Discipline and Holy WotLK Talent Preview and discussion. - Page 148

lilhoof · 10/14/08, 4:55 PM

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This is my current spec that my wife has come up with because she's not quite sure of what she needs. She is mainly a MT healer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I would help her; however, I'm a boomkin...so my insight isn't quite as helpful as it should be.

Vihermaali · 10/14/08, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by lilhoof

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This is my current spec that my wife has come up with because she's not quite sure of what she needs. She is mainly a MT healer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I would help her; however, I'm a boomkin...so my insight isn't quite as helpful as it should be.

Is the spec for pvp or pve purposes? Apparently pve, but at what level? Karazhan, heroics, normal 5-mans or SSC/TK/BT/Hyjal/Sunwell? This information is needed to determine the details of spec

Lambi · 10/14/08, 5:08 PM

So I've been reading this like mad back and forth now (I just got home from my vacation), does concentration aura stack with the other effects or not?

lilhoof · 10/14/08, 5:14 PM

I apologize for leaving that information out. She is lvl 70 and raiding BT. We are working in our guild on RoS currently.

Sinndir · 10/14/08, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lambi

So I've been reading this like mad back and forth now (I just got home from my vacation), does concentration aura stack with the other effects or not?

From my experience (and what thotbott says), Concentration Aura does not stack.

So either you take the 35% it gives you (50% if talented), or you put 2/2 in Healing Focus for 70% and call it a day.

I am sorry to bring this up again but it really concerns me how many of you are still valuing 3/3 Improved Renew over any of our other talents. Hell, I'd rather put 3 points into Spell Warding.

Renew has, is, and always will be one of three things:

A 5-man/Heroic dungeon spell
Tank buffering to try to smooth out the hard hits
Useless

If you are wanting to spec deep holy (14/4x) then you should almost always start with this.

The new surge of light is going to be great as well, and with a couple quick regems, a raid wide Boomkin aura (+5% crit), and more benefit from crit, why not take it.

I for one will be specing like this come today's patch.

Shylena · 10/14/08, 5:21 PM

Originally Posted by uh...ok

Except you're neglecting the part where in plenty of fights, it is in fact safer to use a downranked GH over Flash Heal because it does more healing.

And it's never a bad thing to be conservative with your mana, because you never know when you might actually need to spend that extra reserve of mana. Something might go wrong (i.e. a healer may die) and you'll need to use all that mana you've saved to keep the raid alive for that last 20%.

It's not about getting extra credit for ending the fight with a full mana bar. It's about always being ready for the worst.

Well the total removal of any mana savings for downranking was imo the worst thing about WoTLK for healing priests.
So as already noted, downranking and its utility, etc., is as of now moot. And mana conservation and the intelligent usage of it very much back in play.

Since mana was not a real problem since the regen buff in TBC I did not worry much about overhealing. Now, I will be paying close attention to it, although I do think CoH with its intelligent targeting and raidwide application will be responsible for much less overhealing than before. I doubt Discipline priests will have serious mana problems, so long as there is some skill and coordination present.

I tend to think more coordination among the raid healers will pay dividends in WoTLK, and we may well see healer rotations again, harkening back to the early days of MC.

kalbear · 10/14/08, 5:28 PM

Sinndir, with the change to how CoH works I think not taking holy reach 2/2 is a big mistake. Before it could be argued that CoH could reach everyone in a given party fairly easily. With it being a smart cast, having it go for as wide a range as possible is likely more desirous.

I think I'd sacrifice surge of light for better greater heals and better CoH. While SoL will undoubtedly improve mana efficiency, it's a bit unwieldy to use and does not necessarily solve a problem. In other words, it's somewhat wasted if you need to be casting greater heals or CoH regardless of a free FH.

lilhoof · 10/14/08, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by lilhoof

I apologize for leaving that information out. She is lvl 70 and raiding BT. We are working in our guild on RoS currently.

I probably should also specify that since BC she has been specc'd far enough into Disc tree for imp spirit then the rest in holy. She has never been a CoH healer and actually tends to hate speccing that way.

Xtian · 10/14/08, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by lilhoof

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This is my current spec that my wife has come up with because she's not quite sure of what she needs. She is mainly a MT healer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I would help her; however, I'm a boomkin...so my insight isn't quite as helpful as it should be.

Inner Fire only gets the spellpower buff at level 71, so for now, Imp. Inner Fire only helps your armor and charges. Which for a main tank raid healer is useless.

