Pillowtalk

Rather than use the BT buff on an dps or OT that probably doesn't need the healing asap, I like to take advantage of the fact that instant cast spells do not consume the BT buff but still gives the benefit of lowering your gcd time. Therefore, after a pws -> penance combo, if and only if more throughput is NOT required, I will cast both PoM and renew on the MT, cooldowns permitting. Anyone with a decent amount of haste will have their gcd at 1.0s with BT up. After these two casts the pws cd will be up so that is also available at the 1.0 gcd speed if you deem neccessary. After all this is completed or enough damage has presented itself I will consume the BT buff with a gheal/fheal. For me, this appears to be the most efficient way to get instant casts out between the larger casted/channeled heals.

 

Cyraine

Hello all, thank you for all your input it's been very helpful. I've been wondering since Wrath came out if Rating Buster is still accurate for holy priests as it was before. I've noticed that for me it's converting spirit to sp and mp5 by dividing it approximately in 4. Does anyone have any information or opinions on this?
Thank you.

Edit: I realized right after posting this that there is probably a separate forum for addons. My apologies.

 

Starfire

So what you're saying is; in order to keep yourself busy you basically spam your raid with PWS/Renew and you occasionally Penance the tank and cast Prayer of Mending?

 

Tainter

I don't think it's quite right.

The number of items without Int is tiny. So usually it's a non-decision. But you imply to gem for Int which I would really advise against for Disc. There's simply no need. Rapture is so amazing that mana problems are rare. With Replinishement almost non-existent.

Spell power again is almost always a non-decision. It's an all gear anyway. But generally I'd say it's the most valuable stat for Disc, that's what I tend to gem for. Gives output, efficiency and rapture! Awesome.

Spirit and MP/5 again can't really be avoided. They are about equal for Disc, with MP/5 perhaps slightly ahead, but it doesn't really matter, because there are no mana problems. I don't seek them out. I grudgingly accept that they are on my gear if I want it or not. The choice is usually: Hit or Spirit / MP/5. That's pretty obvious.

I value haste above crit. Point per point haste gives quite a bit more output than crit. Crits often horribly overheal. Rapture working off effective healing means that crit overheals aren't more efficient. And finally because Aegis is still bugged crit doesn't return near as much mana as it should. My opinion on the matter may change sometime in the near future.

At the moment I want more output and haste and spell power give just that.

If you can't join them?
Beat them.

 

Tainter

Are you sure this is true? When I tested it last time BT did not speed up instant casts. It has also been stated by Blizz that only cast time spells benefit (and consume the buff). That is why Penance not consuming the buff is not considered a bug.

That's what I found from my own research a while ago:
http://elitistjerks.com/988013-post302.html

I'd only ever hold on to BT if I know I'll cast a Greater Heal before it fades. Otherwise it's Flash Heal time.

If you can't join them?
Beat them.

 

Imua

As a fresh 80, going into raids, you WILL run into mana problems, even as disc, even with Rapture. You need to pick up int, imo, until you're at least 21k or so mana. Then you won't really have mana problems, or at least not intractable ones.

Once you get to that comfortable place, you should look more for throughput - SP, haste, or crit. (Crit affects your regen as well)

So it depends where you are on the gear curve. When you start out in Naxx, pick up int. As you get pieces, then go for the other stats. Having one stats weight system is a bad idea right now, for both disc and holy. (imo of course)

Again, though, the caveat is that the content is pretty easy for the most part. Who knows what's going to happen in Ulduar. If you start seeing 10 minute mana intensive fights, then things are going to have to change.

 

Lhyssa

I still value crit more when I am Disc because of Inspiration procs, as well as the other minor benefits (and if it is effective healing, you get more mana returned). DA may be bugged, but the damage reduction is still useful and the minor mana you'd get back isn't that much. With the vast amount of spells I cast, and the three procs of Penance, Inspiration is up a lot more on my target than when I'm Holy. I see the argument for Haste as an MT healer, both to get them to land faster (and therefore increase throughput) and to avoid heal sniping for more Rapture returns, and it is worth stacking, but I still value crit a bit more.

