jerm

Just a quick question, if I'm posting the wrong sort of stuff in the wrong place then please by all means tell me so.

In the original post of the Discipline Compendium, section 5 is regarding stat weightings, sorry to be newb at this but what does this all mean? if anyone could give me a quick run down that'd be appreciated, I'm quite new to the theory crafting game and want to make my priest as optimal as possible.

again, I apologise if this topic is against the "terms" of EJ so to speak

 

bcswen

The stats weightings for throughput are calculated in a spreadsheet based on a predetermined casting rotation.

The weightings for regen are calculated again based on a presumed In 5 Second Rule/Out of 5 Second Rule ratio, because the returns from Intel and Spirit vary widely based on how much you are in the 5 second rule (i.e. gains from replenishment, a bigger mana pool, and shadowfiend are static, whereas spirit/intel based regen is doubled when you are out of the 5 second rule).

The combined weighting assumes that you want a 60/40 split between throughput and regen in your stats. It's important that you gear yourself based on your needs and the particular fight, so do not base your decision exclusively on those weightings.

 

katieqt37

Just wanted to throw this out there, so all the poor prot pallies aren't too discouraged!!! (or you priests with only prot pallies for tanks)

We got our first 10man Vezax hard mode kill on Friday night. Our tank was a Prot pally. Most of us are 25man Ulduar geared with little to no hard mode loot. We also only used 2 healers (couldn't get a 3rd that night....) Me (disc /w improved healing, no intellect trinket, only swapped maybe 4 gems over to int) and a holy pally (he stacks int anyways) had no trouble healing it at all. The rest of our raid consisted of a hunter, shadow priest, frost mage, rogue, fury war (interrupts), enhance shaman, and a blood dk.

Here was our strat: We went through 6 Surge of Darkness's. The pally tank did not kite. The cooldown rotation went as follows: Bubble wall, Pain suppression, holy pally bubbled + hand of sacrafice, bubble wall, pain suppression, bubble wall. The Animous spawned around the 4th cooldown (a bubble wall, the strongest cooldown we had). I solo healed P1 for the most part, in melee range, until the animous spawned. Kept shield up, penance when he dipped to 50% or so health, and I cast maybe 4-5 emergency flash heals, if that. Used inner focus once early so it would be up for P2. The holy pally kept up holy shield and used holy shock to help with big spikes. I finished P1 with about 45% mana, the holy pally with 80%. We had a shadow priest for VE, judgement of light on boss, and healing stream totem with the tank and 3 ranged dps group. When the animous spawned, the holy pally switched to nuking the tank, and I stood in a shadow crash and bubbled everyone once + tossed a PoM. We blood lusted, and when people got below 50% health, I inner focus divine hymned, and the animous was at 5% by the time that wore off. Killed him, our shadow priest suicided in a shadow crash, I stayed ranged and we finished him off. The boss was at maybe 18% when animous died.

We spent about an hour and a half on this Wednesday night with 3 healers (had a resto shaman in place of the DK), and then came back to one shot it on Friday. Most of our wipes were due to suicidal DPS early on or during the animous phase (good game one shot shadow crashes....) Threat was not ever really an issue (our pally is Quite good) So while its obviously not optimal, we really had no trouble killing this with a pally tank.

(Sorry for the wall of text, hope this is of some use to someone)

Edit: Logged off in the spec/gear I used for the fight if anyone was curious. Only difference was I swapped the two purple gems and the green gem for yellows (I never use forethought talisman, but the free hot did some decent healing on this fight, whereas my normal trinket for that slot, eye of the broodmother, doesn't stay stacked reliably)

 

Diali

I have been looking at SimulationCraft. On this page : SampleOutputT8 - simulationcraft - Google Code
the values given for different characteristics are as follows :

Priest T8 13 00 58
HitRating = 2.74
Spell Damage = 1.56
Haste Rating = 1.53
Crit Rating = 1.01
Spirit = 0.39
Intellect = 0.29

According to Shadowpriest.com :
* 1 spellpower = 1 PP
* 1 intellect = 0.21 PP
* 1 spirit = 0.21 PP
* 1 spellcrit = 0.71 PP
* 1 spellhaste = 0.65 PP
* 1 spellhit = 1.31 PP (when not hitcapped)

Thus, when comparing the two following pages, we have very different rankings or “loot priorities” for items. I took rings as an example :

Loot Rank for WotLK

shadowpriest.com • View topic - Best Raiding Gear Available 3.1

The signet of soft lament is number 2 according to Rawr, 5 according to Shadowpriest.com and 14 with the lootrank page taken from SimulationCraft.
The signet of manifested pain is respectively 8th, 3rd and 10th according to the same sources.

