Ahh fair enough. I've been running 10-man Naxx and Sartharion with a Disc Priest and myself as a full holy priest and we're having a great time healing. Strengths are that of a strong tank healer combined with a strong raid healer. I think that the Imp DS may not be needed (if you run with shamans), however you should definitely take normal divine spirit.
Why would you take Divine Spirit if you're running with a Disc priest? Even otherwise, I have a hard time convincing myself that Divine Spirit is better than the top of the Holy tree. Divine Spirit can be replaced with scrolls.
Why would you take Divine Spirit if you're running with a Disc priest? Even otherwise, I have a hard time convincing myself that Divine Spirit is better than the top of the Holy tree. Divine Spirit can be replaced with scrolls.
I think you mis-read it, I meant that the Discipline priest should definitely take Divine Spirit. However, Imp DS is not always needed as other classes (if you have them in a 10-man group) can provide the spell power buff.
I was wondering if there has been any discussion about the effectiveness of different specs for 5 or 10 mans vs. 25 mans?
I know that Silent Resolve isn't on anyone's list for raiding, but from the 5-mans I've run, I wouldn't go without it.
Are 5 people few enough that Discipline become superior? Are 10 people numerous enough to warrant Holy?
How important is Divine Spirit when you may not have any other class that can provide a spirit buff?
Is Guardian Spirit needed on "smaller" content, or is it used mostly for those predictable huge boss spike damage abilities?
I don't have Silent Resolve and I haven't had any problem in 5-mans. Not even with undergeared and inexperienced Death Knight tanks. From experience I'd say that Disc is really awesome in 5-mans. You'll spend a lot of time tank healing and that's what Disc was made for. You also don't need CoH because you can use PoH or Nova to heal your group.
Is there another class that can provide a Spirit buff? Short of a Felhunter I can't think of anyone that can. If you think you require Spirit then you can alwasy buy Scrolls. It's sad, but Divine Spirit can be replaced by a Scroll for the most part. As far as Improved Divine Spirit goes, it's a nice buff if you've got plenty of casters. In 5-mans it can benefit your whole group, or only you, depending on the composition. In higher content it would potentially benefit more players, but is also more likely to be replaced by Flametongue totem.
Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, but I did not read through this whole thread yet. Constantius , could you add this - Master's Inscription of the Crag - Spell - World of Warcraft - to the shoulder enchant table? It is Inscription only, but it's really good.
Who we are is but a stepping stone to what we can become.
Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, but I did not read through this whole thread yet. Constantius , could you add this - Master's Inscription of the Crag - Spell - World of Warcraft - to the shoulder enchant table? It is Inscription only, but it's really good.
Hello
I tried to find but i have failed calculations that says healing spell effectiveness.
I plan to raid naxx in 10 ppl group with 2 healers, disc priest and resto druid. So druid will be raid/tank healer and priest tank healer.
I love playing deep holy build but i think that in 10ppl instance(expecialy with druid) disc build is better.
I need calculations for base disc build(tank healer) - healing per mana, healing per second.
Pre naxx gear and naxx gear(200ilvl).
For spells:
peanace
gh
fh
pw: s
pom
renew
Anyone have done those calculations yet?
I wonder how to calculate pom tank healing effectiveness - actually it heals tank only 1 tick then it jumps on raid and there is no guarantee that it will back on tank, so calculations should be done for 1 ticks or i`m wrong?
I have read also stat calculation for disc priest and if i good understood i should colect stats in this priority:
mp5 > crit > heal > int > spirit
So i should ignore spirit items and focus on items:
heal/crit
heal/mp5 or int
heal/hastle
aim : 25% crit 20% hastle buffed and then stack int/mp5/heal
Good way of thinking or i missed something?
If you are purely tank healing, you probably aren't going to use all the spells on that list. In particular, I would expect a Disc healer to have no use for FH - you have Penance instead for fast reaction (or PW:S buttressed with talents), you can't proc IHC the way someone with Holy talents would, and you don't have Empowered Healing to give FH extra kick. PoM would also be situational; it's not that likely to bounce back to the tank (in a raid) and so doesn't give you very good HPS (for your primary heal target), which means that you would basically cast it as a way of helping the raidhealing at a slight cost to your tankhealing. For that reason I would leave it out of any theorycrafting on single-target healing, even if we know that we're going to cast it on occasion.
As for the stat priorities, I think just giving a list of priorities is too simple. A more complex model (the minimum, I think, for making good gear choices) assigns weights to different stats and allows you to calculate a score for a piece of gear. People have put such things together and you can find them if you search.
An even more sophisticated model would recalculate the weights based on your current set of gear and stats, but the nature of Blizzard's itemization is such that a good set of fixed stat weightings is usually sufficient.
I have read also stat calculation for disc priest and if i good understood i should collect stats in this priority:
mp5 > crit > heal > int > spirit
So i should ignore spirit items and focus on items:
heal/crit
heal/mp5 or int
heal/haste
aim : 25% crit 20% haste buffed and then stack int/mp5/heal
Good way of thinking or i missed something?
