Renew is alright, but I'd really prefer to see a glyph that adds some synergy rather than something that just extends the effect.

I think the new change to divine aegis pretty much solidifies the viability of disc as a tank healer.

--> PWS now has 57.5% total scaling. 30% base and 20% from talent and a 15% multiplier. Talented base value is 2564, i.e. 15% better than flash heal and 60% of gheal base. Casting PWS within a fh/gh sequence results in a non trivial increase in HPS. If say you are maintaining 2000 effective HPS with gheal/fheal then adding 1 PWS (~3500 @1000 spell power) increases HPS to ~2100, and gives you back 11 mana per cast.

--> PI is equivalent to a 20% haste/20% mana reduction for 20 seconds every 96 seconds, so the overal haste mana reduction boost is 20*20/96 is 4%, but you can combine with on use abilities to get slightly better returns. Unfortunately PI burns a GCD, which is a really serious issue with a spell of this nature, but hopefully that will be changed in wotlk. So the disc priest can achieve very high throughput for a short period of time if required with a relatively short timer.

--> Assuming divine aegis only works on effective healing then at 15-20% overheal it adds ~0.4*crit*effective HPS as damage absorption on the target and returns 0.25*0.4*crit*HPS mana per second. At 25% crit this is equivalent to @10% of your effective HPS as damage absorption (thus better return than spiritual healing) and 2.5% of your effective HPS as mana thus doubling the benefit of rapture.

Disc is now probably just as good as holy when damage is focused on a few targets.

In an encounter like the illidari council, a disc priest with the wotlk talents is certainly as good as a holy priest at raid healing.

We simply don't have enough information on healing scaling at the moment to make this sort of assertion. PWS, in BC, is scaled on a fixed value unrelated to casting time. Greater Heal and Flash Heal have coefficients scaled to casting time. Given the figures we have so far, it is likely that the coefficient (incorporating only BC-era talents for simplicity) of a Flash Heal will be in the range of 120% for a Holy Priest and the 90% range for a Discipline Priest.

In order to get that 25% crit, you just sacrificed almost 500 spellpower. Assuming you have a 100% final coefficient on Flash Heal, this ends up being a loss of about 300 hps - a greater value than the 10% you gained from adding all that critical onto a 2000 hps heal.

Also, keep in mind that the single spell boosted by Discipline - PW:S - doesn't benefit from spell critical at all. Given this, it seems that the only reason a Discipline Priest would ever equip spell critical gear is if they're having mana issues - and, even then, it's a questionable tactic since it lowers the overall efficiency of their healing so much.

You have to presume some pretty unusual circumstances for this to be the cast. You need a situation where you never have to cast a heal more than once every 4s, where you don't need to repeat heals on the same target, and where you never benefit from multi-target heals. Basically, you need to assume a situation where a Resto Druid completely destroys either a Holy or a Discipline Priest at raid healing.

Power Infusion doesn't blow a global cooldown. At least not on beta as of right now.

(edit) I'll test again as soon as the server stops being all laggy.
(edit2) No GCD on PI.

It doesn't activate a gcd on live as well, nothing has changed.

It works on all healing. You can crit yourself while at full health and get a bubble that absorbs exactly what you would expect.

Does the Penance range (30y enemy, 40y friend) work correctly? If so, did Dispel Magic get changed in that regard too? It would make perfect sense...

I haven't tested it personally by standing at the different ranges but that is what the tooltip says. Dispel Magic was also changed to be 30/40, yes.

Coming into the discussion late, just got my key a few days ago.

Let me know if I'm out to lunch on this. Seems to me that the mechanic of absorbing, suppressing, or transferring percentages of damage is really being taken to the extreme lately, yet they've overlooked a basic gimmicky mechanic that could fit well in Disc and give Priests another reason to spec that way in raid situations: Spell Reflection.

Am I wrong in assuming that the only class capable of flipping Deaden back on to Essence of Desire is a Warrior? Why not contribute to the "parity" Blizz keeps talking about and give priests the ability to spec or glyph their PW:S (or even just come up with a new ability) to reflect the next spell cast back onto the target? Seems to me it could be used in a wide-array of pvp and pve situations.

True, not all bosses are going to require that handling, but it is nice to have options, especially since they are trying to push having all of the tankable classes as viable MTs. I'm surprised that this far into beta there is still no other spell reflection mechanic...unless I blatantly overlooked something?

This would be a good new talent for the Disc tree. PW:s already has enough roles (damage absob + spell pushback immunity), adding another one on top of it would be too hard to balance.

A "Blade Ward" which deflects the next special attack with weapons could be a slightly different approach to the mechanic.

I gave this reflection mechanic a lot of thought on the way home from work this afternoon. It really ought to be spread around a bit more...I'm not advocating that every class get it, but with the wotlk "parity" situation being addressed, I think one or two more classes should get some kind of spell reflection control.

