Holy Raiding Compendium v2 - Page 54

Starfire · 08/01/08, 2:24 AM

25mp5/12 int vs. 26 healing... I guess it depends on how much you value the 2% threat reduction though. I'd take the mp5 over that amount of +heal any day.

Edit:
Anyone out there using [Ember Skyfire Diamond]? I figure at some point the 2% int is going to be worth more mp5 than the IED, but I am very uncertain of my mathematical skills in calculating said point.

• constantius · 08/01/08, 2:57 AM

Let's model IED as 18 Mp5, just for kicks. Let's say your raid-buffed intellect is 650 and your spirit the same. Modelling it that way gives a rough regen of 10 Mp5.

To make them equal works out (skipping all the boring math) to be a fairly simple quadratic equation in the end, and solves for more intellect than anyone will have, even in Wrath. Unfortunately. If it were 2% spirit, that'd be an easy upgrade.

[e] The number is roughly 1900 intellect.

Veldefice · 08/01/08, 3:24 AM

Originally Posted by Aeverius

Please understand that I am not being rude when I say this, but I used the "search this thread" function with the keyword "sliver," and came up with several discussions on it. Granted, they boil down to "This is a very very good trinket, you should use it," but that makes sense, considering.

First post is here. You'll need to click on the "permalink" button in the upper right corner to put it back in context and see the rest of the discussion, which continues for a couple of pages in between other posts about different things.

There is a ton of information to be had around here, but people are usually not going to find it for you; try to get better acquainted with the search function.

Hmm... when I said, I would check posts that I missed, it was from the middle of July right after that discussion you linked... Also, when I used the search function, I did it on all the forums, rather than this single thread, which was a mistake.

Odd that I missed the discussion or didn't pay attention to it.

Anyway, that answered my question, thank you for pointing it out.

Incoherence · 08/01/08, 3:34 AM

Originally Posted by Starfire

25mp5/12 int vs. 26 healing... I guess it depends on how much you value the 2% threat reduction though. I'd take the mp5 over that amount of +heal any day.

It's a really stupidly high amount of mp5 compared to 26 healing, and even the most die-hard of +healing stackers would be well served to take IED and sacrifice regen for haste somewhere else.

Maive · 08/01/08, 7:24 AM

I have a couple of questions about shackling on my holy priest. I'm in Kara right now and I've asked several people for focus macros, as well as tried the one on wowwiki. I can't get any of them to work. I think it's a problem with typing the macro correctly (spaces, maybe). Does anyone have an easy one?

Also, I read a little blurb on the wow forum that spell hit would increase your ability to keep a mob shackled. Does this sound right? And if so, what would be the minimum needed to improve the duration of my shackle? Thanks

pindle · 08/01/08, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Maive

I have a couple of questions about shackling on my holy priest. I'm in Kara right now and I've asked several people for focus macros, as well as tried the one on wowwiki. I can't get any of them to work. I think it's a problem with typing the macro correctly (spaces, maybe). Does anyone have an easy one?

Also, I read a little blurb on the wow forum that spell hit would increase your ability to keep a mob shackled. Does this sound right? And if so, what would be the minimum needed to improve the duration of my shackle? Thanks

Check this site: Useful macros for priests - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
I think I got the one I'm using from there as well.

Spell hit affects the chance your shackle spell will, well, hit. It will not increase its duration which is fixed (but can break at a random time still, which hit also doesn't affect). There aren't many priests actively seeking out spellhit gear for shackling purposes tho.

Hegen · 08/01/08, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by pindle

It will not increase its duration which is fixed (but can break at a random time still, which hit also doesn't affect).

In my experience and also according to the experimental data in some archived thread here at EJ spell hit is applied at every roll along the entire maximum duration of shackle.

So, it does not reduce the duration as such, but reduces the chance that shackle breaks prematurely.

This is why - if possible - shackling is usually done by shadow priests, not holy priests.

moink · 08/01/08, 11:57 AM

I sometimes put on a couple of spellhit pieces for shackle-heavy fights, depending on how healing-intensive the fight is as well.

Shadow priests have the advantage of not only more spellhit on their regular gear, but also that they can take a moment away from dps-ing at pretty much any time to re-shackle, while we have to re-shackle more often to make sure that the shackle doesn't end during a heal-intensive period.

