISB up, and I'm burning off his charges with Mindblast and shadowword death. With the totem and moonkin aura, my lock gets another 8% Crit. That's pretty sweet for me.
Shame on you for leaving the class we rely on most for damage boosting out in the cold =-P
For reference, I'm usually in a group with our top dps destro lock, our top dps mage, our Boomkin and our top dps elemental shaman. It works out wonderfully.
Shadowpriests mean a lot less lifetapping then just a mana tide.
To back up this point, having a 1400 DPS shadow priest in my group can reduce the number of life taps I need over a 6 minute standstill fight (Brutallus basically) from 17 to 3. That's about 19 extra seconds of DPS time at my haste rating.
Most Warlocks are going to be hit capped with their gems/setup and prob won't have much to switch out. The 3% CRIT is usually negligible on ISB uptime as well. In general, Locks go best with the Resto Shaman group for Mana Tide, leading to less Life Taps.
A) As Warlocks progress in Sunwell we get an increasing hit cap issue.
B) A proper spriest will return ~20k mana on Brutallus, thats 9-10 taps less.
I suppose its since we don't have a full time Ele Sham in every one of our fights, but I can't see making your main gear set rely on around ToW hit. At least for us, too many of the fights in Sunwell so far have called for separate individual groups which can't be stacked to full synergy, ala Kalec's portal groups and Felmyst's Mass Dispel groups. On these fights we're often pushing our number of Ranged DPS as is and unable to bring an Ele Sham(We run 3 Hunters) in the first place, so our Locks building their main gear set for assuming ToW just isn't ideal. Maybe our locks are just too lazy to have multiple sets for different situations.
We also run 3 Warlocks, and the last sim I ran showed 3% crit for 2 of our Locks as a very small increase in ISB uptime. Meanwhile our Mages are ususally our top DPS and gain extra benefit during Molten Fury from the 3% crit. The Mana Tide also can turn those 3 Life Taps into 0 Life Taps needed throughout a fight, still increasing DPS for the Locks.
I fear we're getting horribly offtopic, but I guess what I'm trying to get at is the dif between an Ele Sham with Mages or Locks is situational per your guild, how many Locks you bring, how much DPS your Locks do vs your Mages, how good your SPs are, how on top of using Mana pots your Locks are, etc. It's going to vary per guild which is the best setup.
I suppose its since we don't have a full time Ele Sham in every one of our fights, but I can't see making your main gear set rely on around ToW hit. At least for us, too many of the fights in Sunwell so far have called for separate individual groups which can't be stacked to full synergy, ala Kalec's portal groups and Felmyst's Mass Dispel groups. On these fights we're often pushing our number of Ranged DPS as is and unable to bring an Ele Sham(We run 3 Hunters) in the first place, so our Locks building their main gear set for assuming ToW just isn't ideal. Maybe our locks are just too lazy to have multiple sets for different situations.
We also run 3 Warlocks, and the last sim I ran showed 3% crit for 2 of our Locks as a very small increase in ISB uptime. Meanwhile our Mages are ususally our top DPS and gain extra benefit during Molten Fury from the 3% crit. The Mana Tide also can turn those 3 Life Taps into 0 Life Taps needed throughout a fight, still increasing DPS for the Locks.
I fear we're getting horribly offtopic, but I guess what I'm trying to get at is the dif between an Ele Sham with Mages or Locks is situational per your guild, how many Locks you bring, how much DPS your Locks do vs your Mages, how good your SPs are, how on top of using Mana pots your Locks are, etc. It's going to vary per guild which is the best setup.
I feel like you are misunderstanding what people are saying. The comment wasn't "I gear with ToW in mind", it was "As my gear progresses in Sunwell, I start to lose a lot of the plus hit I had before". Sunwell gear doesn't have nearly as much +hit as prior gear pieces did... it's so noticeable that even Shadowpriests (who have the easiest time hit capping thanks to talents) have put +hit back into the mix for gear choices. Prior to Sunwell, it was assumed that a shadowpriest would reach his spell hit cap just because it was on so many pieces.
Note that the comment was "I went from 17 lifetaps to 3, thanks to the shadowpriest." Substituting a shaman's mana tide doesn't bring it from 3 to 0, it brings it from 17 to 14.
The bottom line here is really that your returns will justify you either way. Both warlocks and mages get a DPS increase from having shadowpriests in their group. If you've always been favoring mages over locks, then your mages will be topping the dps consistently. My guild has a lock bias (raid leader and his girlfriend both play locks, and they usually top the damage meters. However, we have a raiding boomkin and elemental shaman that they get, along with me, so they can shadowbolt spam until the meters explode.
