WotLK Healing Compendium v3.0 [theorycraft, specs, etc] - Page 2

Venelar · 10/27/08, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ludraque

I may be mistaken but as I understand section XI b) you only considered the IHC proc and forgot about SoL.

SoL can proc off every cast (even the PoM-jumps) and has become an incredibly powerful talent to save mana. Blizzard also fixed the bug (at least in the beta) that SoL consumes charges of IHC. Accordingly, the value of int and critrating should be calculated including SoL procs.

For the AddOn-section I'd like to recommend "Event Alert" (available from wowinterface.com). It's a small addon which makes it impossible to miss clearcasts (without cluttering the screen).

I'm loving that the mending jumps can proc SoL as well. Random free heals are always nice. As far as that addon you mentioned "Event Alert" is great for SoL but i prefer "Thank God" for Holy Concentration. Check it out if you haven't already heard of it.

Sorry for the temp derail.

Xiv · 10/28/08, 5:27 AM

Also, might be worth adding and I also wonder how you folks use CoH nowadays.

First I obviously used it on a group of my choice. Nowadays, it sometimes works best if you have no target at all cause it will auto seek the 5/6 targets with lowest hps around you. Can anyone confirm how exactly this works?

- Does it heal the 5 lowest people around you?
- Or does it pick one player thats in range (lowest hp?) and heal the people around that target?

Either way, I'd use both methods depending on assignments and situation. How do you cope with that? Have 2 different macro's or keybindings? Maybe even have a macro that removes your target?

Thanks

[e] typo's

Lambi · 10/28/08, 6:28 AM

Picking up inspiration for a holy priest is only a must if you DON'T have a disc priest in the raid. If you DO have a disc priest in the raid, it's easily skippable. Good writeup so far.

Hegen · 10/28/08, 7:13 AM

Originally Posted by Xiv

Nowadays, it sometimes works best if you have no target at all cause it will auto seek the 5/6 targets with lowest hps around you. Can anyone confirm how exactly this works?

- Does it heal the 5 lowest people around you?
- Or does it pick one player thats in range (lowest hp?) and heal the people around that target?

On 3.0.2 live, CoH is still a targeted spell. If you cast it and do not have a target, your mouse pointer changes for you to select a target.

From where do you get the impression that non-targeted CoH is at all possible? Is that how it works in the beta?

RonRico · 10/28/08, 7:40 AM

Q: Holy Reach - yes/no?
A: It's really not necessary now that CoH is smart-targeted and raid-wide. You can take it if you wish, but you will sacrifice throughput or regen talents to get it (usually Test of Faith is dropped to 1/3). Alternatively, you can drop 2/3 from Improved Renew to pick it up, since Renew is much less useful in WotLK, at least until extremely high gear levels.

How do the changes to CoH make Holy Reach less necessary than before? I would think that the CoH changes make Holy Reach more valuable, since CoH heals are now likely to look outside of a certain cluster of players (since clusters are usually organized by group or function) if said cluster is already topped off. The extra range provided by Holy Reach will allow CoH to smart-target an even broader range of possible raid-wide targets.

Xiv · 10/28/08, 8:04 AM

Originally Posted by Hegen

On 3.0.2 live, CoH is still a targeted spell. If you cast it and do not have a target, your mouse pointer changes for you to select a target.

From where do you get the impression that non-targeted CoH is at all possible? Is that how it works in the betaJoin

hmm, I'm actually casting it on myself when I have no target, but only just figured that it doesn't even have to heal the person you target and is 100% smart. I thought it would be healing the 1 you cast it on plus the 4/5 lowest around your target. My bad.

Xiv · 10/28/08, 8:08 AM

removed.

Exinfernis · 10/28/08, 8:14 AM

Immaculate work as ever Constantius, thank you for the time/effort.

Given the nigh-mandatory 14 points spent in Disc, the Holy tree sees full fruition only at lvl 80 unfortunately.

Crow · 10/28/08, 9:28 AM

1. 1% crit = 166.67 intellect
2. 1 intellect = 0.0125 Mp5 (Replenishment)
3. 1 intellect = 0.208 Mp5 (6 minute fight, mana pool size)
4. 1 intellect = 0.083 Mp5 (6 minute fight, shadowfiend)
5. 1 intellect = 0.114 Mp5 (Holy, 6 minute fight, IHC procs from crit, split 50/50 Flash and GHeal)
6. 1 intellect = 0.017 Mp5 (Disc, 6 minute fight, Divine Aegis absorb crits procing Rapture)
7. 1 intellect = 0.194 Mp5 (Meditation, 1000 spirit assumed, 80% I5SR)
8. 1 spirit = 0.388 Mp5 (Meditation, 1000 intellect assumed, 80% I5SR)
9. 1 spirit = 0.25 spellpower (Holy, Spiritual Guidance)

Ad 2.
If 1 int is 15 mana, than 15 * 0.25%*5 is 0.1875 MP5 per point of int from replenishment (which translates to 0.206 and 0.237 (based on build) as mentioned in section II ). Am I missing something? I am assuming 100% replenishment uptime, which obviously is not true, but the value 0.0125 seems to assume less than 10% uptime, which obviously is not case as well…

Ad 4.
It is possibly worth noting that this value assumes 41% return from shadowfiend. The numbers suggested in section Vb (25-30%) would result in 0.052 – 0.062 MP5 / point of int.

