WotLK Healing Compendium v3.0 [theorycraft, specs, etc] - Page 99

Promethia · 01/24/09, 4:09 AM

Originally Posted by Kopalec

Perhaps I'm viewing this in the wrong way, but one perceivable advantage for shields, is they gain greater value on high armor targets. (for physical damage anyway, and magical for DK's) My example being the difference between shielding yourself with and without Inner Fire while farming. So as a Disc. priest, your 7k shield doesn't actually grow in size, but does take longer to be used up.

True, but health from heals also benefits from the high armor (or resistance).... Sadly I've seen first hand that my health disappears much faster than the tank's. Maybe I can say that I was just trying to experimentally verify the effect of armor. Yeah, that's it.

Tainter · 01/24/09, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Sinndir

I hate to beat a dead horse but that is not how the Patchwerk hateful strike mechanics work anymore. We have none of our melee remove stamina buffs, dip into the go, we heal up Ret Pally's using Seal of Blood, etc.

The mechanic is as such:
3 tanks get on the aggro table of Patch, 1st is your MT, 2nd & 3rd take hatefuls. The hateful strikes hit whoever of those two tanks (2nd & 3rd on aggro) has the lowest current health. If they are both low (say 6000 & 9000 HP) Patchwerk will not hit a melee at 20k hp, instead he will hateful the 9000 HP tank. The hateful strikes also give aggro to the three players 1st through 3rd on the aggro list.

Shields are useful anytime you 'suspect' someone is going to take a spike of damage (Sartharion/Malygos Breath) or if someone has just taken a large amount of damage and you instantly shield them while another healer (or six) can land a quick heal before they are hit by anything else.

Alright, got that wrong. But if you wanted to do it with only 1 hurtful soaker, say for chasing WWS records, then there would be no point in shielding your melee who's 3rd on the aggro list. He'd die either way if the soaker doesn't get topped up quickly enough.

Well basically my point was that shielding someone is a waste of time and mana if the person would die anyway, despite being shielded.

Zaq · 01/24/09, 1:49 PM

That's just circle logic. Of course it's a waste if they'd just die anyway, the same is true of a full heal or anything you could do. That's really stupid reasoning.

Thistlebee · 01/24/09, 6:28 PM

Great news for disc priests

"Q u o t e:
Are there any mechanics of the tree that might get tweaked soon?
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Yes. Spirit and Penance come to mind. No, they're not nerfs. -Ghost Crawler

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Q u o t e:
I've also heard that some Disc Priests complain that it doesn't scale as well as Holy at extremely high gear levels. Is this an issue that is being looked at, or is it not considered significant?
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There are no extremely high gear levels in the game so it's a little premature to worry about. We do need to make sure Discipline's tools scale with spellpower and other stats as do other healers. -Ghost Crawler

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Q u o t e:
Last and perhaps most importantly, is there any possibility of either getting separate Disc armor sets, or set bonuses/stats that appeal to Holy and Disc equally? Currently, I find the Holy sets to be great but not ideal: I'm aware they were not designed for my specc.
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Bonuses we might do. Sets are unlikely. A big direction for us this time around was to drop fewer unique types of armor, but let players customize them towards their own play style with gems and enchants. "-Ghost Crawler

Sinndir · 01/24/09, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by constantius

XI c. Spell Coefficients
Holy (14/57/0):
Talents that matter: Twin Disciplines, Improved Renew, Spiritual Healing, Empowered Healing, Divine Providence. CoH. Ignoring Test of Faith.

Renew:
Prayer of Mending:
Flash Heal:
Greater Heal:
Circle of Healing:
Prayer of Healing:
Power Word: Shield:

Disc (57/14/0): (5/5 Holy Spec, no Imp Renew)
Talents that matter: Twin Disciplines, Focused Power, Grace, Imp PW:S, Borrowed Time. Penance.

Renew:
Prayer of Mending:
Flash Heal:
Greater Heal:
Penance:
Prayer of Healing:
Power Word: Shield:

Has anyone done enough testing to get concrete numbers for these?

healingtears · 01/25/09, 1:48 AM

I just got my alt priest to 80. I was wondering about spirit vs MP5.
Say a Neck has 34 spirit, the other one has 38 int but 13 mp5. Which should I go for?

Corazu · 01/25/09, 3:47 AM

Originally Posted by healingtears

I just got my alt priest to 80. I was wondering about spirit vs MP5.
Say a Neck has 34 spirit, the other one has 38 int but 13 mp5. Which should I go for?

If you're holy, spirit, if you're disc, int.

Holy gets more spirit out of the neck, and also spellpower from the spirit on it. Whereas for disc, spirit is largely useless and int is pretty much the best.

Edit: As was mentioned below, there's more to it then just just int > spirit for a given spec; it was late and I was lazy on my post.

Mp5 is generally very good, for either spec, but, as was noted, it's very expensive in terms of itemization.

Intellect is good for regen since it scales the amount you gain from spirit (I'm not sure on the exact math), while also giving you more mana to work with and crit to boot. Since discipline gains very little from spirit (aside from 30% of it while casting) because unlike holy, discipline will generally not have a lot of time spent OO5SR; holy has tricks to get OO5SR (clearcasting, inner focus, SoL, stopcasting). Discipline revolves around constantly healing or casting spells; Shields, penance, flash heal, and keeping grace up. This is much more true in cases of aoe damage - holy has CoH to help deal with it, which will usually proc a SoL; Discipline doesn't have many aoe tools outside of the party, and thus must single target cast to top up targets (also ProM) - it generally comes down to that Discipline is much more like a paladin and is chain casting, whereas holy can end up with some (very powerful) OO5SR mana regen.

To top it off, Holy gets spellpower from spirit, in addition to the regen (both discipline and holy have talents to increase the amount of spirit by 15%) so it generally makes spirit a more attractive option than Mp5, especially since at higher gear levels you won't have a lot of issues with mana regen, and spirit gives you more throughput.

Lazare · 01/25/09, 5:04 AM

Originally Posted by Corazu

If you're holy, spirit, if you're disc, int.

Holy gets more spirit out of the neck, and also spellpower from the spirit on it. Whereas for disc, spirit is largely useless and int is pretty much the best.

Not exactly. Holy and Disc get the same amount of spirit from the neck. In general, for Holy int is better regen than spirit, but the spell power makes up for it, making int and spirit roughly equivalent. For Disc spirit is junk. Both specs love mp5, it's just too expensive. In this particular example, 38 int would beat 34 spirit for pretty much anyone even without the mp5. With the mp5 as well there's no comparison.

The first post in this thread explains the mechanics fairly clearly, I think.

sadisticmgt · 01/25/09, 3:17 PM

On my priest, I actually try to time my gheal or fheal so that I do a tiny bit of overhealing. Since I am speced into Serendipity this helps me with my mana, while effectively healing the tank or injured dps. In this respect I see absolutely no problem with overhealing a target.

Abygail · 01/25/09, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sinndir

Has anyone done enough testing to get concrete numbers for these?

I found these, and with some preliminary testing they seemed accurate to me but feel free to correct this if it's wrong.

Ability Name & Spell Power Coefficient

Healing Abilities
Binding Heal 80.68% (100.68% with Empowered Healing)
Circle of Healing 40.20%
Desperate Prayer 80.68%
Flash Heal 80.68% (100.68% with Empowered Healing)
Greater Heal 161.35% (201.35% with Empowered Healing)
Holy Nova (Healing) 30.35%
Prayer of Healing 80.68%
Prayer of Mending 80.68% (per charge)
Renew 188% (37.60% per charge)

Offensive Abilities
Devouring Plague 18.49% (per tick)
Holy FireDD 57.11%
Holy FireDoT 2.40% (per tick)
Holy Nova (Damage) 16.06%
Mana Burn 0.0%
Mind Blast 42.80%
Mind Flay 25.70% (per tick)
Mind Sear 71.43%
Shadowfiend 65.0%
Shadow Word: Death 42.96%
Shadow Word: Pain 18.29% (per tick), 110% (overall)
Smite 71.40%
Vampiric Touch 0.0% (per tick)