I think Reflective Shield will be a judgment call. My sense is that since a Disc healer is starved for talent points, there are more healing-oriented talents to be chosen, and 3/3 Ref. Shield could be saved for later levels or abandoned. On the other hand, those three points pack a decent DPS/point ratio. Personal choice.

Picking up things like Pain Suppression or Power Infusion are things you (or rather your wife) will want to do at some point, if only to get a feel for how they work and when they're useful. Power Infusion on a Mage is money if you can spare the GCD. If you have a Shadow Priest in your tank group, Power Infusion counts as sorta kinda extra healing, given the Vampiric Embrace buff.

As a tank healer, I think getting as much Divine Fury as possible can only be a good thing, since in between Penances you'll be using Gheals. To get there, however, I don't know whether 2/5 Holy Spec + 3/3 Imp. Renew is better than 5/5 Holy Spec.

I'm also going to be a main tank Disc healer (albeit in much lower content). I'm looking at this build. However, I'm taking IDS, which your wife may not need to provide, in which case those points can go elsewhere.

constantius · 10/14/08, 5:41 PM

There's no point in taking IDS for 25-man raiding, so a spec like:
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would do just fine for tank healing. You could argue for Surge of Light, but if she's primarily tank healing, using a Flash Heal (even if instant cast) isn't going to be that helpful. Serendipity and 3/3 IHC are almost required to be a pure tank healer. It'd play very close to what she's used to, except without Divine Spirit, so a little less regen. There's no way to get Divine Spirit and get the *required* holy talents anymore, unfortunately. Even 1 DS = no Serendipity.

[e] For those suggesting Disc specs, remember that Penance/PW:S/Flash is a foreign style to someone used to a 23/38/0 spec for the last few months. Tank healing as mid-to-deep holy is all about GHeal spam, with Renew and PoM. To make it comfortable for her, hand her the next-best-thing: deep holy without IDS, no CoH.

Sinndir · 10/14/08, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by kalbear

Sinndir, with the change to how CoH works I think not taking holy reach 2/2 is a big mistake. Before it could be argued that CoH could reach everyone in a given party fairly easily. With it being a smart cast, having it go for as wide a range as possible is likely more desirous.

I think I'd sacrifice surge of light for better greater heals and better CoH. While SoL will undoubtedly improve mana efficiency, it's a bit unwieldy to use and does not necessarily solve a problem. In other words, it's somewhat wasted if you need to be casting greater heals or CoH regardless of a free FH.

The loss in 10% is not that hard, not to mention for most of the fights I can think of in sunwell (at least the way we do them), it will 'easily' hit 5 people with 0/2 holy reach.

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, Twins, M'uru, and KJ... our strat calls for there to almost always be 4 others near the person.

-Edit-

Oops, I forgot about the current Inner Fire not giving spellpower, so a quick change results in this:

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Kortar · 10/14/08, 5:54 PM

I tend to think more coordination among the raid healers will pay dividends in WoTLK, and we may well see healer rotations again, harkening back to the early days of MC.

Keep in mind that the reason you 'rotated' was to take advantage of Spirit Regeneration. But in WotLK, there really isn't any healer who is going to have top notch Spirit regeneration most likely. Paladins/Shaman don't use spirit regen. Druids have near-100% FSR due to HoT rotations, so tend not to emphasize it. And as has been discussed at length on this thread, even Priests get better mana return out of Intellect than Spirit in WotLK.

Ranc · 10/14/08, 6:38 PM

i know we've been there done it and dismissed it many times, but the brand new patch notes (MMO) once again say CoH has indeed now got a 6 sec CD.

Hopefully it is still the stupid unupdated oversight we always figured.....

Caligula · 10/14/08, 6:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ranc

i know we've been there done it and dismissed it many times, but the brand new patch notes (MMO) once again say CoH has indeed now got a 6 sec CD.

Hopefully it is just oversight...... though if not least I can reach a top tier talent in Disc

The cooldown was removed in Beta even before the patch hit PTR if I remember correctly. In any case, the talent shows no CD in game right now.

Ranc · 10/14/08, 6:52 PM

indeed just mentioned it as I was suprised they still hadnt weeded out the 'error' from tonights patch notes.

I do remember when they removed CD there was a kinda you've got it back for now and we will see sort of comment, which kinda always stuck in my mind - since then I've always figured we will likely get some sort of CD eventually just to even up the AoE healing a bit especially by 80 end game mana/regen levels.