Kraylessa

There is a God!! Thanks so much for proving this is fixed. I am psyched!

 

Cydon

Nice to see that rapture is getting fixed. Do you know if the Improved PW:S talent has been fixed to scale with spellpower as well?

 

Drowena

Here's the macro I came up with in case you want chat messages with the exact mouseover target name:

/stopcasting
/cast [target=mouseover][] Guardian Spirit
/run u=UnitName("mouseover"); m=" GS and can't die for 10s!"; if u then SendChatMessage("You have" .. m, "WHISPER",nil,u); SendChatMessage(u .. " has" .. m, "RAID_WARNING",nil,nil); end

 

Lytewish

deleted by Lytewish

 

Abygail

Does anyone know if the intended threat changes to Prayer of Mending have finally been put in place? Last night on Patchwerk he ran straight to me killed me, then killed one of the druid healers. Here is the info from the WWS. The only thing that I can think of is the by "casting" PoM it generated enough threat to pull aggro. I looked everywhere and could not find any information since September on changes to PoM. I'll do some testing tonight but wondered if anyone else has seen this just recently. Thank you.

21:17'35.516 Ankarita Death Grip failed. Patchwerk was immune.
21:17'35.750 Ankarita Death Grip failed. Patchwerk was immune.
21:17'36.250 Abygail gains Talisman of Troll Divinity.
21:17'36.250 Jekaster gains Prayer of Mending.
21:17'37.125 Abygail gains 300 Mana from Darkglow.
21:17'38.578 Ankarita gains Rejuvenation.
21:17'38.578 Jekaster gains Lifebloom.
21:17'39.734 Shadow gains Call of the Wild.
21:17'39.797 Ankarita Icy Touch hits Patchwerk for 706 Frost.
21:17'39.797 Patchwerk is afflicted by Frost Fever.
21:17'39.797 Kaanu gains Call of the Wild.
21:17'39.797 Ankarita gains Call of the Wild.
21:17'39.797 Krakatau gains Call of the Wild.
21:17'39.797 Alypto gains Call of the Wild.
21:17'39.797 Rieley gains Call of the Wild.
21:17'39.797 Patchwerk is afflicted by Spirit Strike.
21:17'39.797 Patchwerk suffers 376 Arcane damage from Shadow Spirit Strike.
21:17'40.297 Ankarita gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.297 Ankarita gains Icy Talons.
21:17'40.297 Shadow gains Bloodthirsty.
21:17'40.297 Jekaster gains Lifebloom (2).
21:17'40.297 Ankarita Dark Command failed. Patchwerk was immune.
21:17'40.562 Patchwerk melee swing hits Abygail for 10914 Physical.
21:17'40.594 Stabbingju gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Vazor gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Fallenstar gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Jekaster gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Alypto gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Abygail gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Kaanu gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Shadow gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Rieley gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Krakatau gains Improved Icy Talons.
21:17'40.594 Ankarita gains Lifebloom.
21:17'40.609 Patchwerk Hateful Strike hits Vazor for 14886 Physical.
21:17'41.000 Shadow gains Rabid.
21:17'41.172 Shadow gains 20 Pet Happiness from Bloodthirsty.
21:17'41.312 Shadow melee swing hits Patchwerk for 359 Physical.
21:17'41.437 Jekaster gains Rejuvenation.
21:17'41.672 Patchwerk melee swing hits Abygail for 10651 Physical.
21:17'42.016 Patchwerk Hateful Strike hits Fallenstar for 14629 Physical.
21:17'42.187 Abygail died.
21:17'42.187 Abygail Spirit of Redemption heals Abygail for 2. (Critical)
21:17'42.187 Abygail gains Spirit of Redemption.
21:17'42.187 Shadow Claw hits Patchwerk for 312 Physical.
21:17'42.187 Ankarita gains Lifebloom (2).

 

Liths

Don't blame pom, had nothing to do with it. The 300 mana gain from darkglow and the activated trinket are probably the cause.

 

Fitch

Last night raid-buffed (cheap food, BC pots) I hovered around 1325 / 525 mp5 and 28% crit. I ended Patchwerk just under 80% mana, with all of my CD's up, even though I basically just spammed GHeal. I realize that Patchwerk's a very controlled environment, but even on the other encounters I never experienced anything even slightly describable as a mana problem even when I chain-casted COH. I've come to realize now that with a CD on COH I may have even fewer mana limitations, since I'll be able to take advantage of (the nine talent points in) HC and Serendipity.

So, to answer your question: yes, I will be gemming more for haste since I likely will still be raid-healing. Ideally I want my heals to land before my guild's other healers even think about healing my target, and more haste too will allow me more leeway to cancel-cast. I'm hoping to reach 15% by Uldular, but that may be unrealistic if I hope to have my other stats balanced out... does anyone know of a Magelo-like service that allows for us to fool around with 'wish lists' and what not to figure out our personal ideal stats balance (without the headache of using a pen and pencil)?