For the stat allocation, I would say [heal -> mp5 -> crit -> int] and not necessarily ignore items with spirit, but rather use ilvl points for something better like crit or mp5. And the first post recommends that you get 10% haste, unless it was written somewhere that I didn't catch. The first post also says that ~24% crit is almost impossible with a decent spec/makeup. I would say work on crit last, but it is still an important stat.
As for me, I might try experimenting with gemming for Spell/int, but collecting gear with Heal/mp5/crit. If that falls through I will probably gem with Spell/mp5.
Concerning disc-gearing: Do not overestimate mp5, respectively underestimate Spirit. Mp5 is not the main regen stat a disc-priest will gear for, never, get that out of your minds. Our main regen stat is Intellect. Nearly anything we´ve got scales with Int, and it does so in an amazing way. Also, Crit is a regen stat to some extent due to Aegis.
Don´t make the mistake to damn Spirit since we will still be running heavy on Spirit, it´s simply there on our gear. As disc we only have the possibility to go for mp5 gear if for some reason we can´t get the gear with Spirit or if it has the better stats (compared to holy, where you will never want mp5 gear) but that does not mean Spirit is bad, we still get regen from it. Also, you should not forget that you will have a relatively easy time obtaining Spirit gear, while any caster will want to take the mp5 gear.
The main disc stats are definitely Crit and Intellect, with Healpower coming in second (if you´re not tremendously low on +Heal, that is. Which you will hardly be able to be if you pick up caster gear). That´s also what you should be gemming for, I basically don´t see a reason to gem for Mp5 or Spirit, we will not have the need to do so. The disc mana-management simply does not rely on those raw regen stats anymore (at least not heavily, you will have a baseline of regen anyway).
The main disc stats are definitely Crit and Intellect, with Healpower coming in second (if you´re not tremendously low on +Heal, that is. Which you will hardly be able to be if you pick up caster gear). That´s also what you should be gemming for, I basically don´t see a reason to gem for Mp5 or Spirit, we will not have the need to do so. The disc mana-management simply does not rely on those raw regen stats anymore (at least not heavily, you will have a baseline of regen anyway).
It may not be so easy to avoid gemming for spirit, though. Int and Crit both use up yellow sockets, which means if you need to match a blue socket for a meta or socket bonus, your only real options are gemming for [spellpower/int/crit]/spirit or spellpower[not sure if there is int/crit + stam]/stam - or straight spirit/stam. However, I didn't find a convincing reason to ever gem for stamina in my PVE gear in BC, and I don't think I will now in WotLK.
if you need to match a blue socket for a meta or socket bonus, your only real options are gemming for [spellpower/int/crit]/spirit or spellpower[not sure if there is int/crit + stam]/stam - or straight spirit/stam
Getting a green gem like +8int/+8spirit is hardly a catastrophe, though. Or you can get +8int/+3mp5 (Dazzling Forest Emerald), if you're a disc priest and confident that you will hardly ever be OO5SR. I grant you that +16int yellow gem would be a better choice than either, though, and might be worth dumping a socket bonus for...
And why would you pick up a gem with mp5 instead of spirit? Even for disc, the problem with mp5 is the fact that it doesn't scale with kings or talents (enlightenment). Using the mp5 approximation for regen in the first post by constantius, the 8 spirit on Seer's Forest Emerald outperforms the 3 mp5 on Dazzling Forest Emerald (8 * 1.155 * .388) since it effectively provides 3.5 mp5. The disparity will only worsen as gear improves and we push over 1k int raid buffed (which doesn't seem like much of a stretch since it's not difficult to hit 1k int post-T7 content).
More to the point though, we still have blue sockets with socket bonuses that make them worth socketing for, so I don't see gems with spirit in them going completely to the wayside.
No matter what meta you are interested in taking they will always be out performed by [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond]. You get the intellect that would require 1050 intellect to get from [Ember Skyflare Diamond], as well the proc is increased from 300 (I'm not positive on the amount but I've heard from many sources it is higher).
As far as gemming, I see more and more reasons to gem purely for stats. As a holy priest I'll be gemming blues with +spirit, yellows with +intellect and reds with +spell power/+spirit combos. The disc priest in our guild has concluded that he will gem for crit whenever possible. Yellows will be +crit, red slots will be +spell power/+crit combos, and blues will be +spirit/+crit combos.
No matter what meta you are interested in taking they will always be out performed by [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond]. You get the intellect that would require 1050 intellect to get from [Ember Skyflare Diamond], as well the proc is increased from 300 (I'm not positive on the amount but I've heard from many sources it is higher).
No matter what meta you are interested in taking they will always be out performed by [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond]. You get the intellect that would require 1050 intellect to get from [Ember Skyflare Diamond], as well the proc is increased from 300 (I'm not positive on the amount but I've heard from many sources it is higher).
As far as gemming, I see more and more reasons to gem purely for stats. As a holy priest I'll be gemming blues with +spirit, yellows with +intellect and reds with +spell power/+spirit combos. The disc priest in our guild has concluded that he will gem for crit whenever possible. Yellows will be +crit, red slots will be +spell power/+crit combos, and blues will be +spirit/+crit combos.
