• constantius

That's what most people assumed it would be given, since on Beta it had no ICD and was severely overpowered. Still a solid trinket. I grabbed [Majestic Dragon Figurine] this evening from Sarth.10, since my back of the envelope math puts it at ~ 60 Mp5 passive. Additionally it's 52 spellpower when fully stacked, so that makes it an incredible combo for any fight where I can be casting once every 10 seconds (which is almost all fights). I need to figure out what spells I can cheeze it on, as well, for balancing around Hymn of the Hope channels to keep OO5SR. I'm hoping there's something I can do to proc it that doesn't involve spending mana.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

Liths

I must say that I'm a bit confused about who they are intending all the cloth armor with mp/5 for. Dps casters won't touch them which leads me to pick them all up, cause while they aren't exactly optimal they sure beat my old crap. Didn't they say they'd address that when you posted about it back in beta? I suppose it won't matter in the long run, I'll replace those pieces with stuff that has spirit on them eventualy. But it makes about as much sense as to put agility on half of the platemail pieces.

 

Tainter

The obvious ways that come to mind are Inner Focus, Holy Concentration and Hymn of Hope.

Some less obvious ones to be tried are perhaps:
- using Lightwell
- Bandages
- Herbalism HoT
- Will of the Forsaken, Cannibalism, Mana Top / Arcane Torrent, Stoneform and other racials

If you can't join them?
Beat them.

 

The Not So Evil

As expected, still, its delightfully good. If trinket procs every 45 sec it gives 900/45*5 = 100mp5. Obviously it wont return that much, more likely it will be in the vicinity of 25-50mp5.

At 25% Crit, you have a 50% chance to proc it after x casts:


If each cast is about 2 seconds long, that mean we get 50% of its effect after 45+10.74*2 = 66.48 seconds.
900 * 50% / 66.48 * 5mp5 = 33.84mp5.
(If this calculation turns someones stomach, please let me know and give an example of a better solution)

MP5 is good if the item already has Intellect and Spirit. The reason behind this is how the itemization formula works, stacking one stat becomes increasingly more expensive, so if they split it into 3 stats you can get more out of the itemization value of an item. On the other hand, Crit would probably be better than MP5, but sometimes, you gotta take what you can get.

Rawr - Coder of HolyPriest (Healer) and ShadowPriest (DPS) Modules.
Get Your Rawr 2.2.20!

 

Liths

I'm well aware of that, none of the items have spirit though. Look at the items I'm wearing, except for gloves/belt I'm not very happy with the stat distribution on them.

 

karlusdavius

It's my understand that Int and mp5 are better for disc priests? Since we wont be OO5SR much then a static amount of mana is better? Spirit ill be present in small amounts but only for meditation to have something to work with.

Int and Mp5 = King?


One quick question that nobody i no seems to 100% no the answer to.

Does Divine Aegis Stack? or was it even intended to stack?

 

Shaejin

I've tested it -- yes, it does stack.

 

Thorongil

While I feel highly tempted *not* to answer due to your obvious effortlessness in posting I´ll do it to clarify it for once and all times (until changes come up, that is):

For a Disc Priest Intellect is the main Regen stat. Replenishment, Rapture, Mana-Tide, Spirit/Int-based regen (if only little), crit (also, if only little) all scale with Intellect. Furthermore we have 15 % more of it due to talenting. All of these factors combined let Intellect sky-rocket concerning disc regen.

As far as Spirit and mp5 are concerned: Spirit is not particularly *bad*, it grants us Regen through Meditation. Not more and not less (since the rational assumption for oofsr time for a Disc Priest is *zero*). The good thing about that is, it makes Spirit and Mp5 very comparable stats. Simply compute the amount of Mp5 you gain from a said amount of Spirit and compare it a to the relevant raw Mp5 number to know which one is better in a particular situation (respectively on particular items). The only consideration you have to make is that Spirit scales with BoK while Mp5 does not. But that´s the bottom line.

To put it another way: For a Disc Priest (in comparison to a Holy Priest) Spirit and Mp5 are comparable and *interchangeable*. It does not really matter which one do you take, you just have a greater variety of items to choose from as Disc.

Concerning Aegis: It is intended to stack, yet some people have reported it to be buggy. I have not yet seen an empirical data-based evidence for either one or the other.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Idril.png

 

The Not So Evil

The testing I did on previous PTR showed that Divine Aegis does NOT stack. It overwrites itself.

That and the Rapture bug on Absorb are the 2 worst bugs left with Discipline right now. (Rapture returns gains based on the target that Absorbs damage = 0 mana back from targets with 0 mana. Includes Druids in bear form.)

Rawr - Coder of HolyPriest (Healer) and ShadowPriest (DPS) Modules.
Get Your Rawr 2.2.20!

 

Thorongil

With all due respect, but PTR-testing does not allow definite conclusions for Live Realms. However, the latter (Absorb-Rapture-Problem) shouldn´t be hard to test, you just need a warrior or such.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Idril.png

 

Promethia

Actually, absorbed damage on druids in bear form does return mana via rapture based on their max mana in caster form. I've tested it first hand. In fact I was the one who originally reported that bug. The only class I did not test was death knights, which I'd assume will not return mana since they have none themselves.

I've also tested this myself (on a rogue as it happens). The bug exists in version 3.0.3 on live.

I should emphasize that if one sifts through logs, the behavior of rapture with absorbs is quite buggy. For instance, here's a partially processed excerpt of log events from an actual log under 3.0.2:

At time HH:47:11.190, a feral tank gets hit by a shadow bolt. He takes 1730, 796 is resisted, and 1072 is absorbed.
Also at HH:47:11.190, this same tank has Divine Aegis removed (after being up 0.23 sec).
A fraction of a second later, rapture returns 88 mana.
At time HH:52:20.827, this same tank fully absorbs 620 damage from a disease cloud.
A fraction of a second later, rapture returns 19 mana.
At time HH:52:21.219, this same tank takes another disease cloud for 57 damage, 142 resisted, and 437 absorbed.
Also at HH:52:21.219, this same tank has Divine Aegis removed (after being up 0.39 sec).
A fraction of a second later, rapture returns 16 mana.

Ok, so explain those rapture returns. 88 is more than 4 times bigger than 19 but if you look at the absorbed damage 1072 isn't even twice 620. Believe it or not, the amount returned ends up being proportional to the amount absorbed plus the amount of damage taken. However, resisted and blocked damage is subtracted out. That is, the 88 mana is from 1730 + 1072 (=2802) instead from 1072. That's pretty messed up.

And that is not all. It also turns out that two hits happening in very close proximity (but not at the same time) can both be partially absorbed. From the log:

HH:44:18.690 Pally tank gain divine aegis
HH:44:18.699 Pally tank takes 211 melee damage (870 absorbed)
HH:44:18.774 Pally tank takes 288 melee damage (870 absorbed)
HH:44:19.110 Pally tank has divine aegis removed

So the same DA shield absorbed 870 twice instead of once, effectively doubling its effect. There are several other examples of this as well, so it's not an isolated quirk. Thus, there are numerous problems with the way absorb mechanics work. However, the biggest one by far is that mana returns from absorbs are based on the target's maximum mana, not the priest's.

 

Lambi

I got the same trinket, and I've been playing with it all night. The best spell to use it with is Hymn of Hope, because not only does it refresh the trinket when you click the button, it actually builds up and refreshes the stack every single mana tick! That's 4 stacks / ticks with you getting OO5SR AND building/maintaining stacks. Otherwise it basically builds on all your spells you have to click a button for and that's in your spellbook.

Here's some good alternatives:

-Prayer of mending.
-Renew.
-Desperate prayer.
-Inner focus.
-SoL procs.
-Holy conc. procs.
-Levitate! (your cheapest spell at around 100 mana?)
-Inner fire.
-Hymn of hope.

 

Sinndir

A couple of quick things.

1) Hymn of Hope - I find it to be sub-par however, if you are a priest heavy guild like we are and find 3 priests in a 10 man raid and 4 in a 25-man raid then make sure your raid leader knows to put the priests in the same group and try to time your Hymns together to gain upwards of 24% of your mana back (you get some OO5SR ticks in!) and pop your [Spirit-World Glass] (if you have it) right before the Hymn channeling.

2) Emblem purchases - I gathered up about 50 emblems real fast as soon as I hit 80 (guildies wanted to do heroics non-stop). So I checked out all the available purchases and picked up [Elegant Temple Gardens' Girdle] and threw a belt buckle in it for an extra socket.

I also see a lot of you continuing to spec 3/3 Improved Renew and I still am curious as to why?

 

Lhyssa

The short answer, I believe, is that there really isn't much better early in the tree, and Holy Concentration isn't worth it anymore as it no longer stacks with Improved Concentration Aura, meaning there is no way to use it to get uninterruptable heals unless something has changed recently. As is said earlier in the guide, if you have Imp CA, it means you spent two talent points to gain .15 seconds less of pushback. Pretty underwhelming, mathematically. As this guide is based around the idea of a well stacked raid, that's why it's part of at least the Holy cookie cutter build, and probably why a lot of people still spec it. Sure, you can drop it to 2/3 and pick up a point in Holy Reach or Mental Agility or something else, but it's still a better investment than HC.

 

Vihermaali

I'm going to give you a reason why not spec imp. renew!

I used to spec 3/3 renew simply because pre-WotLK holy crit was mostly useless talent. You didn't need crit, and so extra 15% on our hot was a decent choise. After recent horrorshow I had in 10-man patchwerk (2 innervates in 1 attempt and still ran out of mana. yes, managed to kill afterwards with 0 innervates) I noticed my ability to spam tanks was very heavily dependant on how well I can stopcast while healing him.

Because crit brings 1)Inspiration to tank 2)High chance of overhealing (more mana) 3)Possible clearcast proc 4)Possible surge of light proc, I decided to put the 3 points from imp. renew to holy specialization. I'd say filling up holy specialization is now a decent choise for holy priest.

 

karlusdavius

Judging from the responses about Divine Aegis, it seems that still nobody knows the answer to my question. Has anybody tested Divine Aegis on live and not PTR, and if it is intended to stack i would like to see where you have gotten this information from?


I assume you meant Int and Mp5.

Interchangeable

Same goes to you and checking your post.

 

• typobox

I don't think 5/5 Holy Specialization is much of a question anymore, and is where the first 5 points in the first tier almost always go. The issue is that you typically end up with 2 extra "free points" from Inspiration being the only particularly worthwhile thing on Tier 3, and not many places to put them. I guess some sort of compulsion leads people to steal a point from something else to get the third point. :P Personally, I'm running with Healing Focus simply because I don't have a stable enough raiding group to know that I'll always have a Concentration Aura at hand.

 

Bjork

Depending on raidsetup you run - especially in 25 man - you can argue to drop Inspiration completly. Priests don't heal the tank much these days if you have two holypaladins in the raid. Also, the burstdmg so far (breaths on both Malygos and Sartharion) is magical, not physical.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - then you can put last point in Inspiration or Healing Focus. I still like Imp Renew, especially for 5/10 man content.

If you get your head out of your ass you can find the answer to your own question maybe.

 

karlusdavius

Maybe I've tried? maybe i'm asking here because i know the people here to know what they are on about and have way more knowledge than me and nearly 99% of the posters on the WoW forums? My head is not in my ass. It's firmly on my shoulders. I posted that response up because i got three different answer to something i posted. which is good as it provokes discussion. I merely would like to know or try and find out if Divine Aegis does, or was even intended to stack.