Tulani · 08/01/08, 4:03 PM

Originally Posted by Maive

I have a couple of questions about shackling on my holy priest. I'm in Kara right now and I've asked several people for focus macros, as well as tried the one on wowwiki. I can't get any of them to work. I think it's a problem with typing the macro correctly (spaces, maybe). Does anyone have an easy one?

Also, I read a little blurb on the wow forum that spell hit would increase your ability to keep a mob shackled. Does this sound right? And if so, what would be the minimum needed to improve the duration of my shackle? Thanks

The others above me have answered about spell hit, however, the best way to improve the duration of the cast as a holy priest is simply to recast shackle whenever the chance arises. Generally, when I was doing kara (arguably a very shackle heavy zone) I would reshackle whenever I wasn't healing, and my general healing "rotation" looked like

Renew > GHeal > reshackle > Gheal > Flash Heal > Reshackle

etc. I did it a lot, because I really did not want it to break.

As for a good macro, my shackle macro is this:

#showtooltip
/clearfocus [modifier:shift]
/clearfocus [button:2]
/clearfocus [target=focus,dead]
/clearfocus [target=focus,noexists]
/focus [target=focus,noexists]
/cast [target=focus] Shackle Undead

I've used it since Karazhan, and also use it on my mage for polymorphs, and I gave it to the guild warlocks for banish.

Constie · 08/01/08, 6:02 PM

From the sticky on the official Priest forums:

Q: My guild is having me Shackle Undead in Karazhan. What Spellhit/Spellpen do I need?

A: Shackle Undead is a Holy spell. Since there is not a Holy Resist stat, Spell Penetration gear will not help you. The level 71 Undead require 4% Spellhit on your gear to minimize breaks. This is equal to 50.4 Spellhit Rating. Moroes' level 70 adds only require 3% Spellhit (37.8 rating) for maximum effectiveness. For more information on how resists work in general, see the Stats section in this guide.

Not everyone agrees with me here, but I don't recommend casting Shackle "every few seconds." Each periodic check is the same as the initial resistance check. Instead, start casting and cancel repeatedly if you want to improve average response time to a break. Better yet have a Mage or Hunter stand ready to freeze the mob as you reapply Shackle. Also, lower Rank Shackle is no more likely to break than top Rank...but with proper Spellhit your Shackle will often outlast Rank 1's 30 second limit.

crimsonsentinel · 08/01/08, 6:21 PM

My recommendation is to put hit enchants on PVP helm and gloves, those 2 should put you near cap for most shackle purposes. Spell hit will also help your mana burns/fears/dispels in pvp so the gear isn't "wasted" either.

pindle · 08/04/08, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by pindle

Check this site: Useful macros for priests - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
I think I got the one I'm using from there as well.

Spell hit affects the chance your shackle spell will, well, hit. It will not increase its duration which is fixed (but can break at a random time still, which hit also doesn't affect). There aren't many priests actively seeking out spellhit gear for shackling purposes tho.

I was under the impression, when my priest was still alt, that shackle duration was non-influencable (sp?), no matter how much hit and penetration you stacked. I tested it a little bit then with the crap gear that I had, but didn't have much spellhit on it by then. I figured the shadow hit talent would've worked for it - and since shackles still broke as early-ish, I wasn't too convinced about hit affecting it.

Now, reading these posts I did a fast search and tada (note - I have nothing to back this statement up, just something that seems worthy of quoting here):

Crowd Control: For Shackling and Mind Control in instances, likely the highest level mob you will have to keep controlled as a level 70 player will be level 72. Shackle Undead is a holy school spell that doesn’t gain the benefit of any of the priest hit talents. You need 5% spell hit (4% for draenei) in order to minimize the chances of your Shackle Undead spell from being resisted or breaking early. This would mean a 63 spell hit rating (51 for draenei). (Source: Spell Hit, Spell Penetration, and Resistances A Dwarf Priest)

In short: you need hit gear, not the hit talent which does not benefit the holy school in which shackle is in.

Thanks for updating my info, will swap to a few hit items should I need to shackle something really badly in the near future

To add to Constie's post: I have never really been bothered shackling alot, sometimes used to at Moroes to help out lesser geared raids, but found at those moments that reshackling every 12-15 seconds seemed to give me most bang for the buck. Even with 0 spellhit on healing gear, I've never had it break before 10-12 seconds that I can think of, and by standing a small distance away I always had sufficient time to reshackle. My idea was that IF shit would hit the fan, I'd have some time to spam heals before I would really HAVE to waste some time on reshackling an add again.