 

Ilumina

I am normally Holy specced but have a few question regarding Shadow priests priority in spells. From what I have understood so far the priority looks as this (when you are done with the opening sequence):

1Refresh VT as priority number 1
2 Mindblast as priority number 2
3 Refresh Devouring Plague if 1 and 2 are done
4 Mindflay if 1 and 2 are done and Mindblast is on cool-down
5 Shadow Word Death

But reading through some disussions I can understand that some prefere SWD over MF.
Is it possible to give a clear answer to which one is best?

Also will that change with patch 3.0.8 since SWD only will give 1 SW and MF will give 2?

And last - After 3.0.8 how will the opening sequence look then?

 

Tainter

You can't "pick up Int". The best you could do is gem for Int. Every single caster item has Int. There simply is no decision to be made. If you're going raiding in blues, then every single caster item will be an upgrade.

That aside I went Naxx10 (which I find less forgiving than Naxx25) with 18k mana and a measly 1700 or so spell power. I never saw any replinishement and except for the occasional mana potion I needed little else.

I tried Holy a few times and I was struggling badly with mana and wished I had different gems and Replinishement. But as Disc the thought: "I need more mana!" almost never occured to me.

So my experience directly contradicts your assumption it seems. That aside Ulduar has nothing to do with raiding as a fresh 80 obviously. And finally before I run into mana problems as disc all the holy priests (gemmed for Int or not) will have much bigger issues. At least our Holy Priests always run dry first.

If you can't join them?
Beat them.

 

rooj

I just want to confirm something that seems clear with the tooltip.

Using pain suppression right before combat will have no effect on threat at all, correct? 0 Threat is still 0 threat, correct?

With such a small cooldown, it seems like a no brainer to start a fight with PS up. 40% dmg reduction for 6-7 seconds early one seems to be a nice plus with little downside.

 

Shaejin

I have not tested this independently. However, my understanding of PS spell mechanics is that it does not reduce cumulative threat ... but instead reduces all threat generated over its 8 second duration. So casting it as the tank is establishing initial aggro would be a bad idea.

 

bbartlog

This is hyperbole. You are right of course that Blizzard has made a lot of our choices for us. But there are still a lot of gear choices that will involve trading off Int for something else. Just off the top of my head:

- Darkmoon Card: Greatness. Do I want it (for +90 Int) or do I get something else? How much better is it than other possible choices (e.g. Spark of Life)?
- Bracer enchant: Spirit, Intellect or spellpower?
- Blizz has set things up so that if you equip a staff you get more stats (Int, Spi, Stam) while using a MH/OH combination will typically get you more spellpower and possibly other ratings (crit/haste). So this is another case where we can gain or lose Int.
- Sometimes if you're just starting to raid you'll end up with the option of equipping PvP gear that has some advantages but is missing Int (look at the Hateful cloth gear at ilvl 200).

So while I'm in partial agreement with you (look at how consistent the Int values are across all the Ilvl 200 purple cloth waists, for example), there are still significant options.

 

Nurru

In regards to the card, an Int proc isn't that useful. If you really want a sigificant amount of int in a trinket slot I would recommend [Figurine - Sapphire Owl]. I keep one in my bags with two [Brilliant Dragon's Eye] for encounters where I feel I need the regen. This is assuming Disc though, since you'd be crazy to stack int in such a manner as Holy instead of using something like [Spirit-World Glass].

< Aislinana> Why would it be my job to sleep with vontre? Don't I have standards?

 

rooj

Why wouldn't an Int proc be useful in combat? I understand why it wouldn't have been pre-regen change, but it seems to me that it would be at least as useful as the Spi proc, and moreso if you get replenish too.

 

bbartlog

True. My mention of the card is intended to illustrate the availability of gear choices that will give you more Int, not to recommend it unconditionally or to get advice on gear. As gear it would probably be best for a Holy priest who set himself up to get Int from the card but Spirit from the proc.