I agree that it's fairly situational, and that you can really choose what works best for your guild. As a shadowpriest, I'm biased because of how valuable ISB is to my DPS, and thus my mana returns.
To get things back in the "How do I melt faces?" swing of things, I'm still trying to figure out how to up my dps. I've gotten better about not clipping my dots, and I'll have the 4 pieces T6 bonus once Illidan drops the robe.
For WWS, here's my guild link, and here's one of the latest BT runs. I got smushed by Supremus early on and I was the first ghost on Teron.
To get things back in the "How do I melt faces?" swing of things, I'm still trying to figure out how to up my dps. I've gotten better about not clipping my dots, and I'll have the 4 pieces T6 bonus once Illidan drops the robe.
For WWS, here's my guild link, and here's one of the latest BT runs. I got smushed by Supremus early on and I was the first ghost on Teron.
Any advice/help would be great.
Unfortunately your WWS isn't allowing me to pull reports, not sure why that is. However I am a shadow priest that just recently figured out how to really maximize my DPS, and what's strange is I've found, at least, that it's almost something that can't be explained. You can explain the general things to do, but there's small nuances in my opinion that are just learned over time on a personal level. That being said, your gear and talent choices look fairly solid to me. I do question the use of Martyrdom, but it's not hurting your DPS, I just find that 3/3 Imp PWS is better (at least for me). Also, you have a fishing pole equipped and are 1% under hit cap, so I'm assuming your usual weaponry gives you the rest of your hit - if not, that needs to be fixed as it really does make a difference.
Basically, if you are watching your DoTs very carefully and making sure you catch it as soon as they expire or are pushed off, if they're up 100% of the time, if you're using MB and SWD as soon as they are available (with the exception of situations, obviously, where SWD is not a wise idea) you should be pushing your DPS to its limit. It's all about mastering the timing of GCD and making sure you're not hesitating/wasting time at all. You also want to be very careful about prematurely ending Mind Flay, as I used to do that and it was definitely a DPS loss.
Unfortunately your WWS isn't allowing me to pull reports, not sure why that is. However I am a shadow priest that just recently figured out how to really maximize my DPS, and what's strange is I've found, at least, that it's almost something that can't be explained. You can explain the general things to do, but there's small nuances in my opinion that are just learned over time on a personal level. That being said, your gear and talent choices look fairly solid to me. I do question the use of Martyrdom, but it's not hurting your DPS, I just find that 3/3 Imp PWS is better (at least for me). Also, you have a fishing pole equipped and are 1% under hit cap, so I'm assuming your usual weaponry gives you the rest of your hit - if not, that needs to be fixed as it really does make a difference.
Basically, if you are watching your DoTs very carefully and making sure you catch it as soon as they expire or are pushed off, if they're up 100% of the time, if you're using MB and SWD as soon as they are available (with the exception of situations, obviously, where SWD is not a wise idea) you should be pushing your DPS to its limit. It's all about mastering the timing of GCD and making sure you're not hesitating/wasting time at all. You also want to be very careful about prematurely ending Mind Flay, as I used to do that and it was definitely a DPS loss.
I generally snag Martyrdom over imp shield since I'm on a pvp server and shields are just dispell-bait most of the time.
My regular gear is the Hyjal trash mace (22 hit) and the orb. Been thinking about getting the fetish, but I just can't commit yet.
Any tips for not cutting off mindflay? I've been having trouble telling if I'm clipping mindflay or not.
I generally snag Martyrdom over imp shield since I'm on a pvp server and shields are just dispell-bait most of the time.
My regular gear is the Hyjal trash mace (22 hit) and the orb. Been thinking about getting the fetish, but I just can't commit yet.
Any tips for not cutting off mindflay? I've been having trouble telling if I'm clipping mindflay or not.
If you use quartz you can load a custom skin, which you can use to create tick marks at 1/3 and 2/3 cast bar (which should allow you to see where each tick of MF is). Making the casting bar that stretched out (really long) helps too.
I've found that Mind Flay ticks almost appear to be handled client side (even though I'm not suggesting that they are) in that if you clip a flay exactly at the 2 tick mark as indicated by Quartz you will never lose the 2nd tick. However, even if you try to clip even fractionally before the 2nd tick mark to account for lag (a la oldschool /stopcasting) the 2nd tick seems to be lost every time. I also find my 3rd Mind Flay ticks can be lost in a similar manner. Can anyone confirm this behavior?
I've found that Mind Flay ticks almost appear to be handled client side (even though I'm not suggesting that they are) in that if you clip a flay exactly at the 2 tick mark as indicated by Quartz you will never lose the 2nd tick. However, even if you try to clip even fractionally before the 2nd tick mark to account for lag (a la oldschool /stopcasting) the 2nd tick seems to be lost every time. I also find my 3rd Mind Flay ticks can be lost in a similar manner. Can anyone confirm this behavior?
I just tried it now and got exactly the opposite behavior. I was clipping my mind flays by casting another mind flay though, so I cast two mind flays clipped when the bar was right before the 2 second mark, and then one full duration mind flay. I got 7 ticks of mind flay every time.
I use a macro for my Mind Flaying -- /cast [nochanneling:Mind Flay] Mind Flay
This will keep you from clipping your Mind Flay with another Mind Flay. If you're clipping your Mind Flay with any other spell, you're most likely casting a higher priority spell, so as long as you're smart about it, you should be fine.
I use a macro for my Mind Flaying -- /cast [nochanneling:Mind Flay] Mind Flay
This will keep you from clipping your Mind Flay with another Mind Flay. If you're clipping your Mind Flay with any other spell, you're most likely casting a higher priority spell, so as long as you're smart about it, you should be fine.
That macro also adds lag into your Mind Flay as nochannelling macros require server-side response.
For what it's worth, I've been running 0/11/50 the last couple nights in SWP (Kalec/Brut/Felmyst) with pretty good results. Since the mana regen isn't useful to me at this point, having Spell Warding to reduce incoming damage is certainly better. Fortunately our hpriests are cool with me making them do all the Fort buffing. Is it a big difference? Not really... but again, it's something I actually get use out of versus something I just plain don't use at all.
Also, Holy Nova to proc Spirit Tap on Felmyst skeletons is pretty hilarious.
Second, the thirds texture is incredibly useful. Much props to the creator.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
I use a macro for my Mind Flaying -- /cast [nochanneling:Mind Flay] Mind Flay
This will keep you from clipping your Mind Flay with another Mind Flay. If you're clipping your Mind Flay with any other spell, you're most likely casting a higher priority spell, so as long as you're smart about it, you should be fine.
Lately with the use of the thirds texture I've been clipping flays with other flays when I need to get four ticks. If you were to try doing a full 3 tick flay then 1 tick flay the spell following the 1 tick flay would be limited by the GCD.
Im sure this has been covered in the thread but i just want some reliable info that i can depend on. Im wondering, for a shadow priest?
-spell hit cap, ive seen 21%,16%... what is the spell hit cap for a shadow priest?
-spell crit rating, though this is not important, is there any percent that you try to achieve? or do u just rely on talent points and your gear?
-When looking at gear options, if maxed on spell hit rating, is it wise to swap out some gear for extra stats? stamina and intellect?
-One VERY important question i have is when/where should you be looking at replacing you Frozen Shadow weave Set? this question basically ties to the other one, obviously the FSW has superior damage to most gear but greatly lacks stats.
-After reaching your spell hit cap, the main thing you're goining for is damage? does spell haste play any importance for a SP?
I would greatly appreciate any help i can get on these topics, this is information that i desperatly need to be certain about.
Im sure this has been covered in the thread but i just want some reliable info that i can depend on. Im wondering, for a shadow priest?
Straight outta Altsville here, but these are basic questions.
-spell hit cap, ive seen 21%,16%... what is the spell hit cap for a shadow priest?
16%. If you have 5/5 Shadow Focus, that means 76 spellhit from gear (64 if you're Draenei).
-spell crit rating, though this is not important, is there any percent that you try to achieve? or do u just rely on talent points and your gear?
Spellcrit is the least important stat for a Shadow Priest.
-When looking at gear options, if maxed on spell hit rating, is it wise to swap out some gear for extra stats? stamina and intellect?
Depends on what you're losing apart from excess spell hit. Spell damage is your prime requisite because if you get enough of it, your mana pool becomes unlimited and you regenerate most attacks that don't kill you outright. Stamina is much more important to you than Intellect, as it makes it safer to cast Shadow Word: Death.
-One VERY important question i have is when/where should you be looking at replacing you Frozen Shadow weave Set?
Tier 6, generally. FSW Boots are the best outside Sunwell.
-After reaching your spell hit cap, the main thing you're goining for is damage? does spell haste play any importance for a SP?
Once you're hitcapped, spell damage is your one and only consideration. There does come a point where spell haste is equal to damage, but it's way ahead of where you are.
Spell haste is also very good at screwing up your rotations unless you get the exact amount needed to fit an extra GCD in between each renewal of Vampiric Touch. You may find that a little will help you if you have latency issues, though.
04/28/08, 9:14 PM
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