Isiza · 08/04/08, 12:03 PM

Couple of quick questions:

M'uru died last night (woo!) and we're now on KJ.

By the pure logical choice in my head, i'm picking up spell warding. I had to pick up 5/5 crit for m'uru for inspiration on sent tanks. (it really really helped)

What should i drop in place of Spell Warding?

Edit: Fiancee made me PvP with him last night, so i'm disc. The link below is my normal holy build.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

• constantius · 08/04/08, 1:26 PM

You can drop Inspiration for KJ. There's only two people in the entire raid for whom it may matter, and you can just ask to not be assigned to their heals (the sinister reflection tanks).

For example, I heal the soul flay tank, and it's 100% pure magic damage. Inspiration is useless. If you're raid healing, same goes: it's all magic.

Note: I never respec'd for KJ, ever. But if you were to, that'd be the choice I'd make: drop down 0/5 Holy Spec, 0/3 Inspiration, and take 5/5 Spell Warding.

the fugly · 08/04/08, 9:21 PM

Originally Posted by Maive

I have a couple of questions about shackling on my holy priest. I'm in Kara right now and I've asked several people for focus macros, as well as tried the one on wowwiki. I can't get any of them to work. I think it's a problem with typing the macro correctly (spaces, maybe). Does anyone have an easy one?

Also, I read a little blurb on the wow forum that spell hit would increase your ability to keep a mob shackled. Does this sound right? And if so, what would be the minimum needed to improve the duration of my shackle? Thanks

i keep the shackle victims health bar up the entire time so i can see how much time the shackle has left and generaly refresh shackle 1/4 - 1/2 way through which is kinda paranoid i guess but it works for me. dont waste your time or healing stats on spellhit in my opinion.

Belenos · 08/05/08, 4:36 PM

Here are my Sure-Fire Shackle Tips™:

1) Use a focus shackle macro (see above)
2) Use a unit-frame that shows your focus target
3) Configure your focus frame to also show target debuffs, so you can see the shackle debuff, and its duration left (and if someone DOT'd it!)
4) Use this mod that plays a sound effect if your shackle breaks: CCBreakWarner
5) Keep your finger near the re-shackle button
6) Gradually move away from the target after shackling, so if it breaks, you have more time to re-cast

Using this method, you can have better response times, since you can watch the status of the shackle easily, and you get a warning when it breaks in case you're distracted. You do need to train yourself to babysit it a bit though.

Davidvilla · 08/07/08, 3:20 AM

Hey guys. This is my first time posting here on my new char. I used to post here a bit over a year ago though and you guys never let me down with your theorycrafting =D. I was just briefly reading over this entire thread. Unfortunately, 51 pages is quite a lot to read, so if some of my questions have already been answered, I apologize and appreciate any repeat answers.

First of all, I started playing a holy priest very recently (just less than 2 months ago) after having played a rogue since retail. Luckily, I was able to get into a decent raiding guild (in the top 3 on the server at least) since I knew a lot of people in it from when I played my rogue before I quit for a half a year.

Anyway, I think I've learned a lot about playing a holy priest by myself and just figuring stuff out as I go. However, I've always had a few questions, but just been too lazy to come to the elitist jerks forum and ask them. At the moment I'm having an extremely tough time deciding how to gem my gear. I've slowly started to get BT/Hyjal gear over the last few weeks, and here is my armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory

Btw, yea I know that the 11h/5s gems are better than 11h/2mp5 but the gem vendor on our server just popped (lol) and I haven't been able to get all of them replaced.

So yea, basically back to my question: Is there an agreed upon amount of spirit, +healing, and spell haste that a priest needs for maximum efficiency healing in a guild that's just getting into SWP? For all the Hyjal/BT fights I almost never run out of mana. A lot of how well my mana regens depends on whether I have an spriest in my group or not though. But the only fight that I really have to chug 1-2 mana pots without an spriest is Bloodboil. However, the other few holy priests in the guild have a lot more mp5 than me (yea, most of it is better gear, but a lot of them stack the +10 spirit gems).

