... grace (if you don't have a blessing of sanctuary)
I'm fairly sure that Grace/BoS were tested not long ago here and shown to stack with each other.
Originally Posted by Psilux
... Since the discipline priest deals alot with absorption, it's very under-represented on your wws as well as healing meters.
Some more suggestions not really touched on:
1. Look at their total casts. With disc efficiency as good as it is, there's really no reason to stop healing (unless they started DPSing, but if the fight is that easy, it's probably not worth analyzing the WWS for). In the WWS you linked, the disc priest's total number of heals looks low to me.
2. Check to make sure they're using all of their spells at least a bit. Ignoring Penance (due to the CD, and if they're not using that as Disc there's definitely something wrong), despite the fact that FH is more efficient and the fights are generally pretty easy to heal, there's still situations where using GH is wiser and less risky. (At least that's my opinion.) PoM and PoH should also appear (albeit much more rarely in the latter - primarily Loatheb).
3. In my experience, Disc will be much more up and down in WWS positions than most other classes. (I generally get stomped on the meters for Patchwerk, for instance.) The less actual healing there is to go around, generally, the worse Disc will look. HoTs (druids), CoH, or FoL (due to all of the haste) generally just get there first. However, some fights - Sapphiron or KT, for instance - have enough healing to go around that generally numbers will be much closer. I would use those more specifically to help measure performance.
Sapph in particular seems to be a good one at leveling the field, due to the fact that people are often spread out (thus AoE heals are less effective than they otherwise would be in such a situation) and so healers are often using comparable tools (FH-equivalents).
For comparison, this is our guild's last Naxx run:
Sapph in particular seems to be a good one at leveling the field
I don't think so. In the WWS you link it's true that you've passed the holy priest on the Sapphiron fight, but it looks to me like that's because this fight is farm status for you and you were trying while he wasn't. If everyone actually needs to push themselves holy priests will absolutely *bury* other healers on this fight, because PoM and CoH are so strong in the constant-damage-to-everyone scenario. Look at this WWS for comparison: http://wowwebstats.com/ubbarv1zkcs5i?s=17515-33999
This fight was about 50% longer than the one you linked, so of course more healing had to be done - but even after compensating for that, look at the number of PoM procs and CoH casts for the holy priest in this fight (me) versus the one in the WWS you linked. He was just treading water.
Interesting to see that many people seem to cast PoH. I almost never do since the cast time seems prohibitive to me as disc. Instead, I almost cast HN a couple of times if i need a group heal. It is instant, doesn't take away BT, and it has more chances to proc DA. Mostly though, it's because it is instant and so i get the benefit from MA.
Am i missing something? The HN glyph makes it pretty efficient.
Holy Nova base is 713-827 for 25% base mana and then the +40% from the glyph.
PoH for 48% base mana and for 2091-2209 but with a 3 second cast time.
PoH is slightly more efficient, but if mana isn't an issue, (which for most fights it isn't) i can get 3 HNs off in the time for a single PoH.
Interesting to see that many people seem to cast PoH. I almost never do since the cast time seems prohibitive to me as disc. Instead, I almost cast HN a couple of times if i need a group heal. It is instant, doesn't take away BT, and it has more chances to proc DA. Mostly though, it's because it is instant and so i get the benefit from MA.
Am i missing something? The HN glyph makes it pretty efficient.
Holy Nova base is 713-827 for 25% base mana and then the +40% from the glyph.
PoH for 48% base mana and for 2091-2209 but with a 3 second cast time.
PoH is slightly more efficient, but if mana isn't an issue, (which for most fights it isn't) i can get 3 HNs off in the time for a single PoH.
One advantage of prayer of healing that you didn't mention is it's much larger raidus. Also, you can't really get 3 holy novas off in the time of a prayer of healing. The GCD is 1.5 seconds. Prayer of healing is a 3 second cast. If you start casting holy novas at the same time you cast prayer of healing then, yes, you'll finish casting them at the same time, but you'll still be on global cooldown from the holy novas. It's more correct to say that you can cast a prayer of healing and another spell (renew/mending/flash/holy nova/shield) in the time you can cast 3 holy novas.
Assuming 25% haste (reasonable), a single PoH takes 2.4 seconds, and you can use a Holy Nova at the end (as mentioned above) to put you on GCD. With the same haste, assuming you cast at the start of our theoretical period, you can get off 3 Holy Novas, precisely.