In the comments on the SimulationCraft page, some people are as surprised as I am :
If I understand correctly, They are talking about a haste cap here. I'd like to know what approximate value would this haste cap be. The pve shadowpriest thread on the French Wow-Europe forum (yes I'm French - nobody's perfect) advises to try and reach 250 haste on gear if the raid is optimized, and 350 if your raid lacks all the haste buffs (as can be the case in a 10-man raid).

I'd like to know what would be the minimum haste value one should have on gear (with an optimized roster) and the “maximum” (the value which, once reached, would make further points in haste less valuable than other characteristics, that is to say critical strike rating) because I'd like to gear my shadowpriest as efficiently as possible.
After thinking about it a minimum, one could think that a shadowpriest has to stack haste on gear until the Mind Flay gets down to 2,75 seconds of channeling time, but that would be without taking into account brain and connexion latency. The real haste cap could thus be higher (or the channeling time lower) than these 2,75 seconds of Mind Flay to really benefit from haste.
Maybe this has been discussed earlier and somewhere else. If so, I'm deeply sorry but couldn't easily find the information, even though I think this is a very important one and should be discussed more, and should be found on every post treating pve shadowpriests.
I also would like to know if the characteristics values from shadowpriest.com should be considered as the “correct” ones all the time or only after reaching this “haste cap”.

 

dedmonwakeen

The most important thing to remember is that the incremental value of adding Haste is very much dependent upon your current gear level. While the haste curve is not a step-function, it is certainly not smooth either.

Depending upon your point of view, haste is either over-valued or under-valued in some simcraft experiments due to the difference in stat deltas used to calculate the stat weights. In the past couple months a considerable amount of effort was made to "smooth" out the RNG effects in SimulationCraft. This mode is only turned on during scale factor generation. (If it is on you will see a message about generating a "smooth baseline".)

When the smooth RNG packages are enabled, it reduces the variance such that we can reduce the stat deltas. The numbers on shadowpriest.com were calculated with smooth_scale_factors=0 and so use a 250 Haste Rating delta. The numbers on the simulationcraft wiki use smooth_scale_factors=1 (which is now on by default) and so they use a 100 Haste Rating delta.

A value of 100 provides a much more localized value for Haste scaling. I didn't say "better".... I just said "localized". Depending upon how far your gear progression is from BiS one could argue for either number. It just so happens that for T8 BiS, 100 extra Haste Rating provides a considerable dps boost.

When planning your upgrades it is much better to run the sim with your own gear. Of course, I see your name has one of those darn umlauts, so I'm not sure what will happen when you try to use armory=region,realm,name. (The spaces in the realm name can be simply replaced with +.)

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft

 

MisterStabby

I just rolled a priest 3 days ago..hit 65 today, and should be 80 in about a week and a half, I've had my eyes glued to the Priest forums for the past several hours.

After spending about an hour reading through the "Shadowpriest Basics" I've come to the conclusion that most SPs are not in agreement with an "optimal" spec/glyphing....therefore, I've come to the simple questions thread with a simple question;

This is my proposed spec for my SP at 80, is it viable, or is there a lot of "Wasted" space that could/should be allocated elsewhere?Click

 

Nivoglibina

You have hit all the must have talents, and you choose to take the optional talent points in Scream/Silence.

For early 80's play (Heroics, Naxxramas) you could choose to take these points out, toghether with Improved VE, and bring those 5 points into Spirit Tap and Improved Spirit Tap if you encounter mana problems.

 

MisterStabby

Thanks. Will do. The only reason I'd taken those was for the added "Interrupt" effect being added in 3.2 My current guild has been lacking lately in rogues/dks so more interrupts are always appreciated.

 

Tronn

I never tried it, but I can hardly imagine that you can interrupt bosses using Fear, so this should be worthless.

 

Nivoglibina

Scream is a pre-requisite for Silence, which very occasionally can interrupt bosses (HKM; Blindeye the Seer is the one I can think of).

I suggested the option to remove these 3 talents, but if you spend most of your time in heroics, questing or a bit of pvp I would keep them. There's more fun and utility to be had with these 3 than with many other talents in the shadow tree.

 

tedv

I would cut Improved Shadowform before I cut Improved Vampiric Embrace, though I don't think you need to cut either even at low gear levels. If you are running out of mana, chances are that you aren't using your shadow fiend soon enough.

 

MisterStabby

In patch 3.2 They're adding an additional "interrupt" effect to silence, counterspell, and other abilities that formerly did not work on bosses.

 

Nivoglibina

Yes I know that, I was actually defending your chosen spec, responding to the 'fear does not interrupt' remark. It used to be the case that silence did not work on almost all bosses.

Cutting improved shadowform is also an option, and indeed mana issues should be infrequent if you play well. I quaffed a lot of mana potions in Naxxramas but that's because I clip Mind Flay too often. Improved shadowform is handy while /zzz questing, and the OP did not state what the spec at early 80 was going to be used for. In Naxxramas VE only shines at Sapphiron so I chose to give dropping VE as an option.