The only other thing I wanna basically make sure I'm doing right is... well, just simply healing. I'll just give a rundown of what I do, and it really depends on the situation:

First off, I have 3 ranks of GH on my bar: 1, 4, and 7 which raid buffed heal for ~3k, 4k, 5.5k respectively. I use each one depending on how much hp a person is missing. I also spam one depending on what type of boss/mob the tank is on. For tank healing, I obviously spam a certain rank of GH and cancel until he needs the heal. I refresh renew all the time, and... one thing I'm not 100% on is using PoM. I tend to use this *almost* every time it's up, but I'm not sure if I should be. If my assignment is raid healing then I do either CoH (if it's group-wide dmg) or FH. I'm not sure about using FH, but for raid healing it's almost impossible to get a GH off with the shamans spamming banana heal. Also, do most priests downrank FH as well? 'Cause I've just had the max rank sitting on my bar for forever.

That's about all I can think of right now. Any answers (preferably from priests who are around SWP-level experience =D) will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

bobske · 08/08/08, 9:09 AM

I have a question about how the calculations for mana regen. are done. Because I don't get the same numbers.

Example the math for calculating Flask of Distilled Wisdom:

In 2.4 terms, given raid-buffed stats of 600 intellect, 715 spirit, assuming a 10-minute fight, and IDS, for a priest:

#1: [Flask of Distilled Wisdom] : 23 Mp5 I5SR, 56 Mp5 OO5SR

I then plug in on my TI-83:

5 * 0.0093271 * 715 * Square_root ( 600 ) = 816,767
5 * 0.0093271 * 715 * Square_root ( 665 ) = 859,871

859,871 - 816,767 = 43 Mp5 OO5SR and not 56??

What do I do wrong?

Incoherence · 08/08/08, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by bobske

I have a question about how the calculations for mana regen. are done. Because I don't get the same numbers.

Example the math for calculating Flask of Distilled Wisdom:

In 2.4 terms, given raid-buffed stats of 600 intellect, 715 spirit, assuming a 10-minute fight, and IDS, for a priest:

#1: [Flask of Distilled Wisdom] : 23 Mp5 I5SR, 56 Mp5 OO5SR

I then plug in on my TI-83:

5 * 0.0093271 * 715 * Square_root ( 600 ) = 816,767
5 * 0.0093271 * 715 * Square_root ( 665 ) = 859,871

859,871 - 816,767 = 43 Mp5 OO5SR and not 56??

What do I do wrong?

Two things.

1. Blessing of Kings applies to the +65 intellect, so you really want to use 671.5 in the second formula. That's another ~5 mp5.
2. Effective mp5 from base mana. If you add 71.5 int, you also add 1072.5 base mana. Assuming you actually get to zero by the end of the fight, you can consider that to be 1072.5 / 600 seconds = 1.7875 mana/sec, or 8.9375 mp5.

Sinndir · 08/08/08, 4:24 PM

Bobske are you opposed to using elixirs over the said flask?

[Bloodberry Elixir] and [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom] combine for greater gains than your flask of the titans.

After negating the intellect you are looking at 20 extra intellect from the flask vs. 45 spirit, 15 stamina. However, if it is cost effectiveness over regeneration you value then of course I would say go with the distilled wisdom flask.

bobske · 08/09/08, 6:32 AM

Thanks Incoherence

Sinndir: no i'm not using flask, I usually go for a Elixir of Healing Power and Draenic Wisdom. But yes for some progress encounters where you know it's going to be a wipefestival, ill stick to the flask for the money cost.

Fulnir · 08/09/08, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Davidvilla

First off, I have 3 ranks of GH on my bar: 1, 4, and 7 which raid buffed heal for ~3k, 4k, 5.5k respectively. I use each one depending on how much hp a person is missing. I also spam one depending on what type of boss/mob the tank is on. For tank healing, I obviously spam a certain rank of GH and cancel until he needs the heal. I refresh renew all the time, and... one thing I'm not 100% on is using PoM. I tend to use this *almost* every time it's up, but I'm not sure if I should be. If my assignment is raid healing then I do either CoH (if it's group-wide dmg) or FH. I'm not sure about using FH, but for raid healing it's almost impossible to get a GH off with the shamans spamming banana heal. Also, do most priests downrank FH as well? 'Cause I've just had the max rank sitting on my bar for forever.

