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Old 11/05/08, 11:25 AM   #136
dukes
Bald Bull
 
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Shocktar View Post
Really? I've yet to experience this. Granted, levelling grants you more spirit, which, with Spiritual Healing, would bolster the spell's power, but I've seen absolutely no reason to believe that simply levelling up makes spells more powerful. Do you have proof that this is the case?
Like I said, it's very small. I remember noticing it on my mage, where Fireball gained 1 damage every level, or something similar. It certainly applies to Demoralising Roar for Druids, which gains 1 AP reduction per level up to the next rank (which is why people were confused as to the Druid one being 3 AP lower than the Warrior one, while the Druid one is trainable at 77 and the Warrior one is trainable at 80, or something like that).

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Old 11/05/08, 12:10 PM   #137
Hegen
In gear/DCT lock pin
 
Human Priest
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by Tashia View Post
So you need s**t load of bad luck to miss all 4 attacks..
It never happened to me and I tanked more than 6-7 months the most I missed 2 times in a row but that was not enough for the dps to overaggro.
So far I haven't seen 4 misses in a row, but I have seen bosses look at me very shortly after pull with our druid tank tanking without being misdirected. In these cases, the WWS showed 3 misses in sequence, or with one white hit in between. I have seen this specifically with Nalorakk and Halazzi in Zul'Aman, both of which - can - hit very hard, requiring early and heavy healing.

To get back to the point: though this is a valid point that can be made (and is made by some tanks), preshielding is still better than not doing it. Maybe it's possible to construct a case where preshielding actually hurts, but I'm positively sure this will really be a rare case and will have to involve tanks with low amounts of hit and expertise.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson
The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.

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Old 11/06/08, 8:39 AM   #138
metapseudo
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Terenas (EU)
I have tried to get stats values for the armor and weapons at level 80. For easiness I have calculated all items as being ilvl=200 and all items being purple.

Max level items available in armory has been used as base for the calculation. I have copied their stats into a spreadsheet, calculated its ilvl using wowwiki formulas to find if the formula gets the armory ilvl correctly. After that I have changed all stats proportionally to get the item to ilvl 200. I have calculated value of sockets for those items by applying proper color epic gems into it. So it is to be expected, that for items with sockets, values of stats on those items will be smaller then those presented here.
Spell power value of the one handed mace is in row marked DPS->Spell as main portion of its power comes from DPS sacrifice. Formulas can be found on wiki as well.

Coefficients needed for all selected items to get them to ilvl 200 were in range from 1.25 to 1.35. I interpret that as 30% increase of stats for ilvl 200 as compared to ilvl 146-164. It can in my opinion serve as yet another rule of thumb for players with BT/SWP gear - their stats should be about 30% higher at level 80 after 10 men Naxx.

All values are raw values, that is before the modification by talent coefficients.

I realize that is simplification, but it can give us an idea of the gained stats for the calculation purposes and it is not some theoretical value, but the one derived from items designed by Blizzard.
	Sta	Spi	Int	SPwr	Haste	Mp5
	0.67	1	1	0.86	0.9	2.5
Head	51	66	75	88		
Chest	47	39	45	93	52	21
Legs	65	43	55	92		23
Shoulder	42	38	33	67	42	11
Hands	43	56	39	74	0	0
Waist	28	44	38	66	11	18
Feet	35	38	46	73	25	10
Wrist	25	26	28	63	21	6
Neck	35	0	25	54	32	13
Back	31	0	33	59	40	0
Finger1	41	42	29	51	0	0
Finger2	41	42	29	51	0	0
Off-hand	45	0	27	50	30	12
Ranged	11	24	0	38	11	0
1H Wpn	24	13	32	6	29	11
DPS->Spell			374		

Total	562	471	532	926	292	127
Here is the wiki link Item level - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Last edited by metapseudo : 11/06/08 at 9:04 AM.

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Old 11/06/08, 10:52 AM   #139
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
Shielding tanks should not create any rage problems in 3.0. I have healed heroics where incoming damage was so low I healed almost exclusively with shield, and still the dps were not tearing aggro off the tank, this was without Replenish or Blessing of Sanctuary, on small and large pulls. From everything I've seen between live and beta, threat is just not a thing to worry about right now.

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Old 11/06/08, 11:14 AM   #140
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by metapseudo View Post
I have tried to get stats values for the armor and weapons at level 80. For easiness I have calculated all items as being ilvl=200 and all items being purple.

I realize that is simplification, but it can give us an idea of the gained stats for the calculation purposes and it is not some theoretical value, but the one derived from items designed by Blizzard.
	Sta	Spi	Int	SPwr	Haste	Mp5
Finger1	41	42	29	51	0	0
Your totals looked a lot lower than the ones I had been using, which I got from adding up values from items actually found so far on the beta, so I took a look over the approximations you had given here to find one with an easy comparison. Compare to Signet of Hopeful Light from the wowhead Wrath site (no item link because they go to the wowhead main site where the item does not exist). The signet has:

	Sta	Int	Haste	SPwr
Finger1	42	50	36	58
I reordered the stats to show the comparison, but haste rating, int and spirit have the same item point cost, so the comparison works. Your approximation of items stats does not line up with actual items that have dropped, which have consistently higher stats. I don't think WoWWiki's formula is really that reliable. The totals you listed are closer to the totals for blue level 200 items than purple ones.

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Old 11/07/08, 10:35 AM   #141
Bekt
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Priest
 
Twisting Nether
I'm sure most of you have heard that Blizzard is considering a 6 second CD to CoH (if not, source).

I don't have experience raiding at 80 in Beta, and was wondering what some of your opinions were on this matter. Do we have the tools to deal with the raid damage coming in without spamming CoH? I imagine Chain Heal will be able to fill in most of the gap left, and for the rest we'd be able to Renew/Flash Heal/PoM/PW:S, but like I said I'm not aware of how the fights at 80 work.

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Old 11/07/08, 11:01 AM   #142
Lambi
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Priest
 
Talnivarr (EU)
I agree with putting a cooldown on both CoH and WG, 6 seconds is however very very hefty and will make stacking an issue. 3-4 seconds is more realistic or remove the smart targetting and keep it off cd.

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Old 11/07/08, 11:08 AM   #143
Hegen
In gear/DCT lock pin
 
Human Priest
 
Alleria (EU)
In my opinion, it doesn't make much sense discussing CoH cooldown in respect to beta content a 80, because Blizzard doesn't plan to change CoH and Wild Growth in isolation.

If you watch the discussion (summary of blue answers here: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Examination on CoH's overuse), it becomes clear that an introduction of a cooldown would also very probably be accompanied by a reduction of raid damage and an increase in single target damage, including changing encounters and modifying tank equipment.

The plan clearly seems to be to prevent CoH and Wild Growth spam while still enabling holy priest and druids to perform a full raid healing role.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Clarkson
The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.

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Old 11/07/08, 6:56 PM   #144
Xiv
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Priest
 
<Ave>
Magtheridon (EU)
Maybe you could clarify how PoM exactly works when stacked (2+ mendings).

Sometimes you can overwrite a mending from someone else, sometimes you cannot and the other priest can't overwrite yours, I suspect its something in the talents but don't really have a clue.

Additionally how does it work when 2 mendings would potentially jump to the same target?

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Old 11/08/08, 12:57 PM   #145
constantius
Soda Popinski
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by dukes View Post
Like I said, it's very small. I remember noticing it on my mage, where Fireball gained 1 damage every level, or something similar. It certainly applies to Demoralising Roar for Druids, which gains 1 AP reduction per level up to the next rank (which is why people were confused as to the Druid one being 3 AP lower than the Warrior one, while the Druid one is trainable at 77 and the Warrior one is trainable at 80, or something like that).
Dukes is absolutely right. Every spell you learn, whether damage or healing, increases very slightly as you level, before you get the next rank.

So, for example, GH:7, learned at 68, and having a base value as indicated by WoWhead, actually heals for ~ 15 more at level 70, because you continue to gain 'power' in it as you level. Not much, clearly, but some. You can see this exhibited in the Beta thread where a couple of times I corrected people's base healing amounts with actual in-game level-80 amounts which were not the same.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

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Old 11/10/08, 11:35 AM   #146
Zomgdie
Von Kaiser
 
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Zomgdie
Undead Priest
 
Frostmourne
In regards to the debate between SOL and Lolwell/HP. Do either of you have any hard numbers yet or is it all still specualtion? I can easily see the benfits to both, but pure specuation and assuming 20 procs over a 200 sec fight is not a very convincing argument. Especially considering KJ is far more than 200 secs even post nerf. I havent timed it but I'd estimate its about double that. Using that fight as an example though I can see either being incredibly useful. Being able to toss a flash on the move could easily save lives. That being said tossing down a lightwell under the bubble right as everyone collapses could help mitigate that one jerk spreading fire and help healing up the damage taken from the aoe. Honeslty I think it comes down to the proc rate. Sure there will be times it is wasted, BUT the one time it saves your own life or someone elses it makes up for the 5 previous uses that were over healing/missed. The CD on Lightwell still only makes it situationally useful IMO. 24 free flash heals throughout KJ is potentially saving your raid. Dropping the lightwell will buy you a little oo5sr, but I think I've Oomed on that fight once and it was terrible luck with the mana burn and getting no regen breaths from the dragons.

In our particular case we'll probly have one of us spec'd each way. With me paying attn to Ora and other officer responsibilities mid fight I'll probly take the Lightwell/HP approach as its more "fire and forget" if you will and let Ikasha deal with micro managing procs. Regardless as soon as someones able to get some comparative wws parses I'd be interested in seeing them. And as others have said thanks Nidiba for the awesome job.

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Old 11/10/08, 12:42 PM   #147
Woozle
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Zomgdie View Post
In regards to the debate between SOL and Lolwell/HP. Do either of you have any hard numbers yet or is it all still specualtion? I can easily see the benfits to both, but pure specuation and assuming 20 procs over a 200 sec fight is not a very convincing argument. Especially considering KJ is far more than 200 secs even post nerf. I havent timed it but I'd estimate its about double that. Using that fight as an example though I can see either being incredibly useful. .... (rehash what's already been stated)
To be honest, I'm not sure exactly sure what hard data you're looking for that would convince you either way. SOL is tied to your crit rate. That means that its effectiveness is tied not only to the particulars of your spec, but also to the type of fight you are in and the types of spells you cast. Right now, I almost always get a SOL proc whenever I cast COH, whereas when I'm chain casting gheal, its a less frequent occurrence. Further, the number of talent points you have at 80 makes it very easy to pick up both lightwell and SOL without sacrificing too much. The tradeoff is more throughput on your base spells, for situational tools that increase your mana efficiency and/or allow you to do multiple things at once. Even if you could model it, it seems to me to come down to a personal choice and playstyle issue.

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Old 11/10/08, 4:47 PM   #148
metapseudo
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Terenas (EU)
Originally Posted by Woozle View Post
... I almost always get a SOL proc whenever I cast COH, whereas when I'm chain casting gheal, its a less frequent occurrence.
I need an explanation on this please. Tooltip says that chance for getting SoL is based on crit chance of FH, GH and BH.

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Old 11/10/08, 5:01 PM   #149
Xaphania
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Azjol-Nerub
Originally Posted by metapseudo View Post
I need an explanation on this please. Tooltip says that chance for getting SoL is based on crit chance of FH, GH and BH.
Surge of Light can proc off any spell crit, damage or healing. It doesn't matter what spell you're using, as long as it can crit.

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Old 11/10/08, 5:27 PM   #150
typobox
Don Flamenco
 
Human Priest
 
Alexstrasza
It's Holy Concentration that's limited to FH/GH/BH.

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