Not to belabor a point that is irrelevant to the conversation, but I didn't get upset here. I didn't even participate in the conversation on this forum, I participated in the one on the beta forums. The reason any part of the conversation occurred in this thread was because not every priest is in the beta forums so part of the beta threads carry over across both forums. It just boggles my mind that people actually berate others for discussing changes when that is entirely the point of testing. Since I actually do submit bug reports and have since the first day of alpha, I find it an important part of testing to encourage conversation rather then stifle it as if assuming changes will get fixed is somehow more appropriate. Testers shouldn't "assume" anything.

The priest glyphs are up on mmo-champion now:

Healing:
Glyph of Lightwell 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the amount healed by your Lightwell by 1 to 6%
Glyph of Renew 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the duration of your Renew by 3 sec.
Glyph of Circle of Healing 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Your Circle of Healing spell heals 1 additional target.
Glyph of Dispel Magic 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Your Dispel Magic also heals your target for 3% of maximum health if it removes a damaging effect.
Glyph of Flash Heal 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Your Flash Heal has a 50% chance to reduce the cast time of your next Greater Heal by 0.3 sec
Glyph of Prayer of Healing 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the radius of your Prayer of Healing spell by 5 yards.
Glyph of Holy Nova 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Your Holy Nova spell heals for an additional 30% but deals 1 to 0% less damage.
Glyph of Spirit of Redemption 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Critical heals cast while Spirit of Redemption is active increase the remaining duration of Spirit of Redemption by 4 sec.

Shadow:
Glyph of Mind Flay 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the range of your Mind Flay spell by 5 yards but it no longer reduces the target's movement speed.
Glyph of Shadow Word: Death 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Targets below 35% health take an additional 5% damage from your Shadow Word: Death spell.
Glyph of Shadow Word: Pain 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the duration of your Shadow Word: Pain by 3 sec.

Misc:
Glyph of Fade 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Attacks made against you while Fade is active have a 10% chance to refresh its duration back to full.
Glyph of Psychic Scream 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the duration of your Psychic Scream by 3 sec.
Glyph of Fear Ward 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Reduces cooldown and duration of Fear Ward by 30 sec.
Glyph of Inner Fire 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Your Inner Fire has 10 additional charges.
Glyph of Mind Control 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the duration of your Mind Control spell by 12 sec.
Glyph of Mind Soothe 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the duration of your Mind Soothe spell by 5 sec.
Glyph of Shackle Undead 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Extends the range on Shackle Undead by 5 yards.
Glyph of Mass Dispel 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Reduces the mana cost of Mass Dispel by -20%.
Glyph of Smite 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Increases the chance you'll resist spell interruption when casting your Smite spell by 50%.


Not quite as many play-altering ones as the druid set. The CoH one seems nice, PoH is nice too if it ends up with smart targeting, Lightwell and Renew aren't that big a change but probably not greater glyphs, Spirit of Redemption could be fun if you somehow ended up with lots of crit rating.
Some of them seem to have very little effect, what exactly does Fade resetting it's duration do when hit? Absolutely nothing seeing as someone hitting you means that it hasn't succeeded in reducing your aggro. More healing on Holy Nova won't change it being terribly overpriced in mana, 10 more charges on Inner Fire won't make it any less of a pain to keep up in PvE, and the duration on Psychic Scream running out is rarely the reason for it stopping.

This one is interesting, but are they really going to give us an endless Spirit of Redemption? CoH on a raid will easily give at least one crit in 4 seconds...

The other glyphs are terrible for the most part though. Really disappointing compared to the shaman ones. 10 extra yards on Flame Shock so that ele shammies can stand at higher range, but shadow priests only get 5 yards for their Mind Flay and give up the snare as well.


5y extra range on shackle, 6% more healing on lightwell, chance to lenghten the duration of fade when hit, increased duration of mind control and mind soothe... no way these were designed by someone who actually plays a priest.

The holy nova one should make holy nova at least theoretically useful for healing, but it's just wrong that we need a glyph for the spell to start functioning properly. Even then I doubt Holy Nova is going to be used for healing unless the priest does not have CoH and is doing 5 man content.


Constantius, if you are reading this, please post some feedback on the beta forums about these glyphs when you can.

Improved Shadowform provides 70% interrupt protection when fade is up.

If the 5 yard range applies before Shadow Reach, that puts Mind Flay at 30 yards exactly.

Edit: I'm also disappointed about the lack of gameplay changing glyphs, particularly considering that the pally ones are so great.

Some glyphs are ok, but nowhere near what paladins get. CoH is very nice, with smart targetting especially. There are few other very nice glyphs too, but overall, like previous posters said, lack of gameplay changing glyphs are quite disappointing. It would be ok if glyphs were supposed to be only cosmetic and minor changes, but something like kings increasing AP has a huge effect on all the min/maxing raiders.

I posted. Largely, I just want the Inscription guy to sit down and think a little harder, and give us a little more choice. The resto druid glyphs were amazing compared to the holy priest ones, and our shadow options are downright anemic.

