The sad thing is that we were told that holy should be the the aoe-healing-tree - if not alltogether than at least for the priest.
Most new talents and spells(!) dont do anything for it since most focuse on GH, FH and BH. The only new talent that focusses on aoe-healing is worse than another higher up in the tree. The other is a blow up of a former PVP-talent that may or may not help while aoe-healing. I think that is a little bit odd for an aoe-healing-tree, especialy if you cannot hold up the one(!) aoe-healing-spell that you get in that tree and have to switch to single-target heals instead.
The sad thing is that we were told that holy should be the the aoe-healing-tree - if not alltogether than at least for the priest.
Most new talents and spells(!) dont do anything for it since most focuse on GH, FH and BH. The only new talent that focusses on aoe-healing is worse than another higher up in the tree. The other is a blow up of a former PVP-talent that may or may not help while aoe-healing. I think that is a little bit odd for an aoe-healing-tree, especialy if you cannot hold up the one(!) aoe-healing-spell that you get in that tree and have to switch to single-target heals instead.
It seems to me that this point does not hold completely. Whether you heal your raid with CoH/PoH or with Single target spells is basically irrelevant, if you have the means to heal the raid at all. It´s just a question which one to pick. Also, I can not remember hearing that holy should be king of AoE-healing, only that Disc was meant for tankheal whereas Holy also has the means to other tasks - and this is true with the current build.
€: The thing that does indeed seem odd is that Constantius´ experience indicates that CoH might be useless at all (like Pre-TBC) which would be a bit sad.
The sad thing is that we were told that holy should be the the aoe-healing-tree - if not alltogether than at least for the priest.
Most new talents and spells(!) dont do anything for it since most focuse on GH, FH and BH. The only new talent that focusses on aoe-healing is worse than another higher up in the tree. The other is a blow up of a former PVP-talent that may or may not help while aoe-healing. I think that is a little bit odd for an aoe-healing-tree, especialy if you cannot hold up the one(!) aoe-healing-spell that you get in that tree and have to switch to single-target heals instead.
AoE healing doesn't mean spamming CoH though. It means using CoH, PoM, Renew, Flash Heal, Binding Heal and maybe PoH. And our talents do go a long way to help that. CoH having a high chance to proc SoL to get off an instant FH is effective for aoe healing. And a much better game-play experience than chain spamming CoH.
And our Holy Talents focus on making Flash Heal more efficient. Creating more benefit for Binding Heal (double chance to crit, higher base hps than Flash Heal) and increasing the throughput on Prayer of Mending.
They probably should include Renew in Divine Providence >.> Seems rather unnatural we haven't gotten anything to enhance Renew in 3 years.
Have any of you done any considerable amount of arena on the PTR or Beta? After playing well over 200 arena games on beta so far, with various partners and in various brackets, I feel much less sustainable and survivable than I do on live. Our lack of mana efficiency on live is compensated by the strong threat we have with psychic scream->mana burn, and dispel - unforunately mana burn scaling is outrageously poor, dispel is very expensive (not even taking into consideration how prevalent rng resist talents are among classes), and it's still impossible to land a fear on any druid who is remotely aware of his surroundings due to our lack of mobility. It would seem that up to this point, not much response is being giving to the functionality of priests in pvp environments. It was disheartening to see the first post in ~2 weeks consisting of nothing more than a promised swap between inner fire and imp pw:s. I think one simple fix that might help would be completely changing divine hymn to something else; chastise, a targeted sleep, or even something along the lines of a new heal or activated mana regen pell to make it viable in pvp and pve? A six minute cooldown CC that has a 1.5 second cast time and shares DR with psychic scream just seems to greatly lack finesse.
I found Koraa's response to this to be very odd, as it is greatly due to their announcement that Desperate Prayer would be implemented with only a 30 second cooldown that people are so disappointed by what it actual ended up being.
Priests are strait up broken in WoTLK PVP. No way to deal with the insane DPS being thrown out, because we're working with TBC defensive abilities which have been nerfed and going up against nastier DPS skills, talents, and weapons.
I don't know if they've even started trying to balance for PVP - either way Priests will get some PVP buffs inevitably because they're just trash in PVP atm.
