Yes but in addition to Kamakaze's points you (or whoever does combat log analysis or runs a damage/heal meter) need to know how many points in Rapture you have. I don't like that. Yes one can assume it's 5 but it's still a value that I don't want to have to know in order to say in-combat how much pseudo-healing that discipline priest just did.

I definitely agree that it's not the best possible scenario, and that it's a huge pain, but until absorb effects show up on WWS/Meters it's the best I can come up with.

Just have to add that anything less than 5 points in Rapture is kinda stupid, as it seems to not be a 20% loss of gains. 1/5 Rapture seems to give 1/25th of the returns of 5/5. (Not done exact match, just noted that the last point in Rapture gives more than the 4 first).

While on the topic of bugs, Borrowed Time still gives bonus to PW: Shield inversely of the amount of talents spent in it. 1/5 BT gives 40% bonus from Spell Power. 5/5 BT gives 8%.

That isn't a bug, all JoL heals are supposed to be attributed to the Paladin that casts it.

However, Recount is reporting all healing done instead of effective healing, so JoL is coming up with ridiculous numbers even though most of it is overhealing.

I didn't get this bug, but I encountered a similar one.

We did a ZA run with 2 holy priests and a shaman. I am not specced for SoL the other priest was. I was getting SoL procs when he was around. Didn't get any SoL procs when he wasn't. Quite odd bug if you ask me.

I picked up a Surge of Light in a battleground like that. I think it was due to the Holy Priest's Prayer of Mending crit healing me--but that's just a guess...

I think there is a bug with prayer of mending that means when you overwrite someone elses or they overwrite yours, then it still think it is your prayer of mending but also the other players prayer of mending. Meaning you get to proc all your effects and all the other players affects.

I had Divine Aegis, Inspiration and Surge of Light trigger several times when I only have spcced into DA and none of the others.

I don't think that's a bug necessarily- they still would benefit by having a reduced GCD.

My main problem is that it's only affecting penance first tick, which already is instant. Make it affect all 3 ticks with 25% haste and I'd be really happy because now I'm wasting many borrowed time buffs.

Personally i'd be throwing a GH after it, not penance, exactly for that reason

Yeah but there are times when you save some random raid member with a shield and then directly have to heal the tank, and since penance heals so fast I've kinda got it built in by now to use it

I am not going to complain about Penance, it also has some nifty things to it. And I suspect they're all the way its coded. For instance, each tick has a chance to proc [Eye of Gruul] or [Crystal Spire of Karabor]. Sure, those are level 70 items, but there's at least 1-3 level 80ish items that are similar.

Fake Edit:
I suspect, but have not tested, that because of this funky mechanic it would also have 3 chances to proc things like [Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon]. If you ask me, only having the first tick benefit from Borrowed Time is a small price to pay for this extra usefulness. And I am confident if we got Borrowed Time "fixed" they would also take out the additional perks.

Was just thinking about whether to spec holy or disc and it does seem to me there is a scaling issue in terms of mana regeneration. Holy's mana regeneration is tied to static reductions in the mana cost of direct heals, a mana refund on overhealing (serendipity) and potential free heals which also grant some time out of the 5sr. Disciplines mana regeneration is through critical heals creating a shield (reduction on future healing required) and a 2.5% return on total mana. This total mana and the effects of replenishment being enhanced through mental strength giving a 15% intelligence boost.

It does seem to me that at some point assuming that mana exhaustion is an issue the scaling return on discipline will overbalance the static return on holy. This difference was enhanced when spirit regeneration scaling was reduced though the effects of oo5sr are hard to model. Some back of the napkin maths suggests that using greater heal the crossover point is 7440 mana for greater heal to become more efficient for discipline priests. Of course holy priests will have a greater scaling with spellpower because getting rapture precludes empowered healing. This is before considering the boosted shield and penance which also gain from this dynamic.

Both classes seem to be designed to go out of mana quite quickly when casting group heals as most of the mana regeneration effects switch off. Discipline does not have Circle of healing but does have the now quite buffed holy nova and prayer of healing. I assume a priest doing raid healing will have a hybrid build constructed specifically for that use.

I guess my summary is that unless you are raid healing via CoH the discipline build has some strong advantages in its scaling mana efficiency. This is probably fairly obvious, but I didn't fully realise how powerful rapture was.

Watched a bit closer, but I find it difficult to see when I get SoL procs, the few I did notice I don't think I got healed by a prom crit. It does make sense to blame prom for it, perhaps simply overwriting mine by him on someone else is enough to make it proc for me.

7440 mana? That is odd, 2.5% of 7440 mana is 186 mana, which is about the same return as from serendipity at lvl 70. However rapture works off effective healing not total healing and that is a fairly big limiting factor, serendipity on the other hand works on any overheal. The return I get from serendipity at level 70 as holy, when casting gheal is something in the order of 20-30% more than what I get from rapture. Penance is what makes discipline really good, as it is already very cheap and with rapture it becomes dirt cheap. The shields are also a very big advantage when single target healing. In heroics the reduction in incoming damage is very noticeable.

Hi guys. Been reading through this thread as it has developed. When i saw the changed in Disc tree i was mildly excitited. Though i oughta give this thing a try.

First i like the new play style, being used to just spam endless CoH and not really care about mana or overhealing it was a dick on kayboard roll. Now, with Disc there's a lot more factors in it. Im trying to find the best way of healing a tank, several tanks in a 25man raid.

As you lot say, as of new Penance eats borrowed Time. Id use GH after a borrowed time for sure if possible. My issue is. In perfect world there wouldnt be much crosshealing and other healers would let me have my tank for myself and get the full benefit of being deep disc. This is, however, not a perfect and you wanna keep grace up. I find myself really just spamming shield on tanks, and use penance to to refresh the 3 stacks of grace. I find myself having to overheal quite a bit just to have 3xGrace keep running.

Basicly im asking how you others play deep disc, how is your cycle with spells.

EDIT: also, how capable is a deep disc to keep a MT up. Since you point out that this spec, as it is now, is situational and really only shines on fights like Patchwerk and Bruttalus. Is Deep disc capable of keeping the MT by himself, and wont another healer healing the same MT as you kinda fuck you since you need to actually get effective healing in to get those 2.5 from rupture. So is it all about start casting and cancel it if its gonna be overheal? Or do you just keep casting and overhealing and get those crits for DA?

~Arrox~

Concerning Grace: Of course, you want to have Grace running as disc priest, but refreshing Grace on a tank with full hp is somehwat pointless. No tank with full hp gets insta-gibbed before you are able to react in fights with normal tank damage, thus Grace is very nice in such situations but far from mandatory. However, in Brutallus-like fights where the damage reduction and the increased healing really is very important Grace won´t fall off your tank, simply due to the high amounts of healing you have to provide your tank with, anyway.

Don't kill me if this has been discussed! I couldn't find any information on it in a reasonable amount of time...

Is Reflective Shield working for our targets? I know when I cast it on myself I can see the damage, both in game and on WWS, but I can't find Reflective Shield damage for any of my targets.

I don't exactly have the chance to test it in-game right now, so I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed this, or could confirm whether it reflects properly for targets and not just the priest.

P.S: My Reflective Shield (cast on myself) crit Brutallus for 3.2k last night ^^

The Glyph on PW:S causes a heal right at the time of Shielding. If you shield yourself at 100% HP, you will never get any effect from it. I'm quite certain although I have no proof that I've seen it crit as well and then applying an additional Divine Aegis Shield.

Guys, I have been analyzing results of the discipline build on webstats log of Brutalus fight 19.10.2008.
It was a build without penance, withouth Aegis, but with fully improved shield, 5 points in Rapture and 2 points in Grace.

There are at least few facts observed that are not consistent with the expected behaviour:

1. Numbers for Rapture mana return indicate that for fully used FH or GH amount of mana returned is higher then 2.5%. My theory for the behaviour is that 2.5% applies to a basic value of the spell and not the one improved by spell power. Numbers I have seen were about 2x higher and before patch my + healing was about 2400. That fits into the observation.
2. PW:S was not triggering Rapture at all. I could asses effect of the shield as it was often the main source of absorbtion and it was consistently 2650 damage absorbed. But no Rapture numbers coresponding with it were present in the log. I would tend to think that it is a bug connected to the fact, that it is not possible to identify source of the absorbtion on the target.

Could you please comment?

That's really strange, as I've seen multiple reports of glyph of power word: shield not working with divine aegis.

I have a thread on the beta forums with a list of bugs that I've compiled from reports, but it might have some things that have been fixed already.

PW:S Glyph are indeed capable of crit, around 750ish, it does, however, NOT proc DA.