So compare PoH to 2xHN, and the comparison is silly. There's no way HN even comes close to PoH for the throughput in that time frame.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
I don't think so. In the WWS you link it's true that you've passed the holy priest on the Sapphiron fight, but it looks to me like that's because this fight is farm status for you and you were trying while he wasn't. If everyone actually needs to push themselves holy priests will absolutely *bury* other healers on this fight, because PoM and CoH are so strong in the constant-damage-to-everyone scenario. Look at this WWS for comparison: WWS Loading...
This fight was about 50% longer than the one you linked, so of course more healing had to be done - but even after compensating for that, look at the number of PoM procs and CoH casts for the holy priest in this fight (me) versus the one in the WWS you linked. He was just treading water.
I would agree with your assessment; I should probably be more specific. My point wasn't 'Discipline priests should outheal Holy priests.' Even given identical healing 'arsenal' (that is, ignoring CoH), I would still generally expect Holy to put out higher numbers on a WWS. The only edge Disc has in numbers over Holy is 5% talented haste, which hypothetically reduces overheal, but I think that has a minor impact if any once IHC comes into play.
However, what Sapph has that many other fights don't is the fact that there is nearly always someone to heal. Contrast this to Patchwerk, where (as I mentioned in another thread already) I tend to be the 'floater' healer between the tanks keeping Grace up, PW:Sing before Hatefuls, and filling in gaps (usually with Penance) as needed. My numbers generally look terrible on that type of fight. Other fights tend to be so light on the healing that heal-sniping can have disproportionate and somewhat random effect on WWS numbers. In contrast, however, on Sapph assuming the healers in the raid are all trying equally (judge that how you will), I would expect the Discipline priest's healing to be on the lower side of the healer arc but not completely off. Disc can ProM to almost equal effect as Holy and, while they lack CoH, should by using FH be able to place near the Paladins as the healing style is similar (this assumes primarily party healing; if you primarily tank heal on that fight that's a different story, obviously).
In other words, Sapphiron can provide a useful yardstick to measure competence.
Has anyone tried to using an Illustration of the Dragon Soul? On paper it seems really good, 260 SP (200 after the nerf). Just hit levitate if it is about to fall off. Anybody out there with one and would like to share their experiences with it?
Hymn of Hope will give you 4 stacks of it. But in general I am not sure what you're asking for... It is what it is; 200 sp.
In regards to holy or disc priest, I imagine most of them pass on it to dpsers though.
Originally Posted by arison
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.
How much more healing output should a Holy Priest have ahead of a Disc Priest if I were to look at a WWS, assuming similar gear/skill? Basically I have no idea how to judge performance for our Disc Priest but the numbers I'm seeing are terribly low, I just don't know how much of an impact the Disc spells that don't show up as healing on WWS impact that (bubbles, etc).
I have found the best way for analyzing disc performance is to look at the healing received by the tank, assuming your disc priest is responsible for tank healing. Raid healers will always have much higher overall numbers than tank healers due to having more damage available to heal, so comparing the two isn't really fair or worthwhile.
This is a super important point that isn't talked about enough. Healing done is a rather poor metric in part because not all healing done is equally relevant. Aggregating all healing done into one big sum implicitly assumes every point of healing done has equal value -- that each point can be interchanged and compared as equal. That just isn't true, and we know it, but we continue to lump it all together since (I suppose) we more or less don't know what else to do.
I would agree that in particular "raid healing" and "tank healing" are not comparable statistics. They are different things, and so measures of them are different things too, and we shouldn't cross compare them.
Admittedly, it's a little hard to avoid that since all of the meters I know of combine multitarget heals and single target heals into one aggregate. It would be more useful to see single target HPS and multitarget HPS broken down as separate statistics, since both are relevant in different circumstance and I'm sure it would be more enlightening to see that spelled out explicity.
However, it is possible to look over healing received on tanks and at least get some idea of who is keeping the tank up. Of course, if your tank isn't dying, that's a much better measure of how your tank healing is going. Don't fix it if it isn't broken. On the other hand, if you're looking into cutting back on healers or changing the mix of healers that you have, you really should look at tank healing and raid healing separately and make sure you both roles adequately covered.