It's not useless, but a great deal of Int's value comes from the increase in the starting mana pool, so the proc is relatively less good than some others. If the Int proc increased returns from Shadowfiend (properly timed) it would actually be quite good.

 

• constantius

Just do the math. Assuming you have a fairly standard 1100 int / 1400 spirit raid-buffed (my current values, no flask), consider what a proc gets you.

300 intellect gives you an extra (with BoK) 4950 mana. Assuming 15 seconds of full Replenishment, and no weird Shadowfiend / Mana Tide returns, your total returns are (assuming 80% I5SR during):

5175 * 0.0025 * 15 = 186 mana + 80 mana from extra regen (Int increasing coefficient) = 266 mana.

300 spirit doesn't change your replenishment gains at all, but it gives an extra 320 Mp5 (OO5SR), which works out to 141 mana returned assuming 80% I5SR. However, the whole point of the spirit proc is to go OO5SR for at least one tick, which pushes it up to ~ 400+ Mana/Proc. Additionally, you gain 87 spellpower while it's up, which is semi-useful.

[e] @ Below: good point. That makes the procs effectively equal. You can either have <mana back> + 87 spellpower, or <mana back (in the presence of Replenishment)> + 2% crit.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

Morakk

The ~2% crit from the int proc isn't to be disregarded, either.

 

rooj

What I take out of that, is that the Int Proc for disc is definitely worthwhile, since we won't be getting the spell power buff from Spirit procs AND we can't rely on getting OFSR regen.

Now to gather the cards!

 

Morakk

Pretty much. It's close enough anyway that I don't go out of my way to eat spirit food, or use different consumables or anything to make sure I get one or the other. Either proc is good, and the trinket is good enough that I'm not bitter that neither spirit trinket has dropped once.

 

orbnubbins

Actually, the new testing and common practice show that SW: D should only be used situationally and not as part of your priority "rotation." Personally, I only use it when moving or when I have about a second before I need to do something else. The DPS gain from SW: D is minimal and the self damage can scare healers who don't realize that VE will top you off fairly quickly.

As far as the changes with 3.0.8 I doubt it will go live with MF giving 2 stacks of Shadow Weaving. The opening sequence should be something like VT, DP, MB, SW: D, MF, SW:P. It will take a couple of seconds longer to get the
stacks of Shadow Weaving up this way. If you really want you can clip the MF after you see it apply the stack.

*Edit for smilies.

 

Daedrian

In everything I have read, VE is not in any of the spell casting rotations. I know the spell does not produce any DPS what so ever, but doesn't it have uses as an AoE heal? If you're RAID is calling for AoE healing, and we have this spell available to provide some assistance, shouldn't it be cast first in the rotation on fights where AoE heals would be the most benefit?

 

◊ Cadfael

Back in pre-3.0 VE was very threat critical and you could easily threat cap yourself with it's use in certain situations. Now it has changed but the healing on the group is relatively small. The self-heal is still big but since you don't use SW that much anymore VE also has lost a bit of its use. The healing amount on the group is too small to have to prioritize this spell high. But some help is always nice so weave it in when you can (moving, mostly).

 

Nurru

VE provides excellent returns for a single GCD per minute. Unless the fight is a complete tank and spank like Patchwerk you should be casting it.

< Aislinana> Why would it be my job to sleep with vontre? Don't I have standards?

 

rooj

I am sorry to repost this question, but I wasn't sure whether the answer that i was given was consensus or tested out.

Does Pain Suppression give an instant 5% drop in threat and have no effect on threat generation for the dmg reduction buff? Or does it also affect the ability to generate threat for the duration of the buff?

I can't really think of a way to test this since threat generation isn't really always constant when factoring dmg by the tanks, and 5% isn't always measurable.

 

◊ Cadfael

Target instantly loses 5% of current pre-existing threat on all mobs where he is on the threat table. Nothing more happens with regard to threat.

As for testing, there is the Blizzard threat information. Use the API or one of the new Blizzard API using threatmeters and just look for yourself if you doubt this. In most cases it's safe to drop it on the tank.