I think it is perfectly fair to say something like:

1. Warriors get the ability natively, simply from leveling.
2. Priests get the ability to reflect via a (new) Disc talent.
3. Paladins get the ability to reflect via a Glyph on Hand on Sacrifice.

That's three classes, in which many 10-man groups will have at least *one* of, and when push comes to shove, if you feel like you absolutely REQUIRE a spell reflect mechanic for the wotlk boss you're working on, you have multiple options here.

Sorry for the (slight) derail, but make no mistake: Disc Priests ought to get this mechanic.

When I look at disc vs. holy, I think emergency survivability vs. healing endurance. Disc is (and has been) littered with "gimmicky" abilities for some time, but they have found a place in PvP. Things like Power Infusion, Pain Suppression, Focused Will and Reflective Shield have all screamed longevity / team synergy in arenas, and it simply hasn't been worth it for a Priest to dump Holy in favor of Disc for raiding thus far, simply due to the fact that they don't have the endurance or don't bring the equivalent worth that a Holy priest does...

...so why not continue down the path of gimmicks until they have enough in their repertoire that you find yourself doubting the reasoning to leave them behind? A target-able spell reflect would definitely fit right into place in this line of reasoning, and might even begin to push the Disc priest into a new kind of field: one that demonstrates prowess in emergency situations. I would like to see valid reasoning for pain suppressing parts of the raid (or even the main tank, threat reduction aside), power infusing the paladin tank (or hell, other healers), and spell reflecting big casts off of the druid tank back on to the boss.

Sure, at the end of the day, the Holy Priest will probably out-heal the Disc Priest, and why should she? Holy Priests should set the standard for excellence in healing...but there is no rule in the book that says Disc priests can't fill the need for a new type of emergency healing role, and do well at it.

I don't like the current setup of Disc though and what you call gimmicky spells. Hopefully I can explain why well enough

Gimmicky spells, even if reasonably powerful, are not substitute for a tree that can stand on its own feet. The tree needs a signature spell or two that define its playstyle, not abilities that are cast every few minutes once with the playstyle being unchanged otherwise.

The class, at a base level, has severe survivability problems. Instead of adressing that they put an excessive amount of survivability talents into Disc because they didn't know what else to do with the tree. A similar thing happened with Meditation and Divine Spirit, and Power Infusion is just a copy of a mage ability that was later modified a bit.

That said, Pain Suppression is closest to a signature ability and should stay. I would like to see it a bit more useful in PvE , but one long cooldown ability is enough per tree in my opinion.

R.I.P. downranking, was nice to know you. All hail Blizzard! <o/

WoW Forums -> Goodbye Downrankers!

I dare say healing priests are the least affected class/spec. Our mana regeneration is not based on downranking anyway, majority of regen comes from cheating the 5-second rule, for which using as high heals as possible is actually good. In almost every encounter in game it's possible to use max ranks only and finish cleanly. Only the most harshest tank-killing fights "require" constant non-stop spam trough whole fight. There using only max rank could cause a problem. Brutallus is only example of this that comes into my mind.

Looks like tank healing will be a real pain for holy. Even if this may not be the best way to make disc viable, it certainly looks so much safer now than idea of cancel-casting heals to save mana. Can't confirm this without actually seeing actual raids, though.

I'm a little bit saddened about the downranking changes. From an efficiency perspective it's nice to drop the appropriate size heal for the damage taken rather than incur huge overheal (not that you can't still downrank, just that you receive zero benefit from doing so).

In terms of GH spam sustainability on fights where the tank may get gibbed (e.g. Brutallus), Serendipity will offset the loss of downranking to some degree.

In the end I guess I'm just not a fan of changes that reduce the number of ways I can control mana expenditure and healing output, however well-intentioned or necessary they may be.

Yeah, it's one less tool to play with. But on other hand, downranking promoted mindless spam -kind of behaviour. Why bother even trying to time heals when you can just take a lesser rank and spam forever?

Well the downranking changes will greatly increase the power of holy priests. 16% clearcasting leading to 3 x 1 sec heals and 60% mana refund on overhealing coupled with massive spirit and the most diverse arsenal of healing spells in the game will put holy priests head and shoulders above other healers. Disc priests and druids are going to be ok but shammies and especially pallies are going to suffer greatly without changes. Even lightwell becomes a lot more attractive under this regime though getting idiots to use it correctly will still be an uphill battle. Over all they will need to reduce boss spike as healers will go oom very fast keeping tanks at 90-100% as they do now and brut would probably be impossible under this system.

Narvik has kindly posted some mana costs on the beta forums which show the mana costs for a L75 priest

I have to agree with the buffs costs being a bit nuts, hopefully they will look at this again PoH is also more expensive than I would have hoped but 20% off from healing prayers will help a lot here.