 

Allesin

I do use the Renew glyph, and I saw roughly a 400/tick difference between his renew and my own, which lead me to assume his was non-glyphed. Assuming a glyphed Renew however leads to the following:

(29 * 4) = 116 total ticks, of which 71 were visible. That leaves 45 ticks as complete overheal, so overheal numbers of roughly 40-45%, which still negates any efficiency on the part of the spell.

The only places I've truly found renew useful are Sapphiron, pre-casting for the Vortex on Malygos, and sometimes as a buffer for tanks. We will be trying 2 healers for 10man Sarth with drakes in the near future, and I expect that will be another possible use for it.

To reinforce what was said above, in most situations, the numbers say it's just not as efficient as flash heal, and from practice it is exponentially more likely to get healed over by other raid healers, making it an even bigger mana cost for minimal gain. You can use this spell in most 25mans and the raid will survive, but it is rarely an optimal spell choice from an efficiency standpoint.


Guardian Spirit when used as a save is probably the coolest spell I have seen in quite some time. It really does feel weird, but one of my favorite uses is healing the drake tank for 10man Sartharion and if he's low when lava churns, I can throw that on him and make sure I'm in position without worrying about him being below half hp before I'm ready to channel another heal. But it truly is a versatile spell; the ability to allow a killing blow to land at still keep a player alive is incredibly powerful as you adjust to it.

 

siegfried

The most irksome times I have had with healing as holy have been when I use GS as a save a little too soon (still able to save though) and the tank you are healing pops all his cooldowns because he thinks you are doing a bad job. He then ends up taking a dirtnap. It is an awesome spell, but it may never get to the point where the tank you are healing gets the message that 'dying' may not in fact be dying.

 

Lytewish

Tanks arent complaining about their rage generation right now with Disc PWS's on them; however, with the next build allowing DA to stack with IPWS we are talking a significantly higher potential mitigation figure. I assume with the way threat is currently built that there shouldnt be any rage-gen issues with this new change, but I still wanted to figure out the new potential mitigation figures correctly to see what Disc will actually have to work with after the buff.

After the buff it will be DA and IPWS together potentially (prime scenario). I have redone the new mitigation numbers below based on a raid buffed Disc Priest in good 25man raid gear based on stacking DA+IPWS post buff.

Post Buff Potential Mitigation(where DA will stack with IPWS):

Figures Used:

• 12,000 hp heal crit used for DA (fully raid buffed and 25man epic geared disc priest)
• 2200 spellpower used (raid buffed)

Post Buff IPWS stacked w/DA= (2230 PWS base * 1.15 IPWS)+(2200 SPP raid buffed * .4 BT)+(12,000hp GHeal crit * 0.3 DA)= 7044.5 Total Mitigation

Assuming I didnt miss anything 7045 hp would be the new potential mitigation total. Dev's have stated the anti-rage generation with stacking shields will have minimal negative effects but some tanks posted that they are concerned...in all likelyhood it shouldnt be an issue I imagine?

This scenario will happen often, as a lot of times the Disc healer will proc DA while casting Gheal on the tank, and then can follow with an IPWS right after.

 

Thorongil

Your number seems a bit low. Disc-Shields in 25gear absorb easily about 5,5-6k points of damage. Adding 30 % of a 12k GH I´d come up with something in the region of 9k total mitigation. 10k shouldn´t be a problem with heavy spelldamage gear.

Anyways, it doesn´t hurt threat generation at the time being (at least not if you do not place shields stupidly) and I think this enhancment won´t be a big deal in the future. I value the bigger absorption numbers way higher.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Idril.png

 

• constantius

I've actually seen parses with PW:S absorbs in excess of 7000, so your total number should be ~ 10,600.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

Incoherence

Probably Darkglow, since mana gains ARE counted as threat, rather than the trinket (which I don't think counts).

In other words, even though PoM is technically threatless, this still means you should cast it during a pull with extreme caution, as you have a fairly good chance of picking up an IED proc or Darkglow proc, both of which are NOT threatless.

 

toth

Certainly. What I have been doing lately is hitting GS and then tossing GHeals to try to get the tank back up and not counting on the 50% heal unless I'm low on mana. Worst case scenario is that I benefit from the 40% healing increase and save the tank, best case scenario GS saves his life and I get a full GHeal on top of the 50% heal.

 

The Not So Evil

Any tank complaining about his rage generation in a Raid needs to stop blaming it on the Priest.

If you are to look at 6000 + 12000*0.3*7.5*0.33 ~= 15000/15 = 1000 absorb/second, and look at the alternative, Inspiration, taking a NON-Armor Capped Bear tank, who has 71% physical reduction before inspiration, and 75% after. A 30000 swing every 2.5s from the boss would give 8700/2.5 = 3480 damage on tank, and 7500/2.5 = 3000 with Inspiration. Similar for a Warrior would be 61% before inspiration, 68% with inspiration. 4680 vs 3840.

Both effects increase the Tanks effective health. However, PW: S is more reliable and can be put on at demand. Basically, if tanks dont feel that Inspiration hampers their rage gain, they should not whimper about Shields. I believe a lot of tanks still live in TBC, where their rage gain was low from their own damage.

Rawr - Coder of HolyPriest (Healer) and ShadowPriest (DPS) Modules.
Get Your Rawr 2.2.20!

 

Cahrin

The general consensus from this thread is that you only want to cast GH on BT. Based on that, this scenario won't really occur that often unless you're PW:Sing reactively and not on CD.

Regardless, with a 10k absorb, you can see why letting DA stack could get out of hand - it's easily conceivable that you could get another ~3k before another hit, and adding more disc priests into the mix makes the amount even larger.

On a different note, is there a reason no one has started a separate Disc thread?

 

Lytewish

Can you show me where you get that number 6000hp #from? The base PWS spell is 2230 hp. if you have 15% IPWS thats
2564.5 and if you add 40% of your spellpower from BT (use 2200 spell power) .4*2200 = 880 additional which gives you a total shield of 3444.5 hp.

Help me out and show me where your 6000 hp shield is coming from, because I dont see it in the numbers. It might be correct, but I dont see where the missing 2555 hp is coming from

 

Tzeni

How often is "not often" though? I've only been disc for one raid so far, so I'm still refining my gameplay in this mode, but my healing pattern on tanks goes somewhat like:

PW:S
[BT-hasted Gheal]
[Use Penance reactively when tank is missing health and I either haven't started a Gheal or am not far along in the process of casting it]
[Cancel-cast Gheal]
PW:S when CD is up

(and maybe use PoM on CD depending on the fight and whether I think I can get at least 2 heals out of it)

Going like this, I estimate about 70% of the time I use PW:S, I'll have just ended either a Gheal or a Penance (usually a Gheal). I have ~25% crit, so (0.7*0.25) about 17.5% of the time I use PW:S I'll also have a DA on there.

You can adjust the 70% however you want (and obviously it'll always be lower than the 100% that the orginal person suggested in his healing style), but it does seem like DA and PW:S will be stacking more often than you think.

Edit: I just realized that you meant that you never use Gheal at all unless it's BT-hasted. I hadn't thought about that, as I generally despise Fheal spam unless I'm raid healing as Disc (and even then...). But reading through the thread, it seems like most disc priests do indeed spam Fheal on tanks.

 

Nurru

You're not doing the math correctly. PWS already gains a significant percentage of your spellpower, and you're applying IPWS incorrectly.

Assuming 2000 Spell Power:
(2230 + (2000 * (.8 + .4))) * 1.15 = 5784, which is roughly what I saw when I had manly pyro me the other night to test.

< Aislinana> Why would it be my job to sleep with vontre? Don't I have standards?

 

karlusdavius

Blizzard stated that borrowed time is working as intended, as penance has an instant first tick and is classed as an instant base cast time. Therefor we get a very nice spike healing buff over two spells as long as the first is penance.

Regarding divine aegis, I personally think that allowing the effect to stack isn't a bad thing if it is somehow capped. The problem of stacking discipline priests has always been there since we became viable healers because of weakened soul, however even if divine aegis could stack, it would still be a bad idea to stack them. Since it is classed as a buff, the only divine aegis that would be active is the priest with the highest spell power. In terms of capping the stack to a number, maybe the cap could be set at 20% of our maximum mana.

If this did happen it wouldn't push us in any other gear direction than were already going and could accompdate a full critical penance if it occurrd.

 

Lytewish

Ok, I follow your numbers except for the .8 can you tell me what this number represents?

I got:

2230 = base PWS
2000 = SPP
.8 = ?
.4 = BT
1.15 = IPWS

Thanks!

 

Cael

As Disc spec, I'm currently pushing 30% crit in raid when healing a tank with Weakened Soul.

I recall earlier, though, Constantius mentioning that going beyond 25% crit would be of concern. So as Disc spec, how much crit is too much?

 

Nurru

.8 is roughly the ridiculous spell power coefficient the ability seems to be getting. I could be wrong as well, but it ends up matching the numbers I saw when testing.

< Aislinana> Why would it be my job to sleep with vontre? Don't I have standards?

 

• constantius

Naw, it's not a matter of concern, esp. for Disc. The only restriction I placed on crit limits was that I also wanted to hit ~ 21% haste, *then* stack crit as high as you want (while keeping spellpower high).

As far as PW:S goes, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it benefit from Twin Disciplines as well? That might explain part of the abnormally high coefficient for an instant-cast spell.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

dbresq

Ridicule me if I'm wrong, but I just assumed the most time effective way to gauge potential absorption on PW:S was to equip the glyph and extrapolate the glyph heal for the full absorb potential. For example with my gear it's healing around 1.25k raid buffed so I'm expecting over 6k damage absorption. That’s going out on a limb and assuming the glyph heal is not modified by talents. Seeing as Aegis won’t proc when it crits I feel secure enough in that assumption.