I'm not taking the Renew glyph over the Flash Heal glyph, assuming they're the same level (major/minor/whatever). 50% chance is significant, and getting 0.3 seconds off an already hasted GH (say, at 2.0, like it is atm for me) is fairly huge. It works out really really well in practice for paladins, so I see no reason it wouldn't work well for priests.

I'm ok-ish about the holy ones. There's no OMG glyphs in there (like, say, the Lifebloom one for druids), but they definitely put some thought in. I'm worried about shadow.

[e] BTW, holy crap 489MB patch ... so slooowwww

It does that all the time. The only thing the duration on Fade does is track when the threat it removed is coming back.

And I just saw the paladin ones, what an amazing difference in gameplay, they're not just some percentages here and there but actual new functionality for old spells.

It's hard to judge new glyphs and compare to other classes glyphs without knowing which socket they will inhabit, Greater/Lesser/Minor. I'm not seeing the creativity I was hoping for though, doesn't seem like its from the same person(s) that did the Druid glyphs or are not familiar with the Priest class.

But judging from this:
They are at least not very familiar with the Priest changes in WotLK.
And simple things like the additional 3sec to renew are just lackluster, we've seen this since Tier2.5 and again in Tier5, sure it's occasionally nice (even great when doing Bloodboil or RoS without CoH) but for example reducing the tick of Renew from 3 to 2sec (making it's total duration 16sec and 8 ticks) would be a lot more interesting and it's effective HPS would improve without boosting the raw healing output much, right now Renew is really an inferior Rejuvenation on both HPM and HPS scaling, adding another 3sec tick to it doesn't change much to that fact. Casting 2 less Renews per 3 minutes to keep it up constantly on a tank is not a fresh enough idea to get me excited. A missed opportunity if anything since none of the new Talents affect Renew at all. Something similar can be said about most of the Glyphs with the exception to the Spirit of Redemption glyph but of course that will get a limitation, long duration SoR would motivate priest suicides, Maexxna style.

PS; On the other hand Spirit of Redemption could be seen as very underpowered compared to Reincarnation, Rebirth, Soulstone or even Divine Intervention, and this is the closest equivalent we have to such baseline abilities. It's rather strange by itself that Priests are the only healers that don't have a real death defying ability like that. I suppose it originates from the concept of a Holy Priest as pure healer not relying on utility to provide good value for a raid spot, similar to Rogues or Mages but we all know that didn't exactly always work out like it should have. (Talking PvE obviously)

Glyph of Fade 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Attacks made against you while Fade is active have a 10% chance to refresh its duration back to full.

The only thing that occurs to me on this is that it may synergize with Imp Shadowform- ie, if you get hit while Fade is still up, there's a 10% for you to remove all impairing affects.


Glyph of Fear Ward 01 (Priest) (Class: Priest) - Reduces cooldown and duration of Fear Ward by 30 sec.

Wondering if that means "and increases duration," or if it's simply to allow you to Fear Ward more often in PvP (which seems silly, but so do some of the other glyphs).

Anyone noice this in the Holy Skills page?

Wrath of the Lich King - Priest - Holy Skills

Mass Resurrection
70 Brings party members within 50 yards back to life with 500 health and 1150 mana. Cannot be cast when in combat.
76% of base mana, 20 yd range, 1.5 sec cast

little odd it says 50 and 20 yards, might be a bug i guess

edit: wotlk.wowhead.com doesn't agree this as a priest skill so i guess mmo champion is just buggy

The point is moot; that spell has been on Wowhead since 2006. It was an NPC-only spell then, and I can't imagine that that is suddenly being changed. Clicking on the link will show you all the comments from two years ago when people thought it was being implemented. Also, apparently it was considered a Paladin spell then.

On the other hand, from the real patch notes:

Spell casting and spell channeling pushback has been changed to the following:


* When casting a spell:

o The first and second hit will add .5 secs each to the cast time.
o All hits after the second will have no effect.

* When channeling a spell:

o The first and second hit reduces current duration by 25% of total duration each.
o All hits after the second will have no effect.


Can't be mad about that.

It's about bloody time spell pushback was fixed. It was one of the fundamentally flawed concepts that somehow stuck around from Vanilla until now. I'm ecstatic they not only recognized this, but are implementing something.

I'm actually quite curious to see if this is truly "max of 1.0 on any spell". The number of times I've tried to cast a Flash Heal against a Bestial Wrathed pet (that also had Bloodlust, for example) and watched a 1.5 second cast take at least 4.0 ... never again!

It also means interrupts are going to be even more skill based in PvP, which I highly approve of. Yes, any cast spell can be interrupted ... but if you can fake someone, you can be almost guaranteed to get a spell off on the next cast. The worst they can do is slow you by a second, or go for a stun.

In conclusion ... cool. Very very cool.

Now if we could just move improved Psychic Scream to Tier2 shadow ... ... ...

General notes from my instance run today.