*edit* added link to Narvik's post

edited: nm, too late

Currently (at least of 2 patches ago) Power Word: Shield scales at 80% of your spellpower, which is the same scaling as flash heal currently in beta. PW:S now scales the same as a normal instant cast spell.

Borrowed Time currently adds 16% rather than 20% (because its 20% of 80%) so with improved PW:S, then PW:S scales at 110% fully talented. Improved PW:S adds much more to PW:S than borrowed time and currently borrowed time is not worth taking (Spiritual Guidance is a better choice, and ignore penance)

On the topic of downranking: timing heals is one thing. However, this change goes way way beyond timing heals. Basically, it's saying "use a heal that hits for 10-12k or use a faster, low efficiency heal that hits for 5-6k" (GH & FH). That's it. We'll have Renew which we'll probably use on anyone who's -4k or less.

Effectively, downranking gave me multiple heals to play with. GH:1,3,5,7, and FH:7,9 along with PoM, Renew:8,10,12 and the AE heals. Now, I have 2 major heals: GH:9 and FH:11, plus Renew and PoM.

There's going to be a huge amount of input from people who don't play healers in raids thinking this is a great idea. But essentially, it's a huge skill nerf: there's no skill involved in bombing big heals. There is skill involved in actively changing spell ranks for different amounts of healing. I was really looking forward to interacting with IHC and different ranks of GH. Keep a 3-4k heal in the pipe, proc IHC, castcancel a max-rank, then cast-cancel another max-rank getting some more OO5SR regen time before going back to the 3-4k heals. Instead, I'm just going to cast-cancel GH:9 all day long; there will never be a point in casting anything else.

And I can put a drinky-bird on my keyboard to spam GH:9. It's not interesting in the least. Serendipity rewards overhealing and spamming behaviour ... /sigh

[e] One positive note: I just freed up 6 keybinds. Weewoo. And I'll test the changes this weekend after I hit 74 or 75 -- I haven't run any dungeons yet, so it'll be fresh and I can try the whole "bomb" idea out and see just how bad it is. It's going to be hugely different, at least we know that much.

[e2] A list of the spells that we will consider using at level 80:
Will use
Circle of Healing (Rank 7): 21% of base mana
Renew (Rank 14): 17% of base mana
Flash Heal (Rank 11): 18% of base mana
Prayer of Mending (Rank 3): 15% of base mana
Binding Heal (Rank 3): 27% of base mana
Greater Heal (Rank 9): 32% of base mana
Prayer of Healing (Rank 7): 48% of base mana

Won't use
Holy Nova (Rank 9): 33% of base mana

Base mana at level 80 should be around 2800 or so. I'll try to get some firmer numbers on this.

I'm still not happy with "Borrowed Time". If it would remove the global cooldown it could be great and an interesting mechanic, making it a real reactive life-saver, certainly for PvP. The other thought I had is that it should reduce the duration of "Weakened Soul". Maybe to a more user-friendly 5 to 10 seconds, to bring it in line with other (talented) spells that have cooldowns.

I'm also still unhappy about Guardian Spirit. The 40% bonus healing seems OK. The duration is rather short and the cooldown is rather long, but perhaps that's not the problem. The sacrifice just seems pointless. If the target dies they get 10% of their max HP? To do what with? Die to the next attack? It would be great of the 40% healing bonus would persist for a short while after the sacrifice. That way you might be able to land a heal between the sacrifice and the next attack and actually save the target. It's either that or it needs more health given back. I'd be curious to see how many deaths the sacrifice portion of the spell will actually prevent. I'm guessing it won't be many.

About the downranking nerf, I don't think it's really a skill nerf. Other healers now may have to stop mindless spamming. Besides there are (or at least used to be) addons around that downrank your spells automatically for how much health your target is missing. That hardly required any skill to use.

Not happy at all with the downranking changes. I'm not overly worried about balance implications for us, since we have enough tools, and if Blizzard designs fights which prove unhealable with these changes, they'll be forced to adjust pretty fast. That said, it's a definite nerf in the fun department. Just like most others here I guess, one of the things I enjoy about healing is the wide range of spells and ranks I use to adapt to incoming damage and such. Interaction with clearcasting to cast-cancel a max rank GHeal as mentioned, using smaller heals on smaller deficits, etc. etc. It's what makes Priest healing quite varried and fun to me. This change seems to cut my spell arsenal roughly in half, and takes a big part of the decision making process out of my hands. Being forced to drop significant overheals on people because of this (And while I have to do the maths I got a suspicion that a lot of times when there is no huge rush, max rank GHeal with Serendipity might even be better than Flash) will feel frustrating and counterintuitive, and I fear healing overall feels less varried. It feels like we are being dumbed down to the level of DPS (With all due respect to those guys, but chaincasting bolt spells is exactly why I have little interest in playing Mages/Locks in raids), and while not trying to sound elitist, a lot of the skill is being taken out of healing.