Pressured

yea yea of course i'm not saying that it's final or anything. just kinda pointing out that his best in slot selections put it at 496haste and only 212crit. not including gem slots which if u used +haste in yellows and +power/haste in reds... would be an insane amount of haste lol.

just saying that it seems high.

by the way 25% raid buffed crit is... what unbuffed? 20%?

 

Restomak

This was brought up earlier as a question, and I'd like to direct my point to that.

Currently, for consumables, there is an elixir for intellect [Elixir of Mighty Thoughts], and an elixir for spirit [Elixir of Spirit], but there are no new Int + Spirit elixirs, aside from [Guru's Elixir]. However, because Guru's Elixir only provides 20 of both int and spirit (though stam as well), [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom] still seems to trump it.

It seems I may still be using those elixirs as my guardian ones, unless someone knows of a better one I overlooked? This is assuming we aren't using flasks.


Edit: [Guru's Elixir] is a battle elixir. Oops! This does also reinforce my point, however: The TBC elixir is still superior.

 

Sebalot

I have reduced my crit a bit now (around 21% self buffed) and I am primarily looking to boost haste but also a bit of spirit. Because with my mana pool and my crit I can last a whole patchwerk spamming greater heals and there is no need to boost mana regen through crits. I do feel I can use a bit more oo5 regen for other fights where I for example am bursting with CoH regularly, which is why I am looking into increasing spirit a bit.

But with enough haste I suspect I might run into mana troubles again on pure single target spamfests and there is a point in gearing for more crit. I have to say I find the simultaneous surge of light+holy concentration procs fantastic for getting the full 20 seconds out of casting if I have Inner fire up. Those 20 seconds while I pop my spirit trinket gives me pretty good regen even in intense fights. But those double procs are more a perk than something that should be relied on.

 

Zoï

[Elixir of Draenic Wisdom] does seem in my opinion best guardian to raid with, 30 of intellect and spirit seems more combined than either 45 intellect or 50 spirit.

My biggest problem is the new buff foods. All the spirit seems to be replaced with stamina, however there is spirit food with stamina, no more spelpower and spirit. I'm switiching around between crit, mp5 and spelpower food, but I haven't found a clear one which is the best since there is no obvious replacement for [Golden Fish Sticks].

 

Kortar

I'm beginning to think the same thing, going with a spec like: 20/51/0 (Ignore the points in Martyrdom/Blessed Recovery - those are 'free' points).
Such a build would emphasize the CoH/SoL/ProM healing methodology of raids at the expense of mana efficiency for the single target heals. However, the throughput of single target heals would be retained for occaisional healing and/or 5-mans.

 

lassenc

I'm trying to find upgrades for my current loot. Mainly upgrading for heroics atm.

Current leggings: [Conferred Pantaloons]

Possible upgrades: [Woven Bracae Leggings] or [Skirt of the Old Kingdom]

Crit is nice, but so is Mp5? Currently I am deep in Holy, but seriously considering Disc as I am not using CoH enough to justify a spec for it.

[Overlook Handguards] over [Spellweave Gloves]?


There has been alot of talk about it in the forum, but I am still quite unsure how I should value haste.

 

Jipakazoid

lassenc, please post this kind of questions in Simple Q&A thread.

I would go with Leggings and Gloves. Remember that deep holy is not just CoH. You should value haste greatly (if you are looking for numbers, there are several weight tables and links to such posted already).

 

lassenc

Will do next time, thanks for the replies

 

Distomos

Yes, this is what I feel is contradictory. The first post claims that it's ideal to aim for 25% crit (including raid buffs). And, while I'm not devaluing +haste to any degree, it does seem like you would need another piece with +crit on it to reach that mark. Please correct us if we're wrong and my math sucks. :) Is that what the "arguable" next to Ring of Decaying Beauty signifies, perhaps?

(Somehow, I also know that I'm wrong because I'm sure Nidaba has double-checked his list, as well.)

 

Akarai

I have been using this spec for a while and I have found that it gives me great efficiency while raid healing but allows me to remain competitive with main tank/5man healing as well. Holy concentration and improved holy concentration are fantastic additions and should not be undervalued. On this fight I was MT healing. Holy concentration may have only proc'd 4 times but it was enough to give me some breathing room (casting and mana wise) and I never had to pot. It may just come down to personal healing styles but for me, this spec has worked wonderfully.

 

Caligula

I hadn't seen this mentioned, and I tried doing a thread search (which seemed to be broken when I entered surge of light it told me that I had less than the 3 word minimum to search...). Anyway, I found a pretty awesome bug with Surge of Light.

I believe that ProM is proccing SoL even if you do not have the talent, or perhaps if you've taken SoL when spec'd holy it remains even after you respec.

I am spec'd 57/14 disc for this entire run:

Wow Web Stats

(notice me using penance, also my current armory spec is the spec I was using last night)

Wow Web Stats

68 SoL procs

I've pretty much determined that it is all ProM crits that do it. Which makes it seem very weird when it pops up, I was confused for awhile because I wasn't even casting spells but SoL would proc.

Wow Web Stats

22:00'58.282 Caligula's Unleashed Rage is refreshed.
22:00'58.323 Caligula's Ferocious Inspiration is refreshed.
22:00'58.407 Caligula's Ferocious Inspiration is refreshed.
22:00'58.553 Caligula gains 56 Mana from Umbreonn Replenishment.
22:00'58.693 Caligula's Elemental Oath is refreshed.
22:00'58.693 Caligula Prayer of Mending heals Fajita for 4752. (Critical) (2062 Overheal)
22:00'58.693 Mokoa gains Prayer of Mending.
22:00'59.100 Fajita gains Divine Aegis.
22:00'59.100 Caligula's Ferocious Inspiration is refreshed.
22:00'59.451 Caligula gains Surge of Light.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...s/Caligula.png

 

Cahrin

It's been mentioned here and there throughout this thread.

For my own interest, could you either send me the log (I'll PM you my email address if you agree) or check yourself whether your PoM overrode your other priest's PoM?

Edit: The reason being that the assumed cause is your PoMs overwriting someone else's who has SoL.

 

lassenc

Would that make SoL in Holy 2 wasted points since it can proc anyway?

 

Caligula

Here's what I've gathered from the log (which is linked 3 times in my other post if you're interested in browsing):

This is with the filter 'Unit="surgio" and spell="prayer of mending"'

22:00'49.037 Civrock gains Prayer of Mending.
22:00'55.016 Surgio Prayer of Mending heals Civrock for 6038. (Critical) (6038 Overheal)
22:00'55.016 Winemonkey gains Prayer of Mending.
22:01'00.398 Surgio Prayer of Mending heals Winemonkey for 4025.
22:01'00.398 Mokoa gains Prayer of Mending.
22:01'08.988 Surgio Prayer of Mending heals Mokoa for 4025.

Again using the same filter but with my name for the same time period. I included my last use of ProM from 3 minutes before just to show when it was previously used.

19:57'31.588 Caligula Prayer of Mending heals Goldleader for 3554.
22:00'51.337 Fajita gains Prayer of Mending.
22:00'58.693 Caligula Prayer of Mending heals Fajita for 4752. (Critical) (2062 Overheal)
22:00'58.693 Mokoa gains Prayer of Mending.
22:01'00.398 Caligula Prayer of Mending heals Mokoa for 4752. (Critical)

It's pretty clear to me from the log that Surgio's ProM went to Civrock at 49", then bounced to Winemonkey at 55", then bounced to Mokoa at 1'00". My ProM was cast on Fajita at 51" and bounced to Mokoa at 58". That would seem like an anomaly but if you look here:

22:01'00.398 Caligula Prayer of Mending heals Mokoa for 4752. (Critical)
22:01'00.398 Avidya gains Prayer of Mending.
22:01'00.398 Nozi gains 477 Mana from Water Shield.
22:01'00.398 Surgio Prayer of Mending heals Winemonkey for 4025.
22:01'00.398 Mokoa gains Prayer of Mending.

My Prom healed Mokoa for 4752 and bounced to Avidya. In the same tick, Surgio's ProM healed Winemonkey and bounced to Mokoa. Note, I gained SoL before this happened (at 22:00'59.451), but a split second after my ProM crit healed Fajita (see my first post). Surgio never cast ProM on Fajita, so I do not believe that mine ever overwrote his.

Unless the SoL proc for me came from the server before the healing went off on Mokoa? My understanding is that this buffs always come after the spell that procs them, but perhaps it was bad latency?

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...s/Caligula.png

 

Sinndir

In all honesty, after doing a Naxx 25 with SoL and without. I think SoL is a wasted 2 points in any form.

Especially if you have a Disc priest who doesn't want Surge of Light procs.

 

Razzberry

Sinndir, I've seen you write this a couple times, but I don't understand what the downside to an instant-cast, mana-free heal is for Disc priests. Is it because it can't crit and proc DA/Inspiration?

 

Isin

I suppose he's saying it because SoL purely helps your HPM while hurting your HPS. As Disc priests rarely have mana problems anyway, it is not a tradeoff he likes. In either case, it's clearly a bug, and not really that big a deal.

 

Mojofabulous

I agree with the concept you both speak of, but that 20/51 talent spec is quite flawed using this line of logic imo. My current spec until coh is nerfed: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

With current gear I can spam coh for a long long time and virtually forever if given an innervate and am still able to tank heal just fine on say, patchwerk with no throughput or mana issues. Seems like everyone is talenting and gemming for a time that is not yet here. CoH is spammable and mana-sustainable with 25 man gear. Why fight it.

 

Morthgael

I got Soul of the Dead some time ago and for the first time actually managed to get wws info about it from full 25man Naxxramas run. In case some people are still pondering whether or not to go for it, here's some numbers.

Crit in my gear with only distilled wisdom is 20,07%, had int+kings+moonkin in raid so it was around 26%+.
During the whole run it procced 101 times and restored 90900 mana in total.

In comparison to other mana restores, the log was in two parts:

Replenishment 153,506
Mana Spring Totem 92,225
Soul of the Dead 57,600
Mana Tide Totem 35,713
Mana Leech 35,390
Serendipity 31,951

Replenishment 106,675
Mana Spring Totem 62,777
Serendipity 36,976
Soul of the Dead 33,300
Mana Tide Totem 20,974
Mana Leech 19,244

Overall, I'm in love with that little trinket

 

• tsigo

Yeah, it's quite good. Generally in the 50-70 mp5 range on most encounters so far.

 

Sinndir

Well since I'm not the Disc priest I cannot give you the best answer. Cahrin, my guild-mate who is our Disc priest said two weeks ago he was hating that he was getting Surge of Light procs. So I spec'd out of it since I rarely used them anyways. It is a free 4k heal, or I could just CoH which usually yields 10k+ (non-crits) or a PoM which yields a lot more than 4k.

I have found that I just don't use Surge of Light enough to warrant having it. So I stuck the 2 points in Healing Prayers.

Prayer of Mending costs 579.45 mana - (15% base mana, base mana = 3863*0.15 = 579.45)

Since I'm spec'd for Divine Providence I cast PoM every ~8 seconds. Some quick math:
Mana used in 5 seconds = (579.45/8) * 5 = 362 Mp5 consumed from PoM

Now with 2 points in Healing Prayers I get this:
Mana used in 5 seconds = ((579.45*0.80) / 8) * 5 = 290 Mp5 consumed from PoM

The 2 points in Healing Prayers, for me, is worth ~72 mp5. Over an average boss fight (assume 5 minutes), I am saving 17,400 mana. And for me personally, that is worth more than Surge of Light could ever be. Especially when that 17k mana is invested straight into Circle of Healing.

 

• constantius

Totals for my BiS set, assuming full raid buffs, only thing missing is a flask:

Stamina: 1096
Intellect: 1240
Spirit: 1234
Mp5 (I5SR): 502
Crit: 25%
Haste: 25%
Spellpower: 2545

I'd say that's just about perfect. You could argue for a little more crit, a little less haste, but otherwise ...

[e] Enchants: Crit on helm/shoulders, +10 on chest, no cloak, Int on bracers, Spell on Gloves, 50/20 on Legs, 18 spi on boots, +19 spell on both rings, +45 spi on staff.

To the first poster, no, unbuffed crit rates are approximately 8% below raid-buffed crit rates, assuming no flask. You gain 5% flat from moonkin, and then an additional ~ 2.x% from GotW, AI, and BoK. The final jump can come from food; using the 40 crit food gains you almost an additional %.

For long-term goals, if I am assured WoA+Imp Moonkin aura, I'll probably switch out my [Spire of Sunset] for a crit-heavy weapon (like [Staff of Restraint]).

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

Coztomba

I still don't get the Int enchant on bracers with your gemming choices. You can replace 2 [Sparkling Sky Sapphire] with 2 [Seer's Forest Emerald] change to 18 Spirit on bracers, gain 2 spirit and lose nothing. 18 Spirit is the best item budget for a regen enchant. I'll be moving to that if i ever get some bracers to drop.

 

Phlug

[Soul of the Dead] this has been brushed upon briefly, Can someone check my numbers?

Assuming 25% crit and 20% haste in a raid, 2pt T7 and glyph of COH

thats 48 GCD's per minute full AOE healing, 5 will be for PoM (6 chances to crit) the remaining COH (6 chances to crit per hit) Combined in ideal situations that is 288 seprate chances to crit. Again with 25% raid crit we will hopefilly crit 72 times. We will again assume the trinket is ~2% chance to proc 1.44 PPM or ~108 Mp5

Unless it has an ICD thats over 100 MP5 and 95 crit rating on one trinket. That beats the pants off any of the spirit trinekt!


2% proc rate and a 45s ICD would still produce 50+MP5 I would heavily consider this the best item in the game for a COH priest. (unless my math sucks, and it often does)

 

◊ Bekah

I recall being told that it has a 45s ICD. That said, I wouldn't trade it out for anything that I've run across as long as I'm still heavily using CoH (and even if I went to single target I think I'd be happy to have it). I paired it with a spirit trinket (spirit world glass) and I am quite happy with the results.

I'm a bit high on crit at the moment (28% with full raid buffs and moonkin), but I'm really enjoying the playstyle interaction of procs with my healing and, at the moment, there's no content that's made me wish for more haste. I've been gearing up mostly on whatever isn't highly contested (as the BiS gear will come eventually and I'll be running these raids until my eyes bleed or the next content patch- whichever comes first) since I'm capable of handling the content right now even with the few pieces of T6. Getting out of T6 and blues and into appropriately iLvl'd epic gear- even if less than ideal- seemed to make the strongest change to my ability to make my mana pool stretch and keep my throughput steady.