Which earlier comments? I believe I said something about CoH during Kalecgos but that's about it.

- Why do you need to spread out for Morogrim's murlocs? What exactly does that do for you?
- Is CoH even useful at all for FLK? I guess I've never found a situation to use it in because the raidwide damage is extremely random and rarely do I see more than 3 people in the same group take a hit from a totem or Caribdis's AoE. Shamans are by far and away much more effective raid healers here, and you'd be better off having your priests on the tanks or the MT's healers.
- Leo - why the heck should the melee group need healing to begin with? If they're alert, they shouldn't get hit. And once they get hit, targeted Renews are so much more effective than CoH because of the DoT nature of Rend.
- Does anyone use CoH for Vashj at all? I don't see it possibly being useful given the nature of that fight. Maybe it's nice for topping the melee group off if Vashj CLs them?
- VR: yes, I agree.
- A'lar: the AoE damage in this fight is so trivial that you don't need CoH to raid heal at all. Yeah, it's useful I guess, but I really doubt it matters what you do in this situation or how you're specced.

Besides, I was talking mainly about Holy Reach in BT, given the context of the poster who asked about it.

Holy Reach is, simply put, one of those talents that sounds great on paper (especially if you do the omg44%math) but in practice has very little effect on the overall usefulness of CoH. I will not deny that it's a requirement for Felmyst, but aside from that I really don't see it being worth 2 points. The main problem really is the fact that CoH's base radius is so small that a 20% increase is still just 3 yards.

Though ultimately, I do believe that the effectiveness of Holy Reach depends on both the priest and his or her raid. Which is why my advice regarding Holy Reach has always been "Try it and see if it makes a difference." I've seen a fair number of people say it makes a huge difference for them, and I've seen equally as many say that it does nothing for them at all.

2 points of crit is still better than 2 points spent on a talent that does close to nothing for the boss encounters as I listed them. It's very much similar to the whole Silent Resolve vs Imp PWS debate people have. SR does something, yes, but it practically has no effect on you in a raid whatsoever.

If there were more fights that called for people to both:
a) stick together with their groups
b) stand sufficiently far apart rather than stack on top of each other

then Holy Reach would have tremendous value in all raids. But as it is, I just don't see it being effective whatsoever for BT-level raiding outside of trash.

I've been CoH since my guild stepped foot into SSC, and I've pretty much run both T5 and T6 instances countless times with and without Holy Reach. To be quite honest, there's really no measurable or noticeable difference between the two besides on trash, and occasionally on Naj'entus when we decide to bring 6 melee DPS to the fight.

Maybe it's because I don't raid heal very often. I only raid heal on fights where PoH/CoH really makes a difference (Naj, Bloodboil, RoS, Illidan P2), and most of the other times I'm on the tank or doing burst raid healing (Council) so 2% crit is far more valuable to me.

You were saying you don't consider CoH to be that great in BT, just a situationally useful accessory heal.

2 points of crit increase the value of CoH by 0.6%. If you hit a 5th target its 25% increase. If you hit a 4th target its a 33% increase. If you hit a 3rd target its a 50% increase. If I hit an extra target every 10 CoHs that improves CoH by 2-3%. Its a no brainer.

I find that the raid naturally spreads out to a moderate degree while maneuvring the mulrocs to position for AoE. For example mages using arcane explosion have to move close or the occasional mulroc breaks off and has to be CCd temporarily. Its also an issue with mixed groups contained ranged and melee characters.

I find CoH to be useful on FLK, when DPSing caribdis and FLK himself. There is a lot of raid damage during that phase. I find holy reach to be necessary as the raid is naturally spread out due to the fact that the raid has to constantly move. My impression is that without holy reach I would miss a great many targets.

To avoid the WW on leo, the melee have to move away 3-4 seconds before the WW starts and the timer is not 100% accurate. This results in a significant DPS loss. If they move away when the ww timer ends, they generally only get 1-2 hits, which are easily healable. CoH/PoM when they move away and renew/gheal afterwards is a very effective solution for this.

Its rare the forked lightning hits the entire melee group in P1 and P3, though it does so very often in P2. However forked lightning covers about as much of the platform as CoH with holy reach does. Proper raid positioning offers a number of opportunities for using CoH. More importantly CoH allows you to cover nearly 80% of the platform as you can target it on targets 40yards away and the healing will extend around an 18 radius from that target. I find that without holy reach its pointless to use CoH on anything except the melee.

I've never felt the need to spec into spell warding for any encounter. Most damage that isnt avoidable, is healed easily via binding heal (with exceptions, like encapsulate).

Although, binding heal is not a good idea for p1 M'uru if you are healing the sentinel tank, as its liable to get him killed. For p1 M'uru you are going to have to rely on your raid healer to keep you alive. Conversely, you shouldn't be taken very much burst in p1. The shadow pulse from sentinels is avoidable, the shadowbolt volley from void spawn is avoidable, the other adds shouldnt affect you (if they do, you have other problems). So your damage intake should consist entirely of that attack M'uru does that only hits ~ 900 or so damage, which isn't going to put your life at risk.

The sentinel tank will be taking 30-40% of his total damage as physical. So if him dying is a problem, probably won't fix th e problem (due to inconsistent procs), but it will certainly help more than 5/5 spell warding.


We've only made it to phase2 a handful of times (28% p2 wipe last night, our best attempt!), but the damage does ramp up ocnsiderably, but with PoH and BH, I still find myself one of the last to die.