Elitist Jerks WotLK Healing Compendium v3.0 [theorycraft, specs, etc]

11/10/08, 7:19 PM   #151
Valoran
Piston Honda

Human Rogue

 Originally Posted by metapseudo I need an explanation on this please. Tooltip says that chance for getting SoL is based on crit chance of FH, GH and BH.
Surge of Light

Thus spells which hit more than one target (and thus have a higher chance of getting a single crit) have a higher chance of proccing SoL.

fake edit: waaaay too slow.

11/11/08, 5:52 AM   #152
Promethia
Piston Honda

Blood Elf Priest

Kilrogg
 Originally Posted by constantius XI b. Value of Intellect and Spirit One of the big questions many priests ask is "how much spirit / intellect should I have", with the secondary question "where is the point at which it makes sense to stop stacking one and start stacking the other". ... Now, the conversion numbers are as follows:1% crit = 166.67 intellect 1 intellect = 0.0125 Mp5 (Replenishment) 1 intellect = 0.208 Mp5 (6 minute fight, mana pool size) 1 intellect = 0.083 Mp5 (6 minute fight, shadowfiend) 1 intellect = 0.114 Mp5 (Holy, 6 minute fight, IHC procs from crit, split 50/50 Flash and GHeal) 1 intellect = 0.017 Mp5 (Disc, 6 minute fight, Divine Aegis absorb crits procing Rapture) 1 intellect = 0.194 Mp5 (Meditation, 1000 spirit assumed, 80% I5SR) 1 spirit = 0.388 Mp5 (Meditation, 1000 intellect assumed, 80% I5SR) 1 spirit = 0.25 spellpower (Holy, Spiritual Guidance) ... Disc Crit Every percent to crit grants a 30% of heal shield through Divine Aegis. 2.5% of maximum mana is granted back to the healer as mana return, assuming full absorption. Let's go "best case" and assume that all shields are used fully (full absorption), so every single time you crit, you get back 2.5% of your maximum mana. Disc is going to have higher number of total casts than Holy due to Penance, so let's ballpark it at 40 casts per minute, i.e. 40 chances to crit and proc a Divine Aegis shield which is then absorbed and returns mana. Theorycrafting has found that mana return from Rapture is ~ [code] 0.01035*max mana/basemana*amount healed [/lcode] which I am going to assume, for the moment, applies to the absorption amount as well. In that case, with base mana being ~ 3875, and 20k max mana, a 1500-point Divine Aegis shield would restore 84 mana. You will get (from 1% crit) 2.4 of these shields per fight, or 2.8 Mp5. Now, divide this again by 167, and get 0.017 Mp5 per point of intellect.
Nice work. A few comments on the Intellect versus Spirit issue:

1. I think there's a clerical error in the Mp5 from replenishment, which should be .0125 times the 15 mana you get from 1 point of intellect, i.e. 0.1875 instead of 0.0125

2. There is a fairly technical post on the mathematics of "how much spirit / intellect should I have" here. A lot depends on the amount of Mp5 you assume you'll actually realize in practice from each point of int. However, based on that previous discussion, a crude estimate of the relative value of intellect relative to spirit would be:

$\displaystyle{\frac{Spirit}{2\cdot Int} + \frac{9}{4\cdot\sqrt{Int}}\quad\text{for holy priests}}$

$\displaystyle{\frac{Spirit}{2\cdot Int} + \frac{9}{2\cdot\sqrt{Int}}\quad\text{for discipline priests}}$

If the value you get is 1.0, intellect and spirit are equally valuable to your mana regeneration. If the value is 1.5, then intellect is 1.5 times more valuable than spirit. If it's 0.5, then intellect is half as valuable as spirit, etc.

3. The rapture returns from divine aegis per point of intellect at level 80 have been worked out in another post as:

$\displaystyle{6.02835 \times 10^{-6}\cdot\left(\frac{0.00006\cdot Mana_{max} + 18.975\cdot crit}{1 + 0.5\cdot crit}\right)\cdot HPS_{raw}}$

Assuming 20k-30k mana, 20-30% crit rate, and 3K-5K raw HPS (including overheal, but only counting crittable heals), a fairly conservative estimate would be 0.1 Mp5 per point of intellect.

11/11/08, 6:13 AM   #153
Viv
Von Kaiser

Twisting Nether (EU)
 Originally Posted by Zomgdie That being said tossing down a lightwell under the bubble right as everyone collapses could help mitigate that one jerk spreading fire and help healing up the damage taken from the aoe.
Have you tried clicking on a lolwell when there's 25 people standing on top of it though?

As it stands, lightwell is a solution with no suitable problem.
- You can't be in a hurry: not only do you need to have some time to move to it and click on it, it also takes time to heal you up.
- Everyone is always in a hurry: either trying to dps/tank/heal as hard as they can, or needing That Fat Heal Right Now Or Else.
- If people are spread out, it's unusable: too far to run for the average raid member.
- If people are clumped up, it's unusable: you can't click it as it's neatly embedded inside a tauren derriere.

If something is unusable in practice, its theoretical output is immaterial.

In my dream world, lightwell would be implemented like a "healing void zone" which only a blind man could miss - healing the lowest-health targets that step into it (thus requiring no clicking), up to a maximum of X healed total.
That sort of implementation would definitely make it very useful for the scenario you describe, and X being high enough could justify the spell having as long a cooldown as it does.

 11/11/08, 6:20 AM #154 dukes Bald Bull     Dukes Tauren Druid   No WoW Account (EU) If you put a lightwell down in the right place, there should be no issue clicking it (it has a range - it's not like you need to stand on top of it to click it). The bubble on KJ is exactly the kind of situation its great for - a lot of people who are taking damage / are about to take damage, in one place, with no reason not to change target to click it. If people use it properly, it saves a hell of a lot of healing. It's like quite a lot of talents now - situational, but incredibly useful in that situation. I've been 9-10 manning Magtheridon recently on my priest with some friends, and using it for the MT to use during the end of earthquake/before blast nova/etc, and for an offtank to use during the start of the fight, it is very useful as an extra heal while others are unavailable/out of range/etc. Making people aware that it's there to be used is one of the biggest challenges, but once you do it can easily save lives. I can see it being of more use in 10 mans when you only have 1-2 "full" healers, but you should still get some use out of it in 25's (enough to justify the point at least).
 11/11/08, 9:21 AM #155 Pitbuller King Hippo   Pitbuller Tauren Shaman   Wildhammer (EU) 2. 1 intellect = 0.0125 Mp5 (Replenishment) This would be true if intellect give 1mana. Right value without kings is: 15 * 0.0025 * 5 = 0.1875mp5. Slow, slower, shaman weapon.
11/11/08, 11:05 AM   #156
Zomgdie
Von Kaiser

Zomgdie

Frostmourne
 Originally Posted by Viv Have you tried clicking on a lolwell when there's 25 people standing on top of it though? If something is unusable in practice, its theoretical output is immaterial. In my dream world, lightwell would be implemented like a "healing void zone" which only a blind man could miss - healing the lowest-health targets that step into it (thus requiring no clicking), up to a maximum of X healed total. That sort of implementation would definitely make it very useful for the scenario you describe, and X being high enough could justify the spell having as long a cooldown as it does.
It's VERY situational I'm aware. But i wouldnt call it unusable. In fact I think I may try it tonight. Placement will be an issue im sure. BUT if it saves even one life then it was worth the cast time/mana.

Ahhhhh to be in a perfect world. I think blizzard has made it abundantly clear by now that they intend lightwell to be a mid level rarely useful talent. I highly doubt that will change anytime in the near future. That being said I can still think of decent uses for it. Toss one right behind the mellee, or somewhere close to the warlocks so they can LT without healers having to watch/worry about them. Again Limited uses, BUT I think its a viable and useful alternative if you can use it intelligently.

 11/11/08, 1:17 PM #157 Cunegonde Glass Joe   Revka Undead Priest   Eredar The problem with a mid level, rarely useful talent is the sacrifice you make to have it. Especially at level 70 with the 3.0 patch out, there are so many other talents you can have that passively buff all spells. IHC, Serendipity, test of faith, guardian spirit and divine providence are all very awesome options that are useful in almost all situations. Just one point in any of these talents will impact your overall effect everywhere. As for points spent earlier in the tree, Holy reach can be worth putting a point in to get more out of a CoH cast and a single point in surge of light seems to give me an instant flash of light every time i need one. Paired with serendipity, that's a viable and efficient talent use. Last edited by Cunegonde : 11/11/08 at 1:46 PM.
 11/11/08, 1:21 PM #158 Viv Von Kaiser   Viv Undead Priest   Twisting Nether (EU) Fair points dukes/Zomgdie. Other examples of the well being useful could be plonking it down next to your warlocks on a Kaz'Rogal-like drain fight, or wherever your Brutallus's Burn victims stand. Loatheb sounds rather like a job for the lolwell too. I do however think that at the very least its cooldown needs to be around 2 minute mark in order for it to be of tactical, rather than just novelty, value. And I still do have a dream
11/11/08, 1:31 PM   #159
Isin
Piston Honda

Borean Tundra
 Originally Posted by Zomgdie BUT if it saves even one life then it was worth the cast time/mana.
I know you mean this in like the heuristic touchy-feely "I'm a giver-of-life" way, but it's simply not true. If lightwell is somehow saving this one person, you're probably better off using that cast time to drop a renew on him instead. That way he could be actually doing his job in the raid rather than clicking an object to save his life. Beyond that, due to the breaking nature, if a lightwell renew is going to be saving his life, it is probably going to be broken by the damage and that guy is dead anyway and it's your fault.

