I was wondering when someone would start reducing themselves to use my account's progress as their evidence for argument without any empirical knowledge. Congratulations on finding a priest who doesn't have GS or DP and helped some friends do BS 3's without a single PvP talent, let alone pushback prevention for my heals for points. Don't even need a story for raid achievements, as it doesn't pertain to the discussion (and doubt anyone wants to hear it), nor even reinforces where I pulled out a L2P card anywhere. Or did the fact that I was a NE male settle the matter then and there? Honestly, is anyone on this topic going to show some maturity, or have I been mistaken this entire time? I have just as much experience to be able to comment.

As to the Lightwell scenario:

The 10 second 30K to 40K damage cumulatively occurs every 1 second, 2 seconds, or 5 seconds. If it's every 5 seconds, you can just use bandages instead. Everyone should have about well over 20,000 health, which would mean after two seconds of either tick of the remaining scenarios, then your Lightwell renew just got busted. That's about 12500 healed damage, assuming your DPS used their infallible human senses to time the Lightwell perfectly. Then again, you would have survived 30K damage without the Lightwell's renew tick, and wouldn't have survived 40K damage with it, unless your healers started to heal after the 10 second silence, which was actually reduced to a 7 second silence by Concentration Aura.

As for me not having Lightwell, it's simply because I chose 3% more Intellect instead. Don't let me catch you commenting on a Discipline priest, or I might have to use this post as your precedent. As Lambi said and as I have said, in 10 mans it is definitely worth it and I have noted to myself how at those times, if Lightwell was available, it would have been more helpful than 3% Intellect would have been. For your newly revised opinion on how having others use Lightwell isn't worth it, well, I'm just going to let you have the last word on that one and agree to disagree, because I doubt I can change your mind, nor really need to in the whole scheme of things.

Those look to be the right numbers but indeed you purchased the wrong one.

While the [Disguise of the Kumiho] is overall better. There are still yet better cloaks than both, I'd suggest waiting for those.

The better cloaks are as follows:

[Cape of the Unworthy Wizard] - Kel'thuzad (25 man)
[Pennant Cloak] - Sartharion (25 man)

Arguably these two as well:
[Shawl of the Old Maid] - Naxx zone drop (25 man)
[Shroud of Luminosity] - Naxx zone drop (25 man)

Our regular priest posters have usually shown maturity so please do not bring that into the mix. You say you have just as much experience to be able to comment yet this thread consistently says how poor certain things are (ie. socketing for mp5) yet you do that. If you are going to argue strongly for something, I recommend you avidly spec for it.

The fact of the matter is. Lightwell is fine and dandy in practice (hell I even accidentally spec'd it last night), but when it comes to actually using it the spell is abysmal. Comment all you want about how to learn to use it and what not, but chances are if your raiding members are anything like the ones in my guild they haven't used a lightwell in ~2 years? It is hard to train them.

Sure there are fights where it is useful, hell there are fights where it is outstanding. Does that warrant you getting it? No, because chances are if someone is down health and they think they're going to die a Healthstone or a Health potion comes first and if they can't even do those, they probably won't click a lightwell.

I am in full belief that Lightwell is a great talent, and that it can be used properly for some very good outcomes. However, in the current 25 man content, even 10 man content, there is not yet a fight where lightwell over simplifies the encounter; and until an encounter is made where it does, you won't see DPS wanting (or remembering) to use it.

Oi So i should not use Rating Buster then, because based on it it was the better purchase...do you think a gm might be able to give me the emblems back? :/

Try and get the badges back and get the Kumiho cloak. Rating buster doesn't seem to account for spirit properly, and even though the cloaks Sinndir mentioned are "better", I think Kumiho is worth having around for when you want to max both spirit and haste.

Just to be sure, "Lightwell is fine and dandy in practice ..." or "... when it comes to actually using it, the spell is abysmal", you meant "in theory", right?

How can you argue it's outstanding in some fights and, at the same time, argue it is not worth getting it? Are you talking about redistributing talents in between boss fights? Because in that case, i really want to know what other talent is so amazingly good that you can't spare a point.


Nice. Because lightwell does not over simplify any encounter, it is not worth specing it? And as you said above, its hard to train your DPS to use it and "you won't see DPS wanting (or remembering) to use it" anyway. So they would probably not use it in the case, where it would over simplify the encounter, right? You must have a very low opinion of your fellow raiders.

And saying the talent is only worth specing into, if it over simplifies an encounter sure is a very high standard. Makes me really wonder for which talent that is true at all.

To summarize your post, you don't like lightwell. Fine. Was there anything else? The 'reasons' you gave for not wanting to spec it seem weak to me.

Stop arguing about Lightwell. It's moronic. We went over the arguments for Lightwell when we first got it, when it was buffed, when we reworked talents in T6 content, in Sunwell, in 3.0, and now. It's boring. Move on.