I'm not 100% sure if this is the correct thread for this question, but does anyone know if there will be a change in either the cost or the mechanics of dispelling? I've always found it strange the paladin variant of the spell is way more powerfull (10 yards more range while being cheaper, also removes disease/poison). I haven't seen anything about this so far but I hoped someone who's tried the test would ease my restless mind
If you run a team that has at least one melee class with a snare, as things stand right now, I see no reason why you would ever want to attack anything on a priest's team other than the priest, for any reason, ever.
Solutions include:
-Having fade's snare removal just be baseline
-Penance self castability
-A desperate prayer cooldown that would somewhat discourage full-match-trains
Priests: Walking around ruins of lordaeron tomb at 30% movement speed since 2007.
I have the same sentiments. It looks to me as if Priests are going to lose survivability relative to dps output. There are a few options to bolster our chances: Increasing mobility, more damage reduction, more healing/efficiency under presser, reliable uninterruptible CC.
By the looks of it damage reduction is dropping. Shadowform loses damage reduction. Focused Will is being reduced. Holy just doesn't gain anything.
While uninterruptible healing output does appear to go up with bigger Shields, crit PoM, SoL instant Flash Heals, it doesn't go up anywhere near as much as dps will increase. Our spammable high throughput spells will still be interruptible.
Our efficiency looks worse than before. From what I read about holy/disc/shadow ptr longevity we're in for dark times.
What every tree needs is a (unique) powerful tool against melee. Shadow's fade and fear damage reduction look good. I wonder how well they will work out. Dispersion dropping physical debuffs could be good. (Would make sense too.)
Disc either needs even better Shields or some goody like an anti-poison spell or some Penance useful to the Priest.
Holy could be helped by the Desperate Prayer, or some form of CC.
But we really, really need something! At the moment I'm set for goind Shadow when the next patch hits. At least I get to use my healing gear and for a while I'll be able to blame my failure on not being familiar with the spec.
I'm not 100% sure if this is the correct thread for this question, but does anyone know if there will be a change in either the cost or the mechanics of dispelling? I've always found it strange the paladin variant of the spell is way more powerfull (10 yards more range while being cheaper, also removes disease/poison). I haven't seen anything about this so far but I hoped someone who's tried the test would ease my restless mind
This is just a form of function. Paladin dispel (Cleanse) is 'friendly target only', and thus is a 40-yard range. Our dispel is offensive/defensive, so it's 30 yards. It's a pain in the butt, but it's the price we pay for being able to 'purge'.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
Because they include Holy Concentration and Surge of Light, which you omitted.
Flash Heal heals for 2040 @ 18% mana with a coefficient of 100.57%. Renew heals for 1400 @ 17% with a coefficient of 193%.
Both are affected by Spiritual Healing, so we can ignore that. Flash Heal can crit, Renew can't. Renew gets 115% if you spec Improved Renew. Flash Heal receives a Glyph, Renew receives MA 5/5.
Flash Heal receives Surge of Light, Holy Concentration, Serendipity and Test of Faith.
Our total result for Renew is pretty easy: 104.177 + 0.1437 hppm.
Flash Heal's efficiency is not linear to critical, so to make it easy we'll assert a value for buffed critical of 20%. We'll say we get Serendipity and Test of Faith each 15% of the time (and ignoring the bonus crit on Test of Faith because it's annoying to calculate)..
The chance that the previous Flash Heal crit is 20% - 20% * 20% * .5 = 18%. This is the chance that the previous Flash Heal would have crit ignoring SoL, minus the chance that the Flash Heal before that crit with a SoL.
So we have a 9% chance of a Surge of Light or Holy Concentration and a 4.05% chance of Holy Concentration without Surge of Light.
So:
86.95% of the time we'll pay 16.2% - 3.75% = 12.45% for 2244 + 110.610%
4.05% of the time we'll pay 0% - 3.75% = -3.75% for 2244 + 110.610%
9.00% of the time we'll pay 0% - 3.75% = -3.75% for 2058 + 101.477%
In total our efficiency ends up being 215.457 + 0.1062 * spellpower hppm. So Renew is inferior hppm up until ~2970 spellpower under the assumptions outlined.