It appears that serendipity is fixed, as promised. Also, what I didn't really expect- If you get a clearcast proc, and serendipity activates due to overheal on the clearcasted heal- you pay no cost for the spell and still get the mana return. =)

Does the new pusback mechanic work in conjunction with the 70% pushback resistance we have?

Several of the glyphs seem to be addressing long standing priest problems rather than giving us new ways to use abilities.

These glyphs would be the ones I was talking about. Regarding that Spirit of Redemption glyph, I think someone mentioned (Koraa maybe? or was it someone in this thread?) that they wanted Spirit of Redemption to be more worthwhile as it currently is very underwhelming compared to Reincarnation, Rebirth, and Divine Intervention. I could be mistaken though, maybe it was just someone on the WoW forums.

The Mind Flay, Inner Fire and Smite glyphs all seem like they tried to fix current problems. I guess that doesn't really bother me that much, except the problems didn't really get fixed (other than the Smite resistance). Now, that alone isn't a huge problem but more of a disappointment. But combined with several other worthless glyphs it makes me think these weren't thoroughly thought through (say that 3 times fast).

The good news is that there are way too many "ughs" with the Priest glyphs for them to remain ignored for long. I would be very surprised if there were no changes.

Actually the spirit of redemption glyph might be totally insane together with the CoH glyph... Spam CoH as spirit and you have 6 chances to crit every ~1.25 seconds (haste), you'll basically be a permanent angel with unlimited mana and being invulnerable.

I'm a bit worried about disc priest raid viability.
AFAIK Blizzard stated that disc priest will be the 2nd best tank healer only beaten by paladins.
Paladins also get their new raid heal spell while disc priests will lack CoH.
BoK, especially with the new glyph, easily beats imp DS.

Now i wonder will the situation in raids be a "we can bring a disc priest or a paladin" or will it be "we will bring a disc priest because we don't have enough paladins"?
Paladins seem to have better survivability, better single target healing, better raid healing and better buffs.

Is the 6% increased healing and reduced damage already factored into the tank healing ability or is that the incentive that shall get disc on par with palas?
Right now i think disc priests need a bit more to be competetive for tank healer spots.

Well with the changes to pally blessings you only "need" 2 pallies in the raid now, one for kings and one for might/wisdom. These could well be a tank and a retadin given ret's crazy dps on beta. Now if you exclude the blessings which is the more desirable single target healer? Personally I would shade to the pally but it's close, mainly because I remain unconvinced that Grace is that wonderful compared to raw power. However it's probably close enough that player skill or soft social factors would provide the final choice as to which to bring. Overall however Disc does seem to need a little something more to give it more juice.

Being a healer is not only about HPS and HPM... if they manage to boost penance a little it will be a completely crazy good tank healing spell. Being able to actually reactive heal instead of stop casting, penance will together with lifebloom be that anti burst spell I've always wanted atleast. If the tank is at full hp you can wait until he gets hit until you start channeling penance to remove the edge of the hard hit and give time for a holy light.

I would however really welcome if they removed the channel on penance and maybe even the gcd on it too, so you could penance and load a big GHeal straight after. I think that would solve alot of the disc priest issues.

As far as I understand, Penance is like Arcane Missiles that heals when cast on a friendly target. So it has travel time which makes it unreliable for reactive healing.

Even if it was instant, I would be sceptical. Only the first tick and maybe the second would be a true reactive heal. Those two don't heal nearly as much as say Swiftmend if i'm not mistaken. Since disc is advertised as tank healing spec I would at the very least expect Penance to be comparable to the other reactive healing spells. so far it looks like it will underperform compared to them. PW:S will be the Disc reactive ability, not Penance unless things change.

This isn't actually true with the new glyph that modifies BoM to give Spellpower. I'm going to want BoM, BoK, and BoW. 3 paladins in mah raid, go.

And this is true for almost everyone. For example, elemental shamans are going to want all 3 : they get double or triple benefit from BoM now in this weird hybridization that takes AP and gives Spellpower. Same goes for BoK (improved) for them: increasing their AP will give scaling benefit to their Spellpower, so the new 3% gain is sexy-time.

And with all the buffs to holy paladins, I really don't see a raid avoiding bringing one of them. Paladins may be one of the few classes you can easily justify 3 raid slots for.

I'm seeing 3 priests/druids/paladins/shamans being almost required (priests because of our dual role: 1 holy, 2 shadow, with a 2nd holy as an option depending on healer depth). That leaves 13 slots to divide among 6 classes, and warriors/rogues/deathknights/hunters/mages/warlocks should have very little difficulty paring themselves down to 2 each. The final slot will be (likely) a healer, putting one of paladins/druids/shamans/priests at +1.

Blessings are still ridiculous, even if Judgements are being pared down to 2 only. And protection paladins are crazy good in Wrath so far -- their talents got some absolute loving.

Anyway ... conclusion: you're in high certainty bringing 3 paladins to a raid, so plan on getting BoM/BoW/BoK raid-wide, with each paladin spec'ing and Glyph'ing for maximum benefit.