Actually, it's 1155 intellect where the break-even point of 2% vs 21 (with BoK) occurs. And I broke it last night. Regardless, 600 mana proc >>> 25 spellpower. End of story. Using the IED means you can gem more aggressively toward haste and regen. Using the ESD or BED means you have to gem more toward regen. My method is to always look for the biggest regen options available, take them, then gem in the opposite direction. This is partially the reason I took T7.25 robes: heavy regen option, allowing me to go heavier haste in other slots.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
There has been complaints about lack of utility for priest and I have to somewhat disagree. The spirit buff is more needed than ever with mana regen taking a hit at 80, even though totems negate the spell power buff. And on top of the holy tree is guardian spirit, which I found to be an amazing raid utility this far. When fully familiar with fights and knowing when to use it, I expect it to be a crucial part of strategy. Sure with the cd of 3 minutes it won't be used in every dangerous situation but as both a reactive and proactive tool I found it more impressive than I thought I would. All kinds of tricky transition phases are made more manageable with this tool.
The best part is that it gives priests the stackable raid utility we have asked for. Hopefully it will survive nerfs when guides start claiming '3 holy priests with Guardian Spirit trivialize this encounter'.
I have to agree with Mojofabulous that Holy Concentration (and especially the three points in IHC) are a dubious investment now at the start. Also I found for the first time in my healing career looking at a spec without points in Improved Renew. Three points for a 15% increase in a spell that hasn't scaled well at all seems underwhelming.
Lightwell is nowhere near required, but I have found it very useful. So, when and how to use it?
Positioning is extremely important when using lightwell: it needs to be accessible to people who potentially will use it. You don't expect people to go to lightwell, you bring lightwell to the people. I guess a good goal is to have lightwell close enough that the target can run to it and click it in less than 2 seconds. Throw it where people are standing, or where people move trough often. The lightwell renew breaks very rarely so I don't think that is an issue. Also, you need to get only total of 2 ticks (not CLICKS, but HoT ticks) to make lightwell more efficient to cast than flash heal, and 3 ticks to make it more efficient than greater heal. You can manage that alone if you want to, so I don't think the lightwell mana efficiency is an issue either.
If for nothing else, I use lightwell is as a personal healing device for places where I know I will be taking at least some amount of damage. It's a manafree way to heal myself, and as a bonus there is no "unknown factor" when using lightwell yourself.
Of course you can't force people to use lightwell, but I've found out on heroic and 10-man runs that people will click it if you just make it available often. Just have lightwell up and running all the time, and make sure you place it in an easily clickable place!
Don´t make the mistake to damn Spirit since we will still be running heavy on Spirit, it´s simply there on our gear. As disc we only have the possibility to go for mp5 gear if for some reason we can´t get the gear with Spirit or if it has the better stats (compared to holy, where you will never want mp5 gear) but that does not mean Spirit is bad, we still get regen from it. Also, you should not forget that you will have a relatively easy time obtaining Spirit gear, while any caster will want to take the mp5 gear.
Yea, trying to ignore Spirit will be very hard for disc/holy priest not because of it useless or effectiveness but rather the current gear itemization. If you look, for example, at chests 200ilvl and compare their stats you will not find a good one without Spirit(only robes for pure dps with hit):
TC7 gear for both shadow and holy spec has Spirit
Crafted epics from tailoring has Spirit or hit
Robes from Naxx 10men has Spirit
So we will stuck with it regardless of our wishes and the only choice we will able to make is about gems.
The code tag at the very bottom is botched. Heal Coefficients would be nice too.
Relative stat values (equalities) would be a great resource, but that would be heavily influenced by overall gear level and current stats to decide what's best on an individual basis.
Here's an interesting note that Wreath and I (from Fusion) made last night. With ~ 7 ilvl 200+ items each, several ilvl 226, we both broke 21,000 mana raid-buffed. At that level, with usual raid buffs (Mana Spring + Tide, Replenishment, and the usual passive stuff -- BoK, BoW, Imp GotW, DS, AI), we have enough mana now. We're both running over 20% crit with our moonkin in the raid ... and we're missing our haste.
So roughly a week into the expansion, we're starting to use haste again. Obviously we can't stack it as aggressively as we did in TBC, but with WoA, we don't need to. We're both looking at keeping our mana pools constant, our crit climbing slightly from 20%, and pushing haste up to 15% pre-buffs (WoA putting us up to 20%).
So if you're clocking along, just starting Naxx.10, keep in mind that while the spirit+crit items are great, you don't want those for every slot. There is such a thing as too much crit, when balanced with respect to throughput concerns.
I'm posting this because I was genuinely surprised. In my experiences on Beta, I never got the .25 pieces in this much density, so I hadn't experienced the possibility of stacking haste again. Now that I have, I'm very glad. Basically, Blizz hit the regen nerfs on the nose when considering .25 gear. If you have 22k mana, Replenishment is enough mana regen that the spirit nerf doesn't matter as much.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein