WotLK Healing Compendium v3.0 [theorycraft, specs, etc] - Page 100

Tashia · 01/26/09, 8:26 AM

Originally Posted by Plitschplatsch

Constantius, i always wondered where the 12% haste comes from? Is that a personal preference or is there an advantage with game mechanics (gheal as fast boss swing timer or something like that?) behind it?

I assume its 12% from gear + 3% from ret aura or boomkin aura and +5% from totem = 20%

For grater heal its:

2.5s..........100%
Xs.............20%

X=(20x2.5)/100
X=0.5s

So your grater heal becomes a 2 sec cast.

Sarjin · 01/26/09, 9:18 AM

Originally Posted by christos0b

Am i the only one one (as holy) that finds the 4/4 heroes-valorous set a bit useless ?
I'm thinking of dumping my gloves or my pants (valorous) for haste equivalents shall i ?

Basically the same amount of conclusion I have come to. For now, the only fight I use GHeal a truly significant amount of times is Patchwerk (We intend to do Sarth+3D this week, so can't comment on that yet). I have no mana problems there to begin with (some truly horrendous RNG luck aside), and even if I did I have a number of Heroes pieces to swap in (I have Valorous Legs/Shoulders and remainder from 10 man). As it is, there is no other fight I have done so far where the GHeal bonus feels meaningful enough to me to justify dropping superior stats for it. In all honesty right now I can't really claim to need the extra stats either for the current content, but at least they are typically more useful than the set bonus. I guess we will see the real value when more becomes known about Ulduar design and what Blizzard intends to do with us in 3.1.

Regarding the two piece bonus, I definitely do intend on keeping that one. Admittedly we dont' always get PoM to jump the full six times; however at the moment the more challenging fights in terms of healing have plenty of AoE damage which makes the full number of jumps very possible. (Vortex being a guarantee of course) As it is I am still debating which pieces to keep however. The [Valorous Gloves of Faith] are a given in the ideal combination for me without any clear upgrade available (Now I just need some luck with the drops, Conqueror being both the most rare and competitive token in our guild). Having picked up [Leggings of Mortal Arrogance] and [The Sanctum's Flowing Vestments] already, both of which are fairly consensus picks for best in slot, that leaves the head and shoulder slot for the second piece. At the moment I feel somewhat inclined to go with the shoulders as I already have those (my headpiece is still 10 man). Both are essentially 2nd best in slot from what I can see, behind the iLvl 226 Malygos loot.

l337n00b · 01/26/09, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by Promethia

2. With rapture fairly functional, one could use rapture returns to estimate absorbed damage. This could be technically challenging because you'd probably need to pair up flash heals, penances, and greater heals with their rapture returns so that you can then reverse engineer their maximum mana and then use that to estimate absorbed damage when you get rapture returns that are not from heals. I'm not sure how difficult that would be.

There is an extra complication in this. It looked to me like rapture, like a HoT, does not report the mana gain if you are already at full mana. When rapture was busted on shields and I was never looking for the mana gain from it, I didn't notice, and obviously this is rarely relevant for direct heals since you just spent the mana. It did come up with shields a couple of times in my testing, though. Probably a minicule factor on raids since you don't spend all your time with a 100% mana bar.

Mercurylight · 01/26/09, 12:10 PM

i would have to say with the addition of patch 3.0.8 that haste to a priest is much more needed the fact that we cant just spam coh anymore makes it much more needed. And being able to drop some spirit by getting the h maly robes over t7 val robes for some haste and spell power is very nice. On my priest i have far to much mana regain i actually have to try very hard to make myself go oom on any boss fight with my shadow fiend arcane torent and hymn also a pot if i ever do need one taking some more haste is very nice and will help out with many of your other healing spells

Originally Posted by Sarjin

Regarding the two piece bonus, I definitely do intend on keeping that one. Admittedly we dont' always get PoM to jump the full six times; however at the moment the more challenging fights in terms of healing have plenty of AoE damage which makes the full number of jumps very possible. (Vortex being a guarantee of course)

IMO PoM on the vortex phase seems a little pointless everytime i cast it everyone is moving so fast that it doesnt have time to catch up to its intened target and trust me this is true i have checked it when me and a few guildies raided IF and stormwind. On that tram its fast enough to the point where PoM just floats next to you and doesnt hit your target

Richelieu · 01/26/09, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Lazare

Not exactly. Holy and Disc get the same amount of spirit from the neck.

Don't forget that Holy gets Spirit of Redemption, which increases Spirit by 5%.

Akarai · 01/26/09, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mercurylight

IMO PoM on the vortex phase seems a little pointless everytime i cast it everyone is moving so fast that it doesnt have time to catch up to its intened target and trust me this is true i have checked it when me and a few guildies raided IF and stormwind. On that tram its fast enough to the point where PoM just floats next to you and doesnt hit your target

I have never noticed a problem on the vortex with PoM's. In fact, I usually get one or two Surge of Light procs to go with it. Even if it only hits two times, it is still worth casting.

constantius · 01/26/09, 1:28 PM

I think you're imagining things re: PoM and Vortex. I watch mine very carefully, and it uses up all the charges, and then I refresh it on a fresh target. I get 1-2 SoL procs per Vortex from it as well, so it's definitely going off.

Here's a parse of a random Malygos attempt from the other night, trimmed to just include start->end of the only Vortex phase:

Wow Web Stats

As you can see, PoM proc'd 7x, along with 10 Renew ticks and my oh-so-OP Devouring Plague self-healing.

I can't be bothered to dredge the file for the PW:S absorbs: suffice it to say there were 5 of them, fully absorbed (2 pre-Vortex, and 3 during).

christos0b · 01/26/09, 1:29 PM

So i dont really need the 4/4 (totally imo) :
I was thinking of swapping my [Valorous Gloves of Faith] for [Gloves of Token Respect]

and my [Valorous Leggings of Faith] for [Leggings of Mortal Arrogance]

while keeping my 2/2 set with the Valorous helmet / shoulders.

The alrtenative is swapping either my Helmet + Pants (but i dont really wanna loose all that haste) or my shoulders + pants (but i like the look of my valorous shoulders

).

Any ideas / suggestions / objections ?

- I'm close to getting my current target gear , need the Os robes and the arcanic tramplers atm(they both are not dropping!) so keep in mind that my gear setup is almost like the on "Constantius" proposed in his theory craft with some changes in a couple of items / gems.

Lilcure · 01/26/09, 2:32 PM

Yeah I know my PoM gets several bounces on Malygos Vortex, I watch it bounce around Grid for the entire time, like the previous poster, getting 4-5 shield out and using PoM to it's max has become the way to go for Vortex healing with CoH bugged in it's present state.

l337n00b · 01/26/09, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Abygail

Vampiric Touch 0.0% (per tick)

This appears to be a typo. For those who do not know, Vampiric Touch is 40% per tick, or 200% over the entire duration.

Max Rebo · 01/26/09, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by constantius

GC said that "that part of the tree" (by which I assume he meant the entire 5th tier, basically) would look very different. Given that IDS is bloody useless, I'm hoping they roll the basic effect into DS, make it a single point talent, drop it to tier 3 to make the 5th point there (along with 3/3 Meditation and 1/1 Inner Focus), and then put something genuinely new into 21-25.

After all, the 21-25 talents are supposed to be interesting enough to consider losing your 51-pointer. GS is good enough that they need to come up with something interesting to make us have a decision to make, instead of the default "choose GS, continue".

Those suggestions sound good. It definitely appears Blizzard will do *something* nice with IDS.
At the moment, my priest is still leveling (and uses IDS). If it were to remain the same, then I would end up dropping it at some point, but let's hope it will be changed to something like the all-in-one talent mentioned in the above quote.

Unless I missed it, here's the Blue info that mentioned the potential changes:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC: Direct Priest Questions ONLY

EDIT: One or two others mentioned it, but couldn't remember the source.

Abygail · 01/26/09, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by l337n00b

This appears to be a typo. For those who do not know, Vampiric Touch is 40% per tick, or 200% over the entire duration.

Thanks for catching that Leet

Incoherence · 01/26/09, 9:33 PM

Originally Posted by Richelieu

Don't forget that Holy gets Spirit of Redemption, which increases Spirit by 5%.

And Discipline gets Enlightenment, which is the same 5%, thus why the two specs gain the same amount of raw spirit from any given item. (The regen gain won't be the same, of course, but Lazare talks about that in the part of the post you cut out.)

I would, however, disagree with him that both specs "love" mp5. Both specs equally dislike it: holy because it's not spirit, and discipline because they generally don't need regen from gear (although given the choice, 1 mp5 is equal to or possibly slightly better than the same item-worth of spirit). But in a world where all of your items are going to have stamina, intellect, spell power, and two of {hit, crit, haste, spirit, mp5}, you don't always have the option of forgoing regen on gear entirely.

Promethia · 01/27/09, 4:03 AM

Originally Posted by l337n00b

There is an extra complication in this. It looked to me like rapture, like a HoT, does not report the mana gain if you are already at full mana. When rapture was busted on shields and I was never looking for the mana gain from it, I didn't notice, and obviously this is rarely relevant for direct heals since you just spent the mana. It did come up with shields a couple of times in my testing, though. Probably a minicule factor on raids since you don't spend all your time with a 100% mana bar.

Yeah, any method using rapture returns is only going to be able to provide a "quick and dirty" estimate of absorbed damage. It won't be precisely correct. There is also still a bug where rapture returns on absorbs that break through a shield are too high (based on the amount absorbed + the breakthrough damage). In addition, it is not trivial to estimate a priest's maximum mana, which can definitely change throughout the course of a combat log.

In spite of those problems, I believe using rapture returns to estimate absorbed damage is more precise than using data from crit heals to estimate DA shield absorbs or using the PW:Shield glyph to estimate PW:Shield absorbed damage. Even if we look at tons of data and measure how often shields expire and how much on average they absorb, applying those averages to predict absorbed damage for an individual priest in an individual encounter is a stretch. You'd have to assume both the priest and the encounter is "average" ... whatever that means.

Unfortunately, although it's possible to go through and get a pretty accurate tally of absorbed damage, right now that's so time consuming that it's only really been done for research purposes -- it's not very feasible for most practical purposes.

Samangel · 01/27/09, 9:39 AM

Originally Posted by sadisticmgt

On my priest, I actually try to time my gheal or fheal so that I do a tiny bit of overhealing. Since I am speced into Serendipity this helps me with my mana, while effectively healing the tank or injured dps. In this respect I see absolutely no problem with overhealing a target.

Since the COH nerf, getting mana back should no longer be a concern as regen is plentiful with all the known holy talents. If you want to heal more conservatively, going after intel and crit with COH still specced into your build, one of those five heals will proc SOL and IHC almost every time you hit COH.

Since the COH nerf, I have respecced out of Serendipity and deeper into Disc to obtain Meditation, Mental Agility, Mental Strength and Focussed Power and built my base mana pool to almost 20k, dropped 200 spirit in gear changes in favour of intel and crit to ensure higher procs for SOL and IHC.

In both H OS and H MALYGOS, my mana never falls below 70% and I use COH every time its off cd thanks to cooldown watch for the procs. This is with constant healing rotations.

Respeccing and seeking stats that support a greater rate of mana free heals taking you OO5SR is definitely worth considering if you are having to overheal to "try" to get mana back.