As for Imp. Renew. in a 5/10 man context, the tanks when hitting 80 might not have the avoidance or amour rating needed and may take harder hits as a result. Increasing the amour through this talent would certainly help ease the pressure in the long run. But it depends strongly on your play style and 80 spec.

Talent Calculator

Ill be running something like that for 5/10 mans.

 

Jaz

Soul of the dead returned 8100 mana on last night's 25 KT kill, with replenishment returning around 11k, excellent trinket even without the massive crit.

My spirit regen is still lower than it was at 70, but with all the int and mana restore effects I'm spamming coh while keeping mending up on sapph the entire fight (7 second mending is in it's element on sapph and may be better than mental strength/agility imo).

 

Nadrikil

The topic of hybrid specs has been brought up earlier but I would like to quickly retouch on it. My origonal plan at 80 was to go for a 46/25 hybrid spec Wowhead

After reading this thread am I safe to assume that it would be contradictory in nature? The reason spirit is good for holy is because holy is able to cheat the 5sr enough to have the full regen. Going fairly deep disc but enough in holy for the 2 talents to modify spirit is not worth giving up borrowed time and penence to modify a stat that is not extremly helpful.

The other thing is, much of the discussion surrounding SoL and trinkets with procs in this thread are based on CoH spamming, but due to blizz's upcoming changes to CoH and WG (the 6sec CD) doesn't that make much of the discusion null?

 

Tainter

If you've spent 46 points in Disc then you really want to grab Penance. It's really very awesome. It will be well worth it. I'd probably take Focused Power over Enlightenment. 2% Output is quite a lot better for a point than 1% haste and less than 1% regen as far as output is concerned.

In fact I'd only pick up Enlightenement if I don't have enough output and people die.

If you can't join them?
Beat them.

 

Bjork

Sounds like a nerf is incoming for that trinket

Regarding regen, it's really fine when you get lvl 80 gear. I'm over 1500/560 mp5 raidbuffed and already have 10% haste + 20% crit. That's with only one lvl 70 item left (head, CBA geming and enchanting unless it's clear upgrade).

I gear purely for regen (intel/spirit) and take haste as "second stat" after that, pretty much exactly the same thinking as I had on lvl 70 just that Intellect is a lot better obviously and that I don't have that good regen yet compared to spell cost. Crit is to me not a good stat for regen, as I don't casts that many Greater Heals for it to make a big difference. Only bossfight I really go deep in my manapool is Sartharion and a clearcast proc is not going to make any huge difference there. Rather have haste for increased throughput on PoH/CoH.

As Blizzard still haven't announced any changes to CoH, it's impossible to say how gearing will look like in the future. The throughput on CoH is so good even with moderate SP, that my feeling is that stacking regen is by far the best way to get best raid performance.

 

Distomos

You really can't skip some points in Enlightenment (which I do think you're downplaying a little bit) in order to get Penance, as it's a 50 point talent. But, yes, you're right -- Penance is amazing.

As the only Holy Priest in our guild during the transition to Wrath, I've decided to try my hand at Discipline. In The Burning Crusade, I held onto COH like no other. I still miss it. However, I will be picking up Discipline gear as my "main set" and Holy gear as my "off-set" as COH will undoubtably be more than helpful during times a Restoration Druid might not be around.

Do not underestimate Aspiration, either. Now, the real reason I'm posting:

How does Borrowed Time work with the base 30% Spell Power -> amount absorbed specifically? Is it multiplicative so 0.30 * 1.40 = 42% conversion or is it additive so 0.30 + 0.40 = 70% conversion.

 

Starfire

I don't really miss CoH as much since I just let druids Wild Growth the raid. But what I can't fathom is, why on earth would you not take Penance? It heals for more than Flash Heal while costing Less mana (so better hpm). And Heals for more than Greater Heal while also costing less mana and doing it faster and increasing chance on procs.