Originally Posted by rooj
PoH is slightly more efficient, but if mana isn't an issue, (which for most fights it isn't) i can get 3 HNs off in the time for a single PoH.
The range on PoH is often crucially important. The major downside of PoH I've seen is that it tends to get seriously sniped by chain heal, wild growth, and CoH. If not for that, I'd use it a lot more, even as a discipline priest (in 5 or even 10 mans, power infusion plus PoH spam "doesn't suck"). In heroics, PW: S --> penance on tank --> PoH is a nice combo after everyone has been blasted by something.
I did cast Guardian Spirit on a druid tank. He got a killing blow a few seconds later, but GS didn't seem to prevent this or bring him back to 50% health.
Is this a known bug?
I did cast Guardian Spirit on a druid tank. He got a killing blow a few seconds later, but GS didn't seem to prevent this or bring him back to 50% health.
Is this a known bug?
We don't run with a druid tank, but I am constantly having this problem with unholy DK tanks. It seems as if that ability takes precedence on a death event over the GS 50% ability, which had better not be working as intended. I've yet to see any mention of that in any of the 3.0.8 patch notes, however. It's at the point right now where I'm asking for other classes to MT rather than our DK simply because of that effect, since they have comparable gear more or less otherwise. We had more than a few wipes on Malygos25 coming out of Vortex that would have been easily prevented by GS if it functioned properly.
This issue is true for unholy DKs, druids, and holy priests right now - anything that causes you to shapeshift upon death breaks it. (Druids shift back to caster form when they die.)
Has anyone seen a confirmed report of the healing portion of Guardian Spirit being affected by any healing debuffs (mortal strike, etc.)? I've browsed the forums for quite some time now, and just noticed this in PvP. Sucks!
I'm getting back into healing after a long BC break (spent tanking) I've been doing some research and I was wondering if anyone knows the order in which damage is calculated and shields absorbed.
Take for instances I spec deep Disc, picking up DA, and Inspiration in Holy.
Lets say I have a PW:S up on the tank, critical heal and it pops DA & The armour buff from Inspiration.
Basically my understanding is as follows.
1) Damage Absorbed by shields is the amount of damage that would be caused after all mitigating effects eg: armour (inc. Inspiration), block etc.. are taken into account on that target.
2) Divine Aegis shields are absorbed before PW:S
3) Lastly, As DA doesn't stack, does it get replaced by the most recent crit. Ie: If a target had DA up, and I were to crit proc'ing another DA, would the most recent DA override the first, and if this is true, would it do so even if the 2nd DA was a lower value shield from a smaller crit heal then the original/current DA up on the target.
Could I please get some confirmation and/or clarification on the above points.
Thanking you in advance.
Could someone post some Pawn values for a raiding holy priest or some decent statweights rather than the wowhead ones.
This is not a simple question and it does not have a simple answer. You can, if you're really trying, get down to burst HPS and regen, and some other nebulous efficiency values, but you're probably not going to do any better than 3-4 stats which don't neatly line up in some weighting.
I'm trying to figure out where to place my dragon's eye gems as a jewelcrafting holy priest. My current estimation is that yellow slots are the weakest slot and that a [Runed Dragon's Eye] or [Sparkling Dragon's Eye] should go into them. Are there any jewelcrafters out there with advice on what to do with my dragon's eyes?
I'm currently leveling a priest that I'm planning on healing with once I hit endgame. I've been meaning to go disc mainly, since my guild only has holy priests at the moment and I think it seems like a fun and slightly different way to heal. My concern is just that with all the shielding on the tank, won't a disc priest effectively be rage starving a well-geared tank in, say, heroics? I might be completely off, but I just want to make sure I am
I'm currently leveling a priest that I'm planning on healing with once I hit endgame. I've been meaning to go disc mainly, since my guild only has holy priests at the moment and I think it seems like a fun and slightly different way to heal. My concern is just that with all the shielding on the tank, won't a disc priest effectively be rage starving a well-geared tank in, say, heroics? I might be completely off, but I just want to make sure I am
You'll be fine. The only time to be careful with it is at the start of a pull. Shield away, though I'd "save" it for when you need the burst healing unless the tank is that undergeared.
01/14/09, 2:01 PM
Similar Threads