I have been a dpser in raids and I will click on the lightwell if I need it (and as my dpser is a warlock it is fantastic), but if we're to be completely honest, non-warlock dpsers find it to be a complete pain in the ass, and are mostly doing it because dpsers live in constant fear of getting on some kind of healer blacklist if they offend you.

The lightwell debate is difficult because its usage is impossible to model from raid to raid and fight to fight. However, I can speak for myself as a healer and say that I'm uncomfortable delegating my healing role onto other people, and maybe i'm a control freak but I like to be the one actively making sure that my healing assignments get healed.

11/11/08, 1:42 PM   #160
Zomgdie
Von Kaiser

Zomgdie

Frostmourne
 Originally Posted by Isin However, I can speak for myself as a healer and say that I'm uncomfortable delegating my healing role onto other people, and maybe i'm a control freak but I like to be the one actively making sure that my healing assignments get healed.
I agree with that 100%. BUT I wasnt saying it should be used as a primary means of keeping people alive. Its definatly a supplemental asset and should be used as such. This is why said used intelligently. Expecting dps to think that they may be partially responsible for keeping themselves alive is completly unreasonable. If they didnt pop a health stone or pot I tell them to stop complaining about heals. We try to use an attitude of personal responsibility. Obviously its the healers responsibility to keep people alive. However at the level of content and progression most of us aim for, if your DPS cant make an attempt to keep themselves alive that too is also a problem. Train them to use the shiny lightwell :P
.

 11/11/08, 2:05 PM #161 Cunegonde Glass Joe   Revka Undead Priest   Eredar Although I completely agree with Isen about being nervous in regards to delegating your role as a healer to the raid group, things like health stones, health potions, and bandages are all ways the raid group can self heal. They allow us to focus on primary targets, and save our GCDs for more important purposes. Health stones used during encapsulate or while burning on KJ greatly improve survival rate due to reaction speed alone. Every healer, at some point has to decide between two dying targets. Therefor self healing can be a vital part of the game. If, at the end of a raid, SWS has lightwell doing a better job than another point could have, then it becomes usable. It's the sheer lack of use and rarity of viability that makes it something I always pass on.
 11/11/08, 7:02 PM #162 Thorongil Piston Honda     Idril Human Priest   Alexstrasza (EU) On a sidenote: The lightwell discussion has already been elaborated extensively in the Priest WotlK Preview Thread, coming up with the same discussion right here is quite pointless when a simple thread search provides the same results.
 11/11/08, 10:00 PM #163 DivineLight Glass Joe   Blinkstrike Human Rogue   Magtheridon i was wondering by chance would u have a spreadsheet for holy/discipline priests?
 11/12/08, 1:47 AM #164 Schieni Glass Joe   Mirakulus Dwarf Priest   Nozdormu (EU) Are these stat weights good ones: Holy Priest Crit 0.0997 Haste 0.4500 Int (crit) 0.0361 Int (mana) 0.2295 Int (regen) 0.2133 Int (replen) 0.1753 Int (sf) 0.0825 Spellpower 0.6000 Spirit (regen) 0.3879 Spirit (spellpower) 0.5400 And in summary: Deep Holy Priest Stat Weights: Spellpower: 0.60 Spirit: 0.54 Intellect: 0.74 Crit: 0.10 Haste: 0.45 MP5: 1.00 You can find details at the source: Weighing Priest Healing Stats A Dwarf Priest What would you change? And why? Last edited by Schieni : 11/12/08 at 4:18 AM.
11/12/08, 5:12 AM   #165
Crow
Von Kaiser

Blood Elf Priest

Outland (EU)
 Originally Posted by Thorongil On a sidenote: The lightwell discussion has already been elaborated extensively in the Priest WotlK Preview Thread, coming up with the same discussion right here is quite pointless when a simple thread search provides the same results.
Please make Thorongil a mod on this forums.

 Elitist Jerks WotLK Healing Compendium v3.0 [theorycraft, specs, etc]