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Old 04/10/08, 12:51 PM   #151
Bendyr
Piston Honda
 
Undead Rogue
 
Dragonmaw
Ack, good catch, turgid. I changed my hypothetical gems mid-flight and i forgot to update the post.

I've updated the OP, but here is the breakdown again:

I can either have:
-11 stam
+4 int
+21 spirit
+47 +heal
-18 mp5

or 3 seconds extra on my renew. In another thread, Jayde has modeled the 4-piece t5 set bonus as worth 23 mp5, just based on the fact that you are refreshing your MT renew every 18 seconds instead of every 15 seconds. I have 3/5 Mental Agility, so my Rank 12 renew costs 423 mana. With T5 4 piece I'm casting renew 3.33333 times every minute instead of 4 times every minute, so i'm saving 282 mana every minute, so it's effectively 23 mp5, on one tank alone.

If I am keeping renews on 2 tanks, the efficiency goes up to 46 mp5, right? There is also some additional efficiency from having the extra 1.5 gcd every 3 minutes, but that seems even more difficult to model...

Last edited by Bendyr : 04/10/08 at 1:00 PM.

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Old 04/10/08, 12:55 PM   #152
Tiranar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Staghelm
I wanted to submit our 4/8 Hyjal and 4/1 Black Temple WWS for peer review. I am looking for criticism of my priests, as I want to ensure that I am optimizing my priests in the most efficient way possible. If you need more data, I have plenty more reports available. Thank you in advance for your help.

4/8 Hyjal Wow Web Stats

4/1 Black Temple Wow Web Stats

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Old 04/10/08, 1:16 PM   #153
Jayde
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by Tiranar View Post
I wanted to submit our 4/8 Hyjal and 4/1 Black Temple WWS for peer review. I am looking for criticism of my priests, as I want to ensure that I am optimizing my priests in the most efficient way possible. If you need more data, I have plenty more reports available. Thank you in advance for your help.

4/8 Hyjal Wow Web Stats

4/1 Black Temple Wow Web Stats
Can't say I see anything troublesome in those WWS reports. The only particular oddity I can see is Giggitti's relative performance on your Teron kill, but not sure what the situation was there. (Guessing ghosted?) Otherwise seems generally normal for Priest performance in BT/Hyjal.

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Old 04/10/08, 2:59 PM   #154
constantius
Soda Popinski
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Windrunner
The only oddity I see in those parses is that your resto shamans are slacking.

Over a full BT clear, I pull even with the best resto shamans in my guild ... and the reason I do so is RoS and Bloodboil. Without those two fights, I am consistently lower in total healing done. If nothing else, semi-intelligent targetting on trash should pull them ahead for total effective healing done.

Given that your parse only shows up to Teron, both of your resto shamans should be topping the overall meter, as a general rule of thumb. More healing on trash, more healing on Naj'entus, more healing on Teron ...

Wow Web Stats was our last full BT clear; notice how I'm second overall, but realistically only high on 3 or 4 fights? That's mostly trash healing pulling me up, and I still didn't beat Karn (CURSE YOU CHAIN HEAL) for total healing done.

Last edited by constantius : 04/10/08 at 3:08 PM.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

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Old 04/10/08, 3:26 PM   #155
Starfire
Honorary Toastr
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Dragonblight
Really? I tend to top healing meters on Najentus by keeping renew up the majority of the time, using prayer of mending every cooldown and the occasional flash heal/power word: shield for bubbles. I rarely even coh for it.

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Old 04/10/08, 3:40 PM   #156
Pockey
Glass Joe
 
Pockey's Avatar
 
Draenei Priest
 
Cenarius
are those benchmarks for buffed or unbuffed?

and I have the healing gear spreadsheet, but whats the viabiltiy of the primal mooncloth set now that static mp5 has been dethroned?

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Old 04/10/08, 3:43 PM   #157
Tiranar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Staghelm
Originally Posted by constantius View Post
The only oddity I see in those parses is that your resto shamans are slacking.

Over a full BT clear, I pull even with the best resto shamans in my guild ... and the reason I do so is RoS and Bloodboil. Without those two fights, I am consistently lower in total healing done. If nothing else, semi-intelligent targetting on trash should pull them ahead for total effective healing done.

Given that your parse only shows up to Teron, both of your resto shamans should be topping the overall meter, as a general rule of thumb. More healing on trash, more healing on Naj'entus, more healing on Teron ...

Wow Web Stats was our last full BT clear; notice how I'm second overall, but realistically only high on 3 or 4 fights? That's mostly trash healing pulling me up, and I still didn't beat Karn (CURSE YOU CHAIN HEAL) for total healing done.

Thank you for some direction, I copy/pasted this into the resto Shaman healing thread to get some answers. What is your view on IDS? I have one 1 CoH and 1 IDS.

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Old 04/10/08, 4:03 PM   #158
 Nicarras
Keyboard Cowboy
 
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Undead Priest
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Tiranar View Post
Thank you for some direction, I copy/pasted this into the resto Shaman healing thread to get some answers. What is your view on IDS? I have one 1 CoH and 1 IDS.
Sounds perfect to me, with every holy priest you add being CoH. Our typical raid setup is the same as you mentioned and we have full cleared BT/Hyjal.

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Old 04/10/08, 4:15 PM   #159
Lightshadow
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Stormrage
Something that it seemed like worth the math is quantifying the value of extra int given all the 2.4 changes -- I feel like it's now a stat that should be taken rather more seriously.

Int has two benefits: the easy one to model is the increase in one's mana pool, the harder one is the extra spirit regen it provides. (There's also a marginal benefit to one's crit %, but I'll leave that for another day).

For the easy one, each point of int provides 15 mana (16.5 assuming you have kings). Converting that to mp5 is pretty simple: 12 ticks in a minute over x minutes in a given fight gives us (1.375 / x). If you're looking at a shorter fight (say 6 minutes, like brutallus), that's ~.23 mp5 per int. I've often heard it argued that one's mana pool is largely irrelevant based on this since there's only 1 percentage-based mana regen effect (tide), but it's worth noting that if you get an innervate during a fight, you're almost certain to end up topped off (especially with an earring), and thus you are getting that mana back. (Same thing applies to fights like Illidan with long breaks in the middle that are likely to leave you topped off). If you expect to get mana tide, you'll get an extra 4.125 mana back every 5 minutes (bumping a point of int up to ~.299 mp5), and if you get an innervate halfway through a longer fight, double the effect.

For the harder one, it really boils down to the marginal effect of another point of int on your spirit regen, which depends heavily on your current int and spirit levels.

5 * 0.0093271 * Spirit * Square_root ( Intellect )
So the marginal value of int (in terms of O5SR, assuming that you have kings) is

 5* 0.0093271 * Spirit * [Sqare_root( intellect+1.1 ) - Square_root( intellect ) ]
Taking into account the 5SR, assuming 3/3 meditation:

 (1-.7*I5SR) * 5 * 0.0093271 * Spirit * [Sqare_root( intellect+1.1 ) - Square_root( intellect ) ]
The algebra, however, isn't all that enlightening. To make it more concrete, take a typical T5/T6 priest with 800 spirit and 650 int who spends 70% of their time I5SR, this gives us approximately .410 effective mp5. Together with the benefits of a larger mana pool on a 6 minute fight, we get something like .64 effective mp5. For comparison, under the same assumptions, a non-human holy priest would get about .7 effective mp5 from 1 point of spirit (taking the difference wrt spirit rather than int). Obviously spirit has other benefits (extra +healing in particular), but from a pure regen perspective, they're reasonably close. If we assume a somewhat higher I5SR time, the values become much closer (.604 for spirit vs. .583 for int @ 80% I5SR for instance).

One somewhat surprising thing to come out of this is that once into T5 level gear, 4 int > 2mp5 in terms of regen under basically any circumstances.

The aforementioned spreadsheet that does most of these calculations is here. I didn't explicitly include the effect of innervate on the fight's length since you can do it yourself, and I neglected to include mana tide because I'm a slacker. (It's a constant bonus though, so I'm sure you can do it yourself)

One side note to the spreadsheet: I'm aware that blizzard (supposedly) does some really strange rounding in game that might significantly affect the marginal value of stats, but I've never actually seen a listing of how/where they round. If anyone would care to enlighten me (or I missed a posting of it), I'd appreciate it.

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Old 04/10/08, 4:31 PM   #160
constantius
Soda Popinski
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by Starfire View Post
Really? I tend to top healing meters on Najentus by keeping renew up the majority of the time, using prayer of mending every cooldown and the occasional flash heal/power word: shield for bubbles. I rarely even coh for it.
The main issues with this method are:

1) If you have good resto shamans, maybe 1 in 5 ticks of Renew will actually heal something.
2) Prayer of Mending doesn't attribute healing to you, so it's certainly not going to *help* you top WWS meters. It'll show up in Recount, which is a totally different story, and not what we're talking about.
3) CoH is mainly useful on Naj'entus for hitting a group you're not in who just took a splash. If 3 or more people are down 1k+ HP, CoH is the optimal choice for topping them up. It's low mana, instant cast, and ranged. Renews will just get overwritten before the second tick.

This isn't to say Renews aren't useful, but with good resto shamans, they're not the optimal choice for most healing. The shamans can't control their CHeal to keep it from topping up the person you just renewed.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

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Old 04/10/08, 6:38 PM   #161
Jayde
Great Tiger
 
Jayde's Avatar
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by constantius View Post
Wow Web Stats was our last full BT clear; notice how I'm second overall, but realistically only high on 3 or 4 fights? That's mostly trash healing pulling me up, and I still didn't beat Karn (CURSE YOU CHAIN HEAL) for total healing done.
I find with our setup that I tend to usually "win" on Naj'entus, simply due to a mix of using PoH on my group after tidal bursts, CoH on the melee group, and GH4/GH7 on single damaged people in-between--with heavy usage of Binding Heal if I get damaged at all.

All in all, I typically pull fairly even with our best Resto Shaman and we swap the 1/2 slot depending a bit on luck and how the fights go. I agree that RoS/BB are usually the prime fights--however he usually is just behind me on RoS due to using Healing Stream totem in P2/P3 which apparently gets full bonuses from the auras and ticks for a ridiculous amount. BB is kinda a no-brainer for Priests though.

But, point being, a well-geared Shaman should be very high in BT. Many of the fights and trash are uber for Chain Heal, so it shouldn't be difficult to put up big numbers.

If only WWS tracked Prayer of Mending...

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Old 04/10/08, 6:55 PM   #162
Tiranar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Staghelm
You know, I have always been annoyed about how PoM and the final Bloom from LB isn't credited to the healer. I would think this would be an easy fix, but it is Blizzard after all. Again thanks for the advice!

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Old 04/10/08, 8:00 PM   #163
Hybred
Glass Joe
 
Hybred's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Tiranar View Post
You know, I have always been annoyed about how PoM and the final Bloom from LB isn't credited to the healer. I would think this would be an easy fix, but it is Blizzard after all. Again thanks for the advice!
I'm happy it isn't. A Mending is equal to a Shield Slam for a tank.

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Old 04/11/08, 4:04 AM   #164
Morakk
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
<orz>
Ner'zhul
The only time I use Renew for anything other than tank healing is when we only have one CoH priest for Bloodboil healing; if the other healers are smart and not on the raid Renew will keep up the people who are eating bloodboil but not in a full group of it (mostly people who get stuck in odd groups for totems/tank buffs).

Any other situation, healing isn't demanding enough that tank healers or other people can't cross heal, and renew just goes to waste. Or CoH is just better.

I still think it's worth it to keep up renew on the MT as much as time and mana and range allows. You mileage may vary; if you run with two good trees and two good paladins dedicated to tank healing, it might not be worth the mana.

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Old 04/11/08, 6:14 AM   #165
Jayde
Great Tiger
 
Jayde's Avatar
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Silvermoon (EU)
In regard to Renew usage, I find generally the following usage to be what I apply it to:
a) MT, pretty much always--kinda a no-brainer there, extra MT healing almost never hurts
b) Warlocks at medium mana, if they know to look for it--makes lifetapping safer and easier to manage
c) If I want to heal someone during a movement transition where PoM won't do anything

Otherwise, it just seems a bit too sluggish to get much use if you have quick healers.

Examples of c):
1) Archimonde while running back from air burst (if someone took more damage than the rest of the group after CoH)
2) Bloodboil while moving my group to and from the wall
3) Supremus while running around in P2
4) Movement-oriented trash, such as Hyjal

Can't think of too many other cases off the top of my head really.

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