Ad 5.
According to calculations below this number assumes 50/50 split between GH and BH (47 chances to proc per minute). 50/50 split between FH and GH would mean (still according to numbers below – 42 FH/minute vs 10GH/minute) 26 chances to proc per minute, leading to 0.117 expected procs per 1% crit. That in turn changes our 1.3 free casts to 0.7 free casts, resulting in (1054 * 0.7 / 167 = 4.4 mana) 0.061 MP5 per point of int.

I was also unable to verify the summary of int value at the end of the section. Summarizing the values listed above, and multiplying by 1.1/1.265 would lead to 0.672/0.663. Moreover, if we replaced the replenishment value of int by 0.1875 we would get 0.865 / 0.872 (almost 2 times the value of spirit mp5 ).

I hope those minor comments will help in development of your guide, which was a great help for me for a long time now. Since I am here I would like to thank you a lot for your effort, Constantius.

EDIT: fixed calculation error in mp5 value per point of int for FH/GH split

Melrose · 10/28/08, 9:41 AM

Originally Posted by RonRico

How do the changes to CoH make Holy Reach less necessary than before? I would think that the CoH changes make Holy Reach more valuable, since CoH heals are now likely to look outside of a certain cluster of players (since clusters are usually organized by group or function) if said cluster is already topped off. The extra range provided by Holy Reach will allow CoH to smart-target an even broader range of possible raid-wide targets.

This is also my concern. Would it not be more beneficial at least to move the one point you have out of Desperate Prayer into Holy Reach? With the CoH smart-targetting, it seems more important than ever to have Holy Reach.

Aside from that, really great source of information as always. Thanks

lenvik · 10/28/08, 11:01 AM

You might want to mention (in the shadowfiend section) using your shadowfiend just before a shaman bloodlusts. I assume it still works for the fiend?

Also: prayer of mending generates 0 healing threat for anyone on 3.0.2 live (haven't checked the beta recently).

You should change Omen/Threat-1.0 to Omen3, using the inbuilt threat data.

Onestandard · 10/28/08, 11:21 AM

Q: What are the must-have talents for a Holy priest?
A: IHC, Serendipity, Guardian Spirit, and obviously Spiritual Healing. Guardian Spirit is remarkably good for a 51-point talent; you have to spend a lot of points to get it, but its usefulness cannot be overstated. Serendipity is holy's equivalence to Rapture, and is again a tremendous talent, and IHC has to be seen to be appreciated. The haste and mana return benefits are extremely strong.

I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

lenvik · 10/28/08, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Onestandard

I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

2 piece T5 was pretty amazing in TBC and Serendipity is really good now. You can aim to have most of your heals do some overhealing.

YukinoHana · 10/28/08, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Onestandard

I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

Serendipity returns more than the 2-piece T5 and doesn't require you to use inferior healing gear to obtain the mana returns. It also works off of both flash heal and greater heal, which means with flash heal glyph, for healing deficits of around 3k, flash heal is actually more efficient than using a renew and is more HPS. And of course, for tank healing, it's invaluable. Sure, you could argue if you cast NOTHING but CoH, you won't see any benefits, but what are the realistic chances you never, ever, ever, ever, ever single target heal in a raid? It's virtually nil for me. And what talents would you take that would so vastly improve your raid healing that you're willing to slaughter your single target healing efficiency to a point where it'd be pointless to put you on single target healing -because in a single target situation, parses show serendipity as returning more mana than meditation. I personally can't see any that are so compelling in either Holy or next tier Disc that would warrant dropping Serendipity.

Imp: Disc is a waste of talent points because it doesn't stack with flametongue totem and that gives higher spell damage, I believe.

Hegen · 10/28/08, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Onestandard

I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I think the most important reason is this one:

In 2-piece T5 times, you had a choice: downrank for mana efficiency or intentionally overheal to reduce risk. 2pc T5 was made to improve mana efficiency in places where you absolutely want to overheal.

You no longer have that choice. Downranking is gone, so you need Serendipity do come at least near your old mana efficiency.