[e] You're not wrong, Lambi, but when the 'discussion' turns into a circular argument with half the people going "LIGHTWELL IS GUD OMG" and the other half going "NO, LIGHTWELL SUXXORS", it's time to move on. We're not arguing theorycraft here; people are arguing over whether it's reasonable to ask your raiders to L2P when it comes to an interesting side ability we have. Which is not the purpose of the thread.

Since I agree with Nid and we need to get away from ligthwell. If you want further explainations private message me.

I meant, Lightwell is great in theory. But the practical uses of it on fights are poor. I say it is outstanding on some fights because, well it honestly is. Take Sapphiron for example; put the lightwell where your tank is standing -or- where you are collapsing, it works for both. I argue it is not worth getting because if you have lightwell for encounters, good for you. If you don't, no one cares you're still going to beat the fight because you can do them with 4 healers, lightwell isn't going to make a difference. Thus, it is good and all in theory, but not in practice.

My opinion of my raiders is fine, we have exceptional DPS. The problem is they want to DPS, not worry about where a lightwell is, find it, de-target to click it then move back to DPSing. Why? Because you don't need lightwell, so they shouldn't use it. And no it isn't the same for all talents. You need talents, but lightwell is not needed because there is zero encounters that currently call for it. Do you need all the talents... no, but you need talent X to get to the ones that actually help you heal; if you want lightwell to be one, by all means take it.

To summarize my previous post. Lightwell is great 'in theory', but is poor in practice. My raiders have healthstones first, then potions, and if they have to use a third outside source aside from direct heals (via the 4 healing classes) our healers are doing something wrong. My healers are also quite good, and there is no reason for the need for lightwell.


I think Nid means, the Lightwell discussion has been done before and it really hasn't changed. Unless I'm missing something, my underlined portion at the end seems to be what lightwell is.

Even if this seems a bit obvious, I've been meaning to add this tid-bit to this thread for a little while now. A tip to the future creators of [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]: if you choose the +intellect option and intend to keep your spirit a bit higher than your intellect while not in a raid, it begins to become increasingly troublesome to do so as you pick up your choices of best-in-slot gear. Without jewelcrafting (which I'm nearly about to drop a profession for), I'm getting to the point where my intellect might even surpass my raid-buffed spirit.

Keep in mind, this is all considering you would prefer not to wear a +spirit trinket in your other trinket slot. Right now, I would prefer to wear a +spell power trinket, but am unable to do so. Granted, this might be rectified when a wand with spirit on it finally manages to drop, but until then... a word of caution!

My opinion on lightwell is this-

1. it makes it easier on the healer if people are using it. Oh sure, I can heal awesome. But a lightwell is a healing mechanic that I don't even have to pay attention to. If nobody uses it, no big deal. If people actually use it, that's healing that I didn't have to pay attention to.

2. Warlocks LOVE lightwell. It's perfectly designed for them, since they can lifetap to their heart's content and I don't have to bother topping them off.

3. I found out this week that during Maexxna's web snare, the tank can click the lightwell. This is a very good thing, especially during the enrage. (yeah the tank may tank enough damage to remove the lightwell tick, but if he doesn't it just helps since everyone's stunned)

4. At worst, I can drop a lightwell on a tank and he has a little extra healing on him. Sure it's not a ton, but it's a little bit of healing that's effectively free.


I guess overall my main like for lightwell is the fact that it makes my life stressful. Anything that benefits me without me having to pay attention to it is a good thing, and makes healing more fun. It's comparable to having a trinket with an on-equip effect instead of a on-use effect. I have enough things to worry about on some fights that I don't want extra things to pay attention to.

In the options menu you can configure rating buster to display out-of-5-second-rule regen as a separate stat. That will give you a much better idea of how much comparable regen two items provide. By default it only shows inside-5-second-rule regen.

That's something I noticed recently: You CAN click on the lightwell while stunned, noticed that when I tried to solo an elite in Storm Peaks.

And as for the best in slot necklace, you might want to consider this: [Life-Binder's Locket]

Yes, from a Holy point of view MP/5 is quite inferior to Spirit. From a Disc point of view they are much more equivalent though. And there are fights in which MP/5 beats Spirit, simply because Disc can't get out of FSR as often as Holy. In fact on some fights not at all. If that happens Spirit only gives the Meditation regen and nothing else. In that case MP/5 will return more mana per item point.

From my Disc point of view I value MP/5 and Spirit about equally. I don't care much about them. My regen comes from Rapture and Replinishement. Sadly there aren't many pieces that have neither Spirit or MP/5 and if they drop then they usually go to dps.