Note that if you want to make it a bit more involved, you can add in the Test of Faith critical chance. Also, keep in mind that while Renew scales linearly with spellpower in terms of efficiency, Flash Heal scales exponentially with regard to spell critical.
Paladin dispel (Cleanse) is 'friendly target only', and thus is a 40-yard range. Our dispel is offensive/defensive, so it's 30 yards.
Apparently they can differentiate that now -- Penance is 40y for healing and 30y for "damage". Maybe they could easily add that to Dispel. I'd suggest that if I could post to US-Beta forums...
I tried to get a picture about SPI/INT/cir rate values at the early raiding in WoTLK. So just showing the results from it:
- Items marked with lvl 200 ( this include T7_10 set ), for the other slots the priority was (SPI>crit > MP5 > haste).
- Enchances: Bracers(18 spi), Chest(+10 stats), Weapon(+50 SD), gloves(+30 SD), pants( 50 SD, 20 SPI), shoulders( 24 SD, 6 MP5), Cloak( 10 SPI).
- Consumables ( 64 SPI scroll, +20 stats battle elexir, +50 SPI guardian. ( No food or oils - couldnt find the values for them)
- Buffs AI, MOTW, BOW(not impr), Moonkin aura, totems, IF.
- Base stats - I have no idea what are the base stats at lvl 80, was looking for them but found only druid one so geting them. Averange SPI/INT as base stats at lvl 80 for them are 150 INT/150 SPI.
- NOTE that I have 4xRed, 1 meta, 2xBlue,1 meta and 24 SPI/4 haste socket bonus not added to this.
Having all this in mind we are geting next values:
- 948/1042(BoK) INT
- 961/1105(BoK/SOR) SPI
- 890/979(BoK) STA
- 546 crit rate ( 225 is only from moonkin aura)
- 1852 SD
So If we add gems/food/oils we will end at something like 1100 INT 1200 SPI at the start of WoTLK raiding - fully raid buffed.
The main thing that I want to see is how usefull is SPI against other attributes for regen. The point is what regen we will get from 16 SPI vs 16 INT vs 6 MP5. (Note its the gem values)
Using the formula for SPI regen at lvl 80 ( http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c..._level_80_a/):
MR( SPI,INT) = (0.001+SPI*0.005575*(INT^0.5))*5
But note that if we assume that we have replenishment buff all the time, which is 0.25% total mana per seconds. It will increase the value of int with 5*0.25 =1.25% from 264 mana = 3.3 MP5 INFSR.
As result we have:
- 16 spi gem : 17 MP5 OOFSR, 6.29 MP5 90% INFSR, 4.6 SD
- 16 int gem: 12.14 MP5 OOFSR, 6.57 MP5 90% INFSR, 264 mana, 0.11% crit.
Conclusion, if we assume, full raid buffed with replenishment up all the time and lvl 200 gears, INT is better stat than SPI even without mental str. Its very sad to see INT outperforming SPI for priest class in raid conditions.
[Note 1] There is very similar relation between INT vs SPI at higher levels of int/spi values like 1400/1500.
[Note 2] I don't include the fiend regen which is also based on INT in the calculations, nor the lower mana cost to flash heal/greater heal coming for crit and HC/IHC/SoL - this will increase the value of INT even more.
[Note 3] I don't calculate the regen coming from SD and Serendipity ( higher GH = higher chance to over heal = lower mana cost for GH ) becouse its too small.
Casting 9 CoH produces only 1% less effective healing compared to 10 CoH with mental agility. Same with PoM.
....
I can do exactly what you do with CoH/PoM by taking DP instead of mental agility. Name any senario you like.
Regarding the second statement, MA also affects Renew which sounds like being an important component in WotLK healing from what Constantius says (personally only play PTR, not beta). It also affects dispels, which are a mana drain in some TBC encounters (cannot speak for WotLK encounters) and shields. On the other hand, DP affects Prayer of Healing and Binding Heal. So we cannot directly compare DP with MA.
Also, directly comparing the two mechanisms by amount healed assumes that we can fully make use of the additional amount healed by CoH and PoM. At least in the case of PoM, that's doubtful. In the case of CoH, it surely depends a lot on the encounter.