This all sounds fine to me. I'm at 4/6 SW now and I do alot of the things you do aswell. Recently I've tried to force myself on spamming PoM each 10 sec, since it's increadibly efficient, being a fire and forget spell.
Kalecgos is a joke mana wise and shouldn't be a problem in any way. Brutallus is a bit more tricky, but doable. Fully buffed I got 430ish Mp5 on him (1000+ O5SR, but that isn't relevant for him unless you count Clearcasting + IF), Think my +heal is around 2350 aswell (can't remember the numbers tbh). Along with Alchemists stone I can just make the 6 mins timer while spamming GH rank 3 non-stop and rank 7 when tank got stomped.
I also got approx 150-175ish haste, but since you're just gearing up in BT your probably wont have that many haste items yet. This actually works to your advantage as you wont be burning your mana as fast.
Tbh I'm not sure Brutallus is fully doable without Alchemists stone, SP or Manatotem, you need to canclecast then and that's how tanks gets killed on that guy.

Regarding gems I go with the following setup: Blue slots: 11heal/5 spirit, Red slots: +22 heal, Yellow Slots: 10+ haste. I'm not that much of a numbercruncher, so I figured I needed a rule of thumb instead. It's my experience that throughput (HPS out) is more important than manaregen in SWP, so I value +heal and haste a bit more than spirit. This is just me though, and there are probably others who swear by other priorities.

My actionbar for healing looks sorta like this
1: GH 1
2: GH 3
3: FH Max
4: GH Max
5: CoH
Ctrl+3: Renew
Ctrl+2: Shield
R: PoM

I got some other stuff as well, but this is my main arsenal against incoming dmg and it's worked great for me up until now.
Lastly I'd really recommend using the mouseover macros Constantius has described on the first few posts. I started using the [target=mouseover] mechanism halfway through BT/MH content and it has by far been the greatest improvement to my performance in TBC (Along with Grid :P)
Hope you find some of my babbling useful

uh...ok · 08/11/08, 4:24 PM

I just looked through the Consumables section of the OP again and noticed:

Food: [Blackened Sporefish] or [Golden Fish Sticks] (fish sticks are MUCH more powerful in 2.4)

As of 2.4, it's much better to be using any sta/spi food instead of [Blackened Sporefish] (i.e. [Feltail Delight], [Talbuk Steak], [Buzzard Bites]), since 20 spi generally offers you better regen than 8mp5 (and some +heal to boot).

I'm sure ya'll have realized this and just haven't updated the section, though.

Niamb · 08/11/08, 10:34 PM

I was puzzled by your mana requirements for gear. You posted:

Gear Benchmarks
Q: What level of gear should I be at for <insert progression level here>?
A: To run Karazhan: 1400 +heal, 180 Mp5 *or* 400 spirit. Easily obtained through crafted pieces.
At the end of Karazhan: 1600 +heal, 275 Mp5
At the end of T4 content: 1700 +heal, 325 Mp5
At the end of T5 content: 2000 +heal, 380 Mp5.
At the end of T6 content (BT/HS): 2400 +heal, 430 Mp5 (all Mp5 numbers are I5SR)

I'm in the middle of T6 content and my unbuffed +healing is 2087 and my mana is 609 & 242 Mp5, which puts me at T5 plus for healing but Karazhan for mana. Since I'm having no mana issues I was wondering if this is some kind of buffed standard.

I went and looked at Nilhem to see what kind of stats their priests have. Inc has 2574 +heal, which puts him post T6, according to your chart. His mana, however is 595 resting & 268 Mp5, which puts him in Karazhan as well. This is a guy decked from head to toe in Sunwell or Absolution gear. I don't understand where these mana numbers are coming from.

Nice guide. I've found it quite useful. I'm just puzzled on how one could achieve such numbers in the mana area.

uh...ok · 08/11/08, 10:38 PM

I'm pretty sure those numbers are for when you're fully buffed.

Anecdotally, my guild and I dropped Illidan pre-patches when my unbuffed healing was ~2k and regen was at 190mp5 I5SR. I think raid buffs bumped it up to about 2100+ and 300mp5 I5SR.

Post-patch with the spirit changes, everyone's regen has been inflated substantially, so having ~400mp5 I5SR going into Sunwell is pretty standard.