I do not exactly agree with the FSR rule that many claim we can do as holy. I cast almost 100% of the time, all the time. If there is no healing to be done, then I'm putting DoT's up on the boss or holy fire/smite spamming. Sure, as Holy we have a few outs (of FSR) when it comes to gaining clearcasts and following with an inner focus, which is on cooldown.

Once your tanks reach a nice gear level, a Disc priest could just as easily drop FSR than a Holy priest. I find some good communication with my healers to be a very useful wait of using [Spirit-World Glass] as well as getting ~10-15 seconds of regen time which is around 3-4k mana for me.

I use the [Life-Binder's Locket], gemming with a [Quick Autumn's Glow] and I find it to be a very good neck.

I also use the life binders with a haste gem. I usually raid as disc but even when I go holy its a pretty beastly neckpeice.



I can also agree with the use of Spirit-World Glass. Usually I run out of mana quicker than our other tank healer(usually a pally and/or druid) and once i see my Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon card proc, (which is still an amazing trinket really) ill use SWG then, keep casting, when it wears out ill call "mana napping" over vent, take a 5 second break, then pop inner focus / GH and continue my normal rotations.


I really want to get the spirit greatness card and soul of the dead to see what works best in unison. If anyone actually has the soul trinket id love some input on it (mainly for disc).

(sorry for the no item-linking, first post and I couldnt find how to do it >.> I assume it has somthing to do with this item Code Tag thing but I didnt want to not do it right and then look dumb bahahah)

Soul has the crit rating (duh) and the mana back proc is around ~100mp5 for aoe heavy fights (or if disc). 900 mana back, 45s icd if I remember correctly... the numbers are already posted earlier.

Edit: For my playstyle on an average of all fights I proc the trinket every ~55 seconds giving the trinket ~82mp5. I've got Spirit World Glass, Je Tze's Bell, that dragon trinket with 10x 18 spirit and the Soul trinket we've been talking about and as a holy priest that likes to play with the 5sr I definitely prefer Je Tze's Bell and the 180 spi dragon for the current content.

[Forethought Talisman] dropped last night, and we all went ... "uhhhh". It's a shame it's so badly itemized. Replace that stupid healing proc with a regen proc, and it'd be awesome. As it currently stands, I can't see anything being better balanced than Je'Tze's: just hoping the BoE change means I can spend some of my gold and get one asap when 3.0.8 hits Live servers.

Can you post the source from where Replenishment gets changed to affect Base mana? Right now, the only change to Mana Regen I know of is from Judgement of Wisdom, which is getting the change you mention.

Haven't heard anything about and it would be a huge change. Sure I would have heard something before now.

Just want to mention how good [Mercurial Alchemist Stone] is holding up vs the current trinkets. Even vs [Je'Tze's Bell]. I'd take 50 haste + 59sp over 106sp or around the same. Proc on Je'Tse worth around 25mp5 at a proc per min. The equip bonus on alch stone if you can manage a [Potion of Nightmares] (These only take you out for 6 secounds much better than the old Dreamless sleep) over a 6 min fight is 30mp5 and 24mp5 with a [Runic Mana Potion].

I think my Ideal combo as an alch would be [Soul of the Dead] + [Mercurial Alchemist Stone] with [Spirit-World Glass] in your pack for fights that can make good use out of it.

Can you please post your reference regarding this? I have not seen anything of the sort in the patch notes, and as the other posters have stated, that's a pretty substantial change that I'm pretty confident I would have heard of by now.

They are better than the old Dreamless Sleep potions and indeed I (who also have a Mercurial Alchemist Stone) used them in a number of boss fights, but have since concluded that the Runic Mana Potion is a better bet unless you really want to gamble your life. Problem with the Potion of Nightmares is that any damage will interrupt the effect, *and* damage you take is doubled. So when I tried to use one on the Sapphiron fight I only got one tick, and I've been instagibbed on at least one other fight from the increase to damage taken. Maybe on Patchwerk if the other healers can stand you sitting out for six seconds.
But even with just 24mp5 effective from the Alchemist Stone I agree that it's very, very good.

I'm pretty sure you are thinking of the Palidan change. Although when I asked GC on the healing forums about the ETA on Priest talent trees? He seemed to think that all the regen of all healing classes was just a little to easy right now.

"but if we're reaching a point where people can just stack Spirit or Int and not worry about regen, then Meditation starts to look a lot less mandatory" -Ghostcrawler

He also stated,
"The whole mechanic for mana regen (for all classes) is something we're not entirely happy with."

I've also read where he stated he wasn't happy with how replenishment was working but never an exact change.

I could have swore that I read somewhere on MMO-Champion that the announcement of Je'tze's Bell was indeed false and that it would still be a bop world drop?

Confirm/Deny?

Either way, all I know is that I need a replacement for my Ribbon of Sacrifice 2.0. It's nice for the spirit but I rarely ever use it unless I expect a lot of incoming damage and I can get the buff on a lot of people before hand.