Druids don't have mana problems what so ever, this nerf won't change that at all as they should never get OO5SR. Paladins are so good right now it's silly, no ones going to argue for that they need more mana regen unless they nerf the hell out of holy light. Shamans could use a buff in certain situations I'd say, so buff water shield or something and then scale back replentishment. It's so obvious that's the way to fix things.

No, it's not going to have much of an impact on priests. I don't think anyone is arguing for that, what it does do is dumb down the class. I like having to watch for those clear casting procs and make the most out of them, promoting mindless spaming even more isn't a step forward. With the proposed changes to the priest class we might need a nerf in the mana regeneration department, and that's fine. I just don't overly enjoy the direction they are taking with these nerfs, spirit is already a fairly weak stat for the class/spec that should want it the most. It's kind of sad that when [Cape of the Unworthy Wizard] droped last week and no one else wanted it I sighed and looted it just so it wouldn't go to waste when what I really wanted (along with every other caster in the guild) was a [Pennant Cloak].

Priests don't have mana problems what so ever, this nerf won't change that at all as they should almost never get OO5SR.

Now that we have a matching pair of stupid comments lets move on. For neither class does this change really weaken our regeneration very much if the in combat regeneration is kept roughly the same, Druids get a weaker Innervate (that amazing Utility™ we give away on all encounters while we drown in excess mana) but provided it can stay at around 80-100% of our mana pool it won't really matter.

The key negative factor from this change is how Spirit gets devalued compared to Int, which is odd considering how they have been trying to make Spirit a more desired stat among all classes who can use it. With the intent of lowering OO5SR time while raiding this further reduces mana gained from this source of regeneration which has the wonderful effect of making us more dependant on Int for Replenishment (amongst other things) just like Paladins, Shamans and Disc Priests.

Blizzard have had problems making Spirit desirable for the majority of classes who it was aimed for with the exception of Resto Druids and Holy Priests, this change makes me wonder if they have somewhat decided that Spirit should go the way of the Dodo and are trying to phase it out by shifting all its responsibilities onto the intended mana stat (Int) which would go a ways to their goal of consolidating mana and regeneration between all classes and simplifying the mechanics. This would also kind of explain why Int suddenly entered the realm of the OO5SR regeneration formula while also being prostituted off to as many functions of mana as possible in WoTLK.


When looking at it in a small window it is really an odd change due to the near minimal effect it has on both our specs due to the compensation we get from the enhanced Meditiation/Intensity. Once we look at the whole picture things start to seem a little more logical and we are just left with a twinge of regret at the loss of one of our oldest mechanics in the great name of homogenization as a means to retain a general sence of balance between the whole system.

It is a sad prospect if this actually is their intent because we have struggled for years to have Spirit as a significant stat (while shouting jeers at MP5) and between 2.4 and WoTLK we had almost achieved this if not for the introduction of Int-v2.0 overshadowing it.


Spirit gear does become more dubious at a glance but for Resto Druids at least we have to maintain a certain (unknown right now) amount due to Innervate which is going to be a new annoyance to math out considering it's somewhat more of a loss to take it over Int now.
Obviously while we both share this regeneration mechanism we are not effected the same way, a fair chunk was tied to Innervate in setting its value for us while your Shadowfiend is not tied to this.

Spirit and Int have become weaker in comparison to MP5 regarding the OO5SR regeneration change, the loss of OO5SR regeneration is not much but it is a loss. Innervate unless changed is 'our' means for applying a value to Spirit (roughly the balance was 2:1 Spirit to Int) which due to the impending nerf will be what plummets its value for us further in comparison to MP5. Int endures this nerf better because it only takes around half the hit that Spirit did regarding fueling Innervate and the majority of its functions such as Mana Pool and Replenishment remain unchanged.

But don't you think if they buff meditation significantly, that spirit will still be valuable? Mana management is still going to be a part of the game but perhaps the paradigm has just shifted from OO5SR to I5SR. I think we're going to end up having to take much more care in selecting which spells to cast and when to cast them. This is a good thing in my mind and not really a dumbing down.

Spirit hasn't lost too much of it's value, but neither has Int (leaving Int as still the clearly superior stat for all your mana regen needs).

Intelligently timing your spells was the most critical component of OO5SR regen, so I'm not sure why you would think that timing has become more important. Obviously a poorly timed heal still wastes the same amount of mana, but you lose the additional factor of "Is it worth interrupting my OO5SR to land this heal?". It's definitely dumbing down, though not by a huge amount (it's not like our bonus OO5SR regen will be reduced to 0).

Hard to say with out knowing the real numbers on it. I'd asume that priests will be getting a slight nerf, but that's just speculation. Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that I like having a signifigant part of my mana regeneration being based on that I cheat the 5SR in various way, making every class the same is a bad thing in my eyes.

These are the reasonings they've given and they're silly. (1) is just ridiculous, they can't be worried about riptide or renew and outside of pvp I can't imagine druids getting any benefit from it. Seems like a very dubious reason to change the mechanic to me.
(2) bothers me as well, clear casting/surge of light don't strike me as very overpowered, my spec these days don't even include surge of light. Comparing clear casting to illumination is a joke, the only reason its somewhat competetive is if we can get a bit of OO5SR time.

The reasons they've given for nerfing spirit just doesn't make any sense to me and it will make the priest class less unique and makes it more beneficial to just mindlessly spam spells, that's why it bothers me.

I just have the feeling that with current levels of regeneration, you can be a lot more careless with your casting as mana is rarely an issue. I'm just thinking (perhaps hoping) that with the changes to both regen and serendipity this will no longer be the case and healing will be a whole lot more interesting and tactful. It seems like we're speaking like this is the end of OO5SR, but I doubt that's the case as you have pointed out.

No matter what the actual numbers are, the only actual change is going to be to nerf oFSR ticks. If the nerf is less, then the whole thing is completely inconsequential and Blizzard has just gone and worked everyone up over nothing. If the nerf is more, then it devalues spirit, meaning that we move more toward intellect and resume spamming, because now there's even less reason for us not to.

I really think the only change will be on the "playing with FSR" style. If they buff Meditation (and other talents alike), then Spirit won't be less valuable than Mp5... Spirit will still add spellpower for Holy spec Priests (and Druid healing power).
If people start and swap Spirit for Mp5, they won't get more mana regen, and they will lose SpellPower. Unless i missed something here, i just think it'll force Holy Priest to play differently, which is i think one of their goals.

They can always counterbalance it with a high mana cost on that spell. I don't see any inherent problem here. Either it doesn't work with rapture or the spell itself will be expensive and does work with rapture. Also we don't know much about it anyway.

Does it apply Weakened Soul ? I would expect it, otherwise you could stack with PW:S which probably would be godlike in PVP
Has it got a cast time ? Hopefully not, it would be the first shield with it and would prevent its use at Malygos Vortex type fights for which it looks tailor made for.
Has it got a cooldown ? Can I spam 5 groups with it or can I put one on one single group ?
Does it return mana with Replenishment ? Would fit discipline priests theme but isn't strictly neccessary.
Is it an expensive spell ? Can I cast it often or is it one of those things that let me run dry ?

You see, there's enough parameters to tune it wherever they want to see it. Returning mana from it doesn't need to make it OP if that is counterbalanced by a large mana cost or a long cooldown. Although I really hope they don't put another cooldown on it, as I have already enough of them to watch and it's a really clumsy mechanic for any healer.

I agree with everyone here stating that holy priests just got taken away one if it's fun and highly enjoyable skill features; -trying to play outside of the 5SR. This was often one of the big differences between good and bad priests... anyone remember vanilla Twin Emperors and Sapphiron? We didn't have many spells but we sure as hell had to think hard when and how to use them.

Edit: I'm an idiot. Spirit for disc priests will be the same.

What I cannot understand is how they want to fix the problem of "Healers dont care about mana and dont care about efficiency" with nerfing oo5sr and buffing io5sr regen. Hell IF (holy)priests actually tried to use clearcasts for coming out of 5sr and maybe staying there as long as possible with a big heal afterwards - they showed that they really cared about mana and efficiency. If spirit-regen is the same inside and out of 5sr than all we can do is hope about some random clearcast-proccs and they want to call THAT manamanagement?

The only other thing that holy-priests could do to actively manage their mana after the change would be timing the single-target-heals to just being an overheal for most benefital serendepity if they dont remove that effect anyway. Yes, we also can try to think about which spell to cast for efficiency but most times there are only few answers to the question because of size of possible heals (GH is NOT more efficient than FH if 2/3 is overheal, FH cannot heal the tank from 10% up to 90% in one go), casttime and CDs.

I dont know how they think mana-management should look like. Why do they want me to rely on other people for having enough mana and just to feel the possibility of running dry IF they are present and sure running dry if they dont on the one hand but NOT have me make a decision about casting or delaying a spell - like they want paladins to think about Devine Plea?

I dont want to be dependent on replenishment and shamans. We nearly never had them in sunwell. We dont have a healing-shaman at the moment even in our 25-mans. I often dont have a replenisher - I dont know if the mages will have the specc for replenishment for our 10-mans after the patch. I think replenishment is just silly at the moment. If you dont be overgeared and enter a raid for the first time with replenishment after doing it some times without it you can see how stupid it is at the moment. I have to juggle my mana with every possible means when I dont have it but switching one person in the raid nearly nullifies all my problmes. Why is switching a person (and bringing the class not the player) the new form or mana-management?