I provided the following example on my guild's priest forum that might be helpful to the new priests. The experienced ones already know all of this

Example using GH9 (3950-4590 healing) with a spellpower (or HSE) of 2071 and assuming 5/5 Empowered Healing and a SPC of 201%

Base healing amt + (SPC * HSE)
3950 + (2.01 * 2071) = 8112
4590 + (2.01 * 2071) = 8752

Then don't forget to add the benefit from Spiritual Healing to the end (any deep holy priest should have this maxed at 5/5) which gives you:

3950 + (2.01 * 2071) = 8112 * 1.10= 8923
4590 + (2.01 * 2071) = 8752 * 1.10= 9627

So your max rank GH with 2071 spellpower and 5/5 Empowered Healing and 5/5 Spiritual Healing should heal between 8923-9627.

Just remember spellpower is essentially what used to be called Healing Spells & Effects (HSE) and everything that increases your healing/spellpower will go there including racials, Spiritual Guidance, food and elixer/flask buffs, and raid buffs like Gift of the Wild, Blessings of Kings, etc.

Also, for certain spells don't forget to add in other talent modifiers prior to using the spell coefficients. Examples for healing spells CoH and PoM are modified by both Twin Disciplines and Divine Providence. Prayer of Healing and Binding Heal get modified by Divine Providence only.

christos0b · 01/25/09, 6:01 PM

Am i the only one one (as holy) that finds the 4/4 heroes-valorous set a bit useless ?
I'm thinking of dumping my gloves or my pants (valorous) for haste equivalents shall i ?

Originally Posted by sadisticmgt

On my priest, I actually try to time my gheal or fheal so that I do a tiny bit of overhealing. Since I am speced into Serendipity this helps me with my mana, while effectively healing the tank or injured dps. In this respect I see absolutely no problem with overhealing a target.

And , yes like that i find overhealing (a bit) is useful or at least not that harmful

Starfire · 01/25/09, 10:39 PM

Really should read through the thread.... the merits of both the 2-piece and 4-piece bonus have been covered at least twice. And perhaps even thrice and more.

The short answer is; the 2-piece bonus potentially saves mana, but it's not very useful for holy although it's slightly more useful (apparently) for Disc. The 4-piece bonus is over-shadowed by our increase usage of flash heal and binding heal at the expensive of greater heal.

constantius · 01/26/09, 12:37 AM

I'm definitely keeping 2-piece T7 for the duration, simply because when I *do* use the bonus, it's awesome. And T7 helm / T7 gloves are very close to BiS given my desire to keep haste above 12%. Obviously there are upgrades, but I don't like the way it drops haste from the helm slot (in favour of crit).

Incoherence · 01/26/09, 6:31 AM

Originally Posted by sadisticmgt

On my priest, I actually try to time my gheal or fheal so that I do a tiny bit of overhealing. Since I am speced into Serendipity this helps me with my mana, while effectively healing the tank or injured dps. In this respect I see absolutely no problem with overhealing a target.

That's sort of not the question at hand. The question about overhealing generally goes like this: Assume you have a tank taking large spikes: for example, heroic Patchwerk. What is your threshold for canceling a heal, and when do you cancel? More generally, what is a reasonable percentage of overheal? And with particular regard to discipline healing, how do you account for "wasted" shields, and what is a reasonable percentage of shielding wasted?

In other words, it's an argument about mana (canceling heals which will be obviously wasted) vs. safety (the chance that 0.2 seconds after you cancel that heal, the tank takes a large spike and you're unprepared to react).

I'm beginning to think this might be a fertile topic for a separate thread entirely; I mean, we have this nice new forum and no one ever posts new threads.

Plitschplatsch · 01/26/09, 8:18 AM

Constantius, i always wondered where the 12% haste comes from? Is that a personal preference or is there an advantage with game mechanics (gheal as fast boss swing timer or something like that?) behind it?