Given the mana cost of the new CoH, to me it looks much more like an emergency spell or as a "finisher" after PoH, to mop up what's left to heal.
Sidenote: let's also not get the discussion too heated. DP and MA both are not about healing mechanisms that may or may not cause problems. Both are just linear numerical parameters to mana cost or amount healed. That's very easy to fix by Blizzard and bound to change until release anyway.
The baseline from how I read Constantius is that the holy tree as such is currently not good enough regarding multitarget healing for DP to matter enough. This is a message that I consider far more important, as it also means that even at 80 our multitarget healing capability has been noticably restricted.
This is just a form of function. Paladin dispel (Cleanse) is 'friendly target only', and thus is a 40-yard range. Our dispel is offensive/defensive, so it's 30 yards. It's a pain in the butt, but it's the price we pay for being able to 'purge'.
Hmm good point although I've always felt the 30 yard "punishment" combined with more than double the mana cost is a bit much. The range indeed is a big pain in the butt PvE-whise imo, I was never to worried about the mana cost though reading more and more posts I'm really starting to worry about this spell draining us really fast. Ofcourse I'm comparing to TBC encounters now, I might worry too much, maybe encounters will be balanced around this.
I didn't see it mentioned but according to this post WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Five ways to fix Holy quickly the new "heal on death" for Guardian Spirit is bumped up from 10% to 50%. I think this makes the talent very good now. Going 21/50 might not be as great of an idea anymore. I'd even go as far to say that a MA build might not be the most effective now and I'm probably back to a 14/57/0 build.
Apparently they can differentiate that now -- Penance is 40y for healing and 30y for "damage". Maybe they could easily add that to Dispel. I'd suggest that if I could post to US-Beta forums...
As far as I know, that's already been done. I'll have to check my beta priest again as soon as I get home.
I'm not 100% sure if this is the correct thread for this question, but does anyone know if there will be a change in either the cost or the mechanics of dispelling? I've always found it strange the paladin variant of the spell is way more powerfull (10 yards more range while being cheaper, also removes disease/poison). I haven't seen anything about this so far but I hoped someone who's tried the test would ease my restless mind
As far as I know Dispel Magic on Beta/PTR has 40 yards friendly range and 30 yards hostile range. That's a long over-due change really. What still ticks me off about it is that some classes have offensive abilities with longer ranges than Priest defensive abilities, hunters and mages come to mind.
Particularly Hunters though. That means positioning is irrelevant in PvP if I heal a Melee engaged with a Hunter. I'll be in range anyway. It's both annoying and frustrating, but I guess no change is in sight. The sad thing is that Hunters need this to be able to fight the other three Healing classes. Unfortunately it gives is the stick because they are a real bane to anyone who can't dispel Viper Sting.
Renew
Mana Cost: 590 (MA)
Base Heal: 1400 over 15 seconds (note that the Glyph is currently broken, and not giving correct #s)
Cast Time: GCD
Coefficient: 2.27 [5070 @ 1503 spellpower : (Base+spell*1.05*1.88)*1.15]
These are the current coefficients as I get them. See if I missed any math or any reason why they should be something else. Also note that the true coefficients are *1.1, since Spiritual Healing multiplies them.
[e] As you did, I will ignore Spiritual Healing. Renew HPM
(1400 + 2.27*spell)/590 = 2.37+0.00385*Spell HpM
(specific value: 8.6 HpM @ 1503 spell)
Flash Heal: assume Serendipity, Test of Faith, 3/3 HC & 3/3 IHC, and Surge of Light, for the "deep holy" build; 0/5 MA
Base: (2050+1.01*spell)*1.1/625 = 6.3 HpM (1.1 = 20% crit @ 50% crit multiplier)
Now, as you did, I will assume we get Serendipity to proc 15% of the time, along with Test of Faith. We have a 20% chance to get a crit; of those, half will proc SoL, and 45% (non-exclusive) will proc HC. A rough estimate of the total number of crits that will give us a completely free heal is 72%. I'm going to ballpark it and say half of these will be SoL and incapable of crits.
[Aside: if we have a 50% chance to proc SoL, and a 45% chance to proc IHC, then the chances of proc'ing them both (independent RVs) is ~ 25%. Then probability of getting 1 or more procs on our cast is P(A)+P(B) - P(A int B) = ~ 0.72. I ran some Monte Carlo-type simulations, and this is what I found, over 500 casts:
Chance of getting SoL or IHC, non-exclusive: ~ 75%
Chance of getting SoL or IHC, exclusive: ~ 43%
Chance of getting SoL and IHC: 27%]
So we have a 20 * 0.75 = 15% chance of getting a free Flash of Light, through one of our two mechanics. We have a 20* 0.43 = 8.6% chance of getting a free through one and only one mechanic (not losing any procs).
I'm just going to play ballpark, and say 50/50 split on SoL/IHC procs. Maybe you're really pro and click off a couple of the dual procs (SoL) so that you get the IHC slightly more and have a chance to crit. It's not worth worrying about the difference between 50% and 45%.
Thus we have a 7.5% chance of getting a SoL proc for a free Flash Heal with no chance to crit. We have a 7.5% chance of getting an IHC proc for a free Flash Heal with a 20% chance to crit.
Thus:
85% of the time our Flash Heal will cost full mana (modeled above).
7.5% of the time we will get a SoL proc, for no mana, no crit.
7.5% of the time we will get an IHC proc for no mana, 20% crit chance.
These situations are detailed below. SoL proc
Mana Cost: 0.
Amount Healed: 2050+1.01*spell
Possible amount regen: 15% of the time, regain 4.05% base.
IHC proc
Mana Cost: 0
Amount Healed: (2050+1.01*spell)*1.1
Possible amount regen: 15% of the time, regain 4.05% base.
So, breaking it down:
Average cost of a Flash Heal: 625 (72%), 469 (13%), -156 (1.1%), -156 (1.1%), 0 (12.8%) = 507 mana
Average amount healed: 3924*.925 + 3568*.075 = 3897
HpM: 7.69 HpM
Test of Faith
Ignoring the crit on Test of Faith (which will be a slight buff to HpM, simply because of higher chances to proc IHC/SoL), we gain an additional 6% healing to FH whenever the target is below 50% (which occurs 15% of the time by our model). Thus, updated:
Average cost: 507 mana (does not change)
Average amount healed: 3924*.925[0.85+0.15*1.06] + 3568*.075[0.85+0.15*1.06] = 3932
HpM: 7.76 HpM
So at 1500 spellpower, Renew (assuming all ticks are not overheal) is slightly higher HpM than Flash Heal. It also has the advantage of healing over time, so it's better at healing periodic environmental damage (like the frost aura on Sapphiron, for example). However, with all the deep holy talents, we see that FH is almost as efficient. This is a huge change from TBC, where FH is one of our most inefficient spells.
TL;DR: Flash Heal is useful now, and quite efficient relative to Renew. If you get higher than 20% proc rate on Serendipity, then Flash Heal is more efficient than Renew.
One more aside: this model is severely screwed, since there is no way you should be using IHC procs on Flash Heal, especially considering Serendipity. You'd be a moron to waste it on FH when you could cast GH:9, overheal almost surely, and regain 6.8-8.0% base mana (depending on whether or not amount returned is affected by Improved Healing). Basically, IHC is a chance to cast a 10k heal and regain a minimum of 262 mana, assuming there isn't a tank who actually needs all 10k of the heal.
Last edited by constantius : 09/24/08 at 3:28 PM.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
Experience in general: Sapphiron, for example, is a long, intensive fight. It has a 1k aura that ticks constantly (like Felmyst), a Blizzard that ticks for 3.5k, and a tank taking reasonable, steady damage. It all has to be healed. When I tried healing it with CoH, I went OOM so incredibly fast it wasn't even funny. Less than 2 minutes, with trinket, Shadowfiend, Hymn of Hope, Inner Focus, and a Runic Mana pot, with a 15k mana pool starting off. We changed the strat, focused the healing assignments, and I used almost exclusively Renew for raid healing. It worked much much better, and we beat the fight on the next attempt. I used 4 Renews every ~ 15 seconds, did some regen, and occasionally used a PoM, FH, or GH to top up someone who took a Blizzard tick. Despite being "like" Felmyst, there was no way to sustain CoH spam.
Just wondering why no use of POH 6 here? It's much more sustainable than coh and has to be cheaper than 5x renew, no? Positioning, playstyle, or is POH simply too expensive to hit 2x then regen? Or something else - I haven't played any Beta.
I have found that POH is much more powerful than most priests give it credit for, and that while COH is very nice and easy, skillful use of POH can often yield more healing for less mana.
Three points on PoH on Sapphiron:
1) It's hard to stand still. The blizzards are crazy. They move fast, they hit hard, and they actually follow players, so if one gets on you, you're on the move for 10+ seconds.
2) People are all spread out, so no guarantees of hitting more than 2-3 with PoH. I'm willing to make the sacrifice for CoH, because it's less mana, but a PoH which doesn't hit at least 4 people is wasted.
3) The tank and another healer were in my group, so PoH didn't do much for them; it was the melee primarily who needed to be healed.
@ firebird:
The numbers I get for my full Sunwell gear, re-gemmed with common/rare quality WotLK gems, and completely re-enchanted (rings, chest, bracers, gloves, belt socket, legs, boots, weapon; no helm/shoulders) is: Walking into Naxx-10
805 Intellect
1100 Spirit
2180 Spellpower
Walking out of Naxx-10 (no 25-man drops; full 10-man drops)
1080 Intellect
1300 Spirit
2600 Spellpower
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
Just wondering why no use of POH 6 here? It's much more sustainable than coh and has to be cheaper than 5x renew, no? Positioning, playstyle, or is POH simply too expensive to hit 2x then regen? Or something else - I haven't played any Beta.
I have found that POH is much more powerful than most priests give it credit for, and that while COH is very nice and easy, skillful use of POH can often yield more healing for less mana.
The basic problem with PoH is, that it is too unflexible and has too high casting time to make it a viable raid-spell (at least in 25 mans) whereas CoH is cheap, flexible and produces very little overheal (€: at the current TBC-moment, that is).
In 5mans PoH has always been one of the most powerful instruments and also one which every other healing class (even shamans from time to time) is greedy of. Especially combined with IF PoH is extremely powerful if you are the single healer and have the ability to time it adequatly.
Nevertheless, there are very few raid situations where it´s useful (Najentus being one of the only where it is really powerful and timeable without laying danger to other persons that could have been healed during the casting time).
I did the calculations taking into account critical for int and spellpower for spirit. I did not check your calculations kortar so I am assuming they are correct.
You can get 57 intellect or 58 spirit along with 3.2% haste instead of 5% crit. At 700 spirit, 900 int they both end up giving you about 23-24mp5 (80% FSR), so overall the gain on build1+IHC is 20odd mp5. This does not increase much with increased crit stacking, because you then have to take into account the decreased value of crit from the loss of spellpower and the decreased value of clearcasting from decreased ooFSR regen, which I don't here.
The calculations is of course stacked in favour of clearcasting by assuming minimal returns from healing prayers, so it's going to end up being less than 20mp5. If you end up using PoH more than once a minute (e.g. najentus, bloodboil, RoS) then IHC+build1 make a loss compared to build 2. The efficiency of build 1 also depends on 80% of your healing coming from GH/FH/BH.
The calculations is of course stacked in favour of clearcasting by assuming minimal returns from healing prayers, so it's going to end up being less than 20mp5. If you end up using PoH more than once a minute (e.g. najentus, bloodboil, RoS) then IHC+build1 make a loss compared to build 2. The efficiency of build 1 also depends on 80% of your healing coming from GH/FH/BH.
The problem of making this assumption is that the fights you list were explicitly put into the game because priests weren't taking CoH. It sounds dumb, but Blizzard has said as much. It was a deliberate attempt to make the spell viable and Blizz has said they do not expect to do this (or the almost cascade of similar fights in Sunwell) again. We certainly aren't getting reports of AoE spam fights like these through Malygos, matching much more the use case of classic or TBC through the T5 fights. (Although saying Naxx is like classic is kind of obvious.)
You can get 57 intellect or 58 spirit along with 3.2% haste instead of 5% crit.
You're forgetting about the +100 spellpower.
You made a statement saying that your calculations demonstrated that as long as 5% spell critical was more expensive on gear than 3.2% spell haste, +100 spellpower and 60-odd mp5, spell critical and the whole HC/IHC/SoL concept was a bad idea. Except that it's pretty easy to show that, by itemization costs, 5% spell critical is in fact much cheaper than the 3.2% spell haste/+100 spellpower/60-odd mp5 it generates.
Ergo, either your original calculations were wrong or your original thesis was wrong.
note: With the 38 spell critical rating left over after we subtract the haste/spellpower conversions, you can get 38 Spirit.With +5% to Spirit and 25% Spirit -> Spellpower, we end up with an 'itemization equivalent' of 48.16 Spirit. With 900 Intellect, you gain 0.83625 mp5 per point of Spirit @ 0% FSR, or 40.27 mp5 @ 0% FSR. With 3/3 Meditation and 80% FSR, we end up with 17.72 mp5. Which is a lot less than the ~45 or so we'd need to justify taking the spellpower/mp5/haste over the spell critical.
I was contemplating the various aspects of the napkin math we're throwing around and it struck me that our modelling of ToF/Serendipity was pretty poor. For example, if you're Flash Heal'ing someone there is essentially a zero chance you'll get both Serendipity and Test of Faith working at the same time.
But it seems there's a better way to model it. Consider Flash Heal. Let's say a Flash Heal is approximately one third of our target's health and that our 'target number' is 60% health (that's when we'd ideally like to throw the heal). We'll then lay a normal distribution over the range with a (rather arbitrary) value of 10% for the standard deviation.
So for non-critical heals, we'd get ToF 15.9% of the time, Serendipity 25.2% of the time, and neither 58.9% of the time.
For critical heals, we'd get ToF the same 15.9% of the time, Serendipity 84.1% of the time, and neither 0% of the time.
Note that the "one third of health" seems a reasonably good estimation of non-tank health. For tank health, you can essentially make the claim that Greater Heal is one third health. In theory, once we get enough parses to form a decent data set, we can look at real-world performance to derive these rates as well.
I agree with you, Ramiro, that we need a better model. However, assuming FH is 33% is a bit flawed, since almost all level 80s have 16k+ HP. Most plate-wearing classes seem to be pushing 22k+ on Beta atm, although that may be because of the prevalence of PvP gear. So FH, non-crit, is about 20-25%. That's low enough that Serendipity procs are going to be fairly low as a percentage.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
I'm not 100% sure if this is the correct thread for this question, but does anyone know if there will be a change in either the cost or the mechanics of dispelling? I've always found it strange the paladin variant of the spell is way more powerfull (10 yards more range while being cheaper, also removes disease/poison). I haven't seen anything about this so far but I hoped someone who's tried the test would ease my restless mind
The mana cost is reflective of the versatility of the spell. Dispel costs as much as cleanse + purge because it can be used offensively or defensively. However, since you obviously cannot do both at once, there is no reason for it to be double the mana cost, and I'd much rather it just be broken into two separate spells or have different cost/effect depending on its usage (not unlike penance).
Originally Posted by Supermerkicus
Priests are strait up broken in WoTLK PVP. No way to deal with the insane DPS being thrown out, because we're working with TBC defensive abilities which have been nerfed and going up against nastier DPS skills, talents, and weapons.
I don't know if they've even started trying to balance for PVP - either way Priests will get some PVP buffs inevitably because they're just trash in PVP atm.
I didn't feel so strongly about this before actually playing arena on beta. If I am even able to survive through burst, I'm still very likely to lose the game due to mana (even against 2dps), and entirely incapable of winning against any opposing team that has a hunter. Having cleared Naxx in full pvp gear without feeling overwhelmingly underpowered, I had anticipated feeling about the same in arena as I do on live. In actuality, it's essentially unplayable.
In the duration of imp:cs(4 seconds), just your run-of-the-mill 19669 damage (and yes, I trinketed out of deep freeze :p) - I am wearing ~800 resilience.
09/24/08, 11:34 AM