 

MisterStabby

Ah, I understand. Well, I haven't had a chance to test my "True skill" at SP yet. Thus far It's been pretty basic stuff, but I feel like I understand the class well. I'll play around with some of the other specs a bit, until I find something comfortable that works. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

Crosshairs

I was looking at Rawr and noticed that it says my penance should be above 3k per tic. Looking through my wowlogs World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis I am slightly under 2k per tic.

[20:33:28.926] Crosshairs Penance Duem +1504
[20:33:29.334] Crosshairs Penance Duem +*2347*
[20:33:30.199] Crosshairs Penance Duem +1585
[20:33:45.397] Crosshairs Penance Duem +1498
[20:33:46.207] Crosshairs Penance Duem +*2310*
[20:33:47.002] Crosshairs Penance Duem +1566

When I look around at people's logs they are at the 3k range tic. Anyone have any ideas of why my penance is so low?

 

mygrane

Two ideas: I'd make sure you are using the max rank, and I'd make sure you're not healing a target with a healing reduction effect, such as Mortal Strike.

 

Crosshairs

I think this must be the case. I am going to be pretty embarrassed if this is true.

 

Spacelord

I had a question about the absorption mechanics of power word: shield. It may have been asked/posted before but there are thousands of pages of information here and I couldn't find much with the search function.

Anyway, I was wondering how the amount of absorption on pw:s shield is calculated within the game? I noticed that the base pw:s at level 80 absorbs 2230 damage, my tooltip says 2564 (which is 2230 * 115% - due to imp pw:s it seems), and my actual shield absorbs about 5500.

I was discussing it with a guildie and he mentioned that pw:s gains some absorption from your spell power naturally just like damaging/healing spells. I also have borrowed time which tacks on 40% more of my spell power to my shield.

however I was trying to calculate the amount my shield absorbed and the results did not match testing. in a duel with no other buffs besides shield i absorbed about 5500 damage with 1784 spell power (no inner fire up).

if i add spell power (borrowed time and natural gains) before imp shield's 15% bonus and assume 80% natural gain from spell power, i calculated:

[ 2230 + (80% + 40%)*1784 ] * 115% = ~5026 absorption

so i'm not sure where the calculation is wrong. i'm thinking the inherent gains from spell power might be higher, or the spell power and imp pw:s shield bonus is done in a different order.

anyone know for sure? thanks.

 

Vihermaali

Did you add Twin Disciplines into your calculations? +5% healing done by instant spells? I'm fairly sure those +healing% talents affect PW:S too.

This would result in a 5277 absorb.

After that you add Focused Power (+4% healing) you get 5488. If you used correct coefficiency, which is actually 80,68% (+40% from talents = 120,68%), amount would barely go over 5500.

 

Turrin

As a day one priest healer, I am making the switch to the dark side, and I have a few questions.

Best professions for spriest? I am Tailor/Alchemy, something makes me want to drop alchemy for jewelcrafting, the prismatic gems, which is a perfect segue into..

[Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] or [Ember Skyflare Diamond]?

Regards

 

Xtian

Chaotic Skyflare.

Most of the professions are about equal in raidbuff value.

 

• constantius

Tailoring is the highest dps profession, followed by JC. Alchemy is tied with Enchanting, LWing, BSing and Inscription, so if you don't go JC, just keep Alchemy for the flask bonus. It also saves money!

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

moowalk

What sort of dps improvement can I expect on a single target fight just from the 4 piece bonus? Assume I'm replacing comparable gear so that the only change is the 4 piece.

 

Jariel

Question about PW: S healing reports in WoW Meter Online. Does this tool convert the mitigated damage to Heal? It looks like it does since it reports most of the PW: S Healing as overhealing which would make sense on topped off shielded targets. I also see a seperate entry for the PW: S Glyph heal returns.

Can anybody confirm? Thank you.

 

• constantius

WMO makes a complete stab in the dark as to actual absorbed amounts. It's not terrifically accurate, especially because it can't distinguish (no-one can; it's a fault of the combat logging system) between absorbs from PWS, Sacred Shield, Val'anyr, AMS, AMZ, or anything else that pops up as "Absorb" when it should actually be Resisted or Missed.

What I do is basically assume that if I'm Disc for a fight, and I cast a PWS, it gets absorbed. This is roughly 95% true, and the extra 5% is easily compensated for by not adding an additional figure for Divine Aegis. Then I take the total number of procs of Glyph of PWS (including crits, just total number landed), and multiply by my average shield absorb value (~ 7200,+/-). Add this to your healing total for a roughly accurate (+/-10%) estimate of your healing done.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein