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11/05/08, 11:25 AM
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#136
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Bald Bull
Dukes
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Originally Posted by Shocktar
Really? I've yet to experience this. Granted, levelling grants you more spirit, which, with Spiritual Healing, would bolster the spell's power, but I've seen absolutely no reason to believe that simply levelling up makes spells more powerful. Do you have proof that this is the case?
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Like I said, it's very small. I remember noticing it on my mage, where Fireball gained 1 damage every level, or something similar. It certainly applies to Demoralising Roar for Druids, which gains 1 AP reduction per level up to the next rank (which is why people were confused as to the Druid one being 3 AP lower than the Warrior one, while the Druid one is trainable at 77 and the Warrior one is trainable at 80, or something like that).
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11/05/08, 12:10 PM
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#137
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In gear/DCT lock pin
Human Priest
Alleria (EU)
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Originally Posted by Tashia
So you need s**t load of bad luck to miss all 4 attacks..
It never happened to me and I tanked more than 6-7 months the most I missed 2 times in a row but that was not enough for the dps to overaggro.
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So far I haven't seen 4 misses in a row, but I have seen bosses look at me very shortly after pull with our druid tank tanking without being misdirected. In these cases, the WWS showed 3 misses in sequence, or with one white hit in between. I have seen this specifically with Nalorakk and Halazzi in Zul'Aman, both of which - can - hit very hard, requiring early and heavy healing.
To get back to the point: though this is a valid point that can be made (and is made by some tanks), preshielding is still better than not doing it. Maybe it's possible to construct a case where preshielding actually hurts, but I'm positively sure this will really be a rare case and will have to involve tanks with low amounts of hit and expertise.
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson
The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.
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11/06/08, 8:39 AM
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#138
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Von Kaiser
Human Priest
Terenas (EU)
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I have tried to get stats values for the armor and weapons at level 80. For easiness I have calculated all items as being ilvl=200 and all items being purple.
Max level items available in armory has been used as base for the calculation. I have copied their stats into a spreadsheet, calculated its ilvl using wowwiki formulas to find if the formula gets the armory ilvl correctly. After that I have changed all stats proportionally to get the item to ilvl 200. I have calculated value of sockets for those items by applying proper color epic gems into it. So it is to be expected, that for items with sockets, values of stats on those items will be smaller then those presented here.
Spell power value of the one handed mace is in row marked DPS->Spell as main portion of its power comes from DPS sacrifice. Formulas can be found on wiki as well.
Coefficients needed for all selected items to get them to ilvl 200 were in range from 1.25 to 1.35. I interpret that as 30% increase of stats for ilvl 200 as compared to ilvl 146-164. It can in my opinion serve as yet another rule of thumb for players with BT/SWP gear - their stats should be about 30% higher at level 80 after 10 men Naxx.
All values are raw values, that is before the modification by talent coefficients.
I realize that is simplification, but it can give us an idea of the gained stats for the calculation purposes and it is not some theoretical value, but the one derived from items designed by Blizzard.
Sta Spi Int SPwr Haste Mp5
0.67 1 1 0.86 0.9 2.5
Head 51 66 75 88
Chest 47 39 45 93 52 21
Legs 65 43 55 92 23
Shoulder 42 38 33 67 42 11
Hands 43 56 39 74 0 0
Waist 28 44 38 66 11 18
Feet 35 38 46 73 25 10
Wrist 25 26 28 63 21 6
Neck 35 0 25 54 32 13
Back 31 0 33 59 40 0
Finger1 41 42 29 51 0 0
Finger2 41 42 29 51 0 0
Off-hand 45 0 27 50 30 12
Ranged 11 24 0 38 11 0
1H Wpn 24 13 32 6 29 11
DPS->Spell 374
Total 562 471 532 926 292 127
Here is the wiki link Item level - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Last edited by metapseudo : 11/06/08 at 9:04 AM.
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11/06/08, 10:52 AM
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#139
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Von Kaiser
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Shielding tanks should not create any rage problems in 3.0. I have healed heroics where incoming damage was so low I healed almost exclusively with shield, and still the dps were not tearing aggro off the tank, this was without Replenish or Blessing of Sanctuary, on small and large pulls. From everything I've seen between live and beta, threat is just not a thing to worry about right now.
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11/06/08, 11:14 AM
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#140
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by metapseudo
I have tried to get stats values for the armor and weapons at level 80. For easiness I have calculated all items as being ilvl=200 and all items being purple.
I realize that is simplification, but it can give us an idea of the gained stats for the calculation purposes and it is not some theoretical value, but the one derived from items designed by Blizzard.
Sta Spi Int SPwr Haste Mp5
Finger1 41 42 29 51 0 0
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Your totals looked a lot lower than the ones I had been using, which I got from adding up values from items actually found so far on the beta, so I took a look over the approximations you had given here to find one with an easy comparison. Compare to Signet of Hopeful Light from the wowhead Wrath site (no item link because they go to the wowhead main site where the item does not exist). The signet has:
Sta Int Haste SPwr
Finger1 42 50 36 58
I reordered the stats to show the comparison, but haste rating, int and spirit have the same item point cost, so the comparison works. Your approximation of items stats does not line up with actual items that have dropped, which have consistently higher stats. I don't think WoWWiki's formula is really that reliable. The totals you listed are closer to the totals for blue level 200 items than purple ones.
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11/07/08, 10:35 AM
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#141
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Glass Joe
Undead Priest
Twisting Nether
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I'm sure most of you have heard that Blizzard is considering a 6 second CD to CoH (if not, source).
I don't have experience raiding at 80 in Beta, and was wondering what some of your opinions were on this matter. Do we have the tools to deal with the raid damage coming in without spamming CoH? I imagine Chain Heal will be able to fill in most of the gap left, and for the rest we'd be able to Renew/Flash Heal/PoM/PW:S, but like I said I'm not aware of how the fights at 80 work.
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11/07/08, 11:01 AM
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#142
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Priest
Talnivarr (EU)
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I agree with putting a cooldown on both CoH and WG, 6 seconds is however very very hefty and will make stacking an issue. 3-4 seconds is more realistic or remove the smart targetting and keep it off cd.
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11/07/08, 11:08 AM
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#143
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In gear/DCT lock pin
Human Priest
Alleria (EU)
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In my opinion, it doesn't make much sense discussing CoH cooldown in respect to beta content a 80, because Blizzard doesn't plan to change CoH and Wild Growth in isolation.
If you watch the discussion (summary of blue answers here: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Examination on CoH's overuse), it becomes clear that an introduction of a cooldown would also very probably be accompanied by a reduction of raid damage and an increase in single target damage, including changing encounters and modifying tank equipment.
The plan clearly seems to be to prevent CoH and Wild Growth spam while still enabling holy priest and druids to perform a full raid healing role.
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson
The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.
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11/07/08, 6:56 PM
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#144
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Von Kaiser
Troll Priest
Magtheridon (EU)
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Maybe you could clarify how PoM exactly works when stacked (2+ mendings).
Sometimes you can overwrite a mending from someone else, sometimes you cannot and the other priest can't overwrite yours, I suspect its something in the talents but don't really have a clue.
Additionally how does it work when 2 mendings would potentially jump to the same target?
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11/08/08, 12:57 PM
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#145
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Soda Popinski
Pandaren Priest
Windrunner
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Originally Posted by dukes
Like I said, it's very small. I remember noticing it on my mage, where Fireball gained 1 damage every level, or something similar. It certainly applies to Demoralising Roar for Druids, which gains 1 AP reduction per level up to the next rank (which is why people were confused as to the Druid one being 3 AP lower than the Warrior one, while the Druid one is trainable at 77 and the Warrior one is trainable at 80, or something like that).
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Dukes is absolutely right. Every spell you learn, whether damage or healing, increases very slightly as you level, before you get the next rank.
So, for example, GH:7, learned at 68, and having a base value as indicated by WoWhead, actually heals for ~ 15 more at level 70, because you continue to gain 'power' in it as you level. Not much, clearly, but some. You can see this exhibited in the Beta thread where a couple of times I corrected people's base healing amounts with actual in-game level-80 amounts which were not the same.
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Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
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11/10/08, 11:35 AM
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#146
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Von Kaiser
Zomgdie
Undead Priest
Frostmourne
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In regards to the debate between SOL and Lolwell/HP. Do either of you have any hard numbers yet or is it all still specualtion? I can easily see the benfits to both, but pure specuation and assuming 20 procs over a 200 sec fight is not a very convincing argument. Especially considering KJ is far more than 200 secs even post nerf. I havent timed it but I'd estimate its about double that. Using that fight as an example though I can see either being incredibly useful. Being able to toss a flash on the move could easily save lives. That being said tossing down a lightwell under the bubble right as everyone collapses could help mitigate that one jerk spreading fire and help healing up the damage taken from the aoe. Honeslty I think it comes down to the proc rate. Sure there will be times it is wasted, BUT the one time it saves your own life or someone elses it makes up for the 5 previous uses that were over healing/missed. The CD on Lightwell still only makes it situationally useful IMO. 24 free flash heals throughout KJ is potentially saving your raid. Dropping the lightwell will buy you a little oo5sr, but I think I've Oomed on that fight once and it was terrible luck with the mana burn and getting no regen breaths from the dragons.
In our particular case we'll probly have one of us spec'd each way. With me paying attn to Ora and other officer responsibilities mid fight I'll probly take the Lightwell/HP approach as its more "fire and forget" if you will and let Ikasha deal with micro managing procs. Regardless as soon as someones able to get some comparative wws parses I'd be interested in seeing them. And as others have said thanks Nidiba for the awesome job.
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11/10/08, 12:42 PM
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#147
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Zomgdie
In regards to the debate between SOL and Lolwell/HP. Do either of you have any hard numbers yet or is it all still specualtion? I can easily see the benfits to both, but pure specuation and assuming 20 procs over a 200 sec fight is not a very convincing argument. Especially considering KJ is far more than 200 secs even post nerf. I havent timed it but I'd estimate its about double that. Using that fight as an example though I can see either being incredibly useful. .... (rehash what's already been stated)
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To be honest, I'm not sure exactly sure what hard data you're looking for that would convince you either way. SOL is tied to your crit rate. That means that its effectiveness is tied not only to the particulars of your spec, but also to the type of fight you are in and the types of spells you cast. Right now, I almost always get a SOL proc whenever I cast COH, whereas when I'm chain casting gheal, its a less frequent occurrence. Further, the number of talent points you have at 80 makes it very easy to pick up both lightwell and SOL without sacrificing too much. The tradeoff is more throughput on your base spells, for situational tools that increase your mana efficiency and/or allow you to do multiple things at once. Even if you could model it, it seems to me to come down to a personal choice and playstyle issue.
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11/10/08, 4:47 PM
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#148
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Von Kaiser
Human Priest
Terenas (EU)
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Originally Posted by Woozle
... I almost always get a SOL proc whenever I cast COH, whereas when I'm chain casting gheal, its a less frequent occurrence.
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I need an explanation on this please. Tooltip says that chance for getting SoL is based on crit chance of FH, GH and BH.
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11/10/08, 5:01 PM
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#149
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by metapseudo
I need an explanation on this please. Tooltip says that chance for getting SoL is based on crit chance of FH, GH and BH.
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Surge of Light can proc off any spell crit, damage or healing. It doesn't matter what spell you're using, as long as it can crit.
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11/10/08, 5:27 PM
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#150
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Don Flamenco
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It's Holy Concentration that's limited to FH/GH/BH.
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