Shadowpriest Theory Craft - 3.2.2 Edition! - Page 12

Akhtal · 01/07/09, 2:16 PM

I'm on the PTR right now and it appears MF now gives 2 stacks of Shadow Weaving.. every time.

You still need to wait for 5/5 SW before casting SWP as it doesn't self update..

Anything else need to be tested? MF still seems a bit buggy for me but I haven't copied addons over yet

Rinuu · 01/07/09, 5:23 PM

Originally Posted by Zhivago

I just read in the patch notes on MMO Champion for 3.0.8 here that SW

will only apply one stack of Shadow Weaving per cast. So what is the beginning rotation now?

I am thinking: VT -> VT -> MB -> SW

-> DP

Two VT spams since your finger is already there.

Why take the extra time to cast VT twice? If you used VT -> DP -> MB -> MF -> MF -> SW:P you should have 5 stacks by the time that's done and not lose any up time % for your spells. If I'm wrong please let me know. But that's my 3.0.8 rotation to open with.

Althor · 01/07/09, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by Akhtal

I'm on the PTR right now and it appears MF now gives 2 stacks of Shadow Weaving.. every time.

You still need to wait for 5/5 SW before casting SWP as it doesn't self update..

Anything else need to be tested? MF still seems a bit buggy for me but I haven't copied addons over yet

I jumped on the PTR again and can confirm that there's hasn't been an actual PTR patch yet, but there have been some hotfixes.

And yes, they transfered the Shadow Weaving stacking bug from SW: Death to Mind Flay.

The Mind Flay damage ticks do seem to be happening at the correct time now rather than being delayed (though the last tick can still happen slightly after the the channeling ends).

The hidden old Shadow Focus bug is still there.

Neither Shadow Focus still doesn't help Blackout or Mind Flay's trigger spell.

Ranks 8 and 9 of Mind Flay still don't have combat log entries for the trigger spell (just the 3 ticks). Ranks 1 to 7 do still have their combat log entries for the trigger spell.

*edit* According to World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Hotfix: Talent Issue the hidden +8% (or +10%) spell hit from the old Shadow Focus has been hotfixed. Dunno if they've hotfixed PTR or not within the last hour.

Shigan · 01/08/09, 6:26 AM

In my opionion : SW: D -> VT -> MB -> DP -> MF (wait till certain buffs are on the boss then cast SW: P)

Rinuu · 01/08/09, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by Shigan

In my opinion : SW: D -> VT -> MB -> DP -> MF (wait till certain buffs are on the boss then cast SW: P)

Depending on the players in your raid, you should have all the buffs up on the boss almost asap? I see posts from a lot of people stating that they wait 10 seconds or so before they cast SW:P. It should take about 10's to get a full stack of SW on the boss. By that time the raid should have the boss with full buffs to help SW:P do it's max damage.

If we are going to go by a 10 to 15 second rule on SW:P. Wouldn't we want to modify the way that we check our % of up time for SW:P? If your boss fight lasted for 300 seconds, we would want to change it to 290 or 285 to help make the SW:P % more accurate. Maybe people are all ready doing this, and maybe they are not.

I did some quick math and noticed that taking 15 seconds off of 300 will only decrease your needed ticks for 100% by 5 ticks. So lets say that you had 77 ticks of SW:P for a 300 second fight.

300/3 = 100
290/3 = 97 ( rounded up from 96.6 )
285/3 = 95

SW:P Ticks 77

77/100 = 77%
77/97 = 79%
77/95 = 81%

So if you took off 15 seconds then your not slacking but you could do a bit better. It's only a 4% difference but that could be important if your trying to hold a raid spot over another DPS or shadow priest.

Frostyx · 01/08/09, 1:05 PM

Read this thread with some interest (have a level 80 shadow priest - was holy from nov 2007 til this expansion, but got bored of it by july - still raided until live change over).

What I have found best with aoe (apart from the build i "borrowed last night" which confirmed dont need threat reduction) if you have a death knight first spell cast on SKULL should always be devouring plague.
To make it look like you are attacking the main target... I usually thought VE, MB and SW:P...
I then either switch to second or third kill and use our main aoe.

Nothing is more annoying to see skull go down whilst using it as the aoe focus (besides by targetting the offtanked target you are also killing skull).

My gear isnt the best (well got better, 4 more upgrades in 25naxx last night...) but boss fights with a lot of (and i mean it) junk gear I was kicking out 2.5k dps, and aoe damage was kicking out about 4k.
As a whole our dps may seem bad, but over the whole raid the only ones who were better was a lock with top notch gear, 1 hunter and mages (oh and a rogue fury warrior who "button 1" spams the thaddeus fight...)

Healybob · 01/08/09, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Worshaka

I'd really like to see some data on this, the best raid gear thread in shadowpriest.com only has the haste enchant listed... is the tailoring enchant worth it?

I currently got begged to spec from holy to shadow becasue our guild has gotten to the point that we only need 2 healers for nax, but need more dps, so im back to shadow.

So to the meat of it. I am currently DPSing in my healing gear plus som rep dps gea till i can get a real dps set built, I am using my healing cloak with ebonweave on it, it does proc off of dps spells just as frequently as it did off of healing spells.

Rinuu · 01/08/09, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Healybob

I currently got begged to spec from holy to shadow becasue our guild has gotten to the point that we only need 2 healers for nax, but need more dps, so im back to shadow.

So to the meat of it. I am currently DPSing in my healing gear plus som rep dps gea till i can get a real dps set built, I am using my healing cloak with ebonweave on it, it does proc off of dps spells just as frequently as it did off of healing spells.

I think when you say "ebonweave" you mean - Darkglow Embroidery. If so then yes it will proc off of your damage spells also. I only say this because the tool tip says "chance to restore 300 mana when you cast a spell." Because it's not stating a harmful spell or damage spell, the only thing that you can be is any spell. Go out to a test dummy or mob if you wish and start casting damage spells. Watch your combat log for the proc. Also if you have any WWS's you should look over them and see if you had any procs. Also, I would say that it would not proc off of DoTs because it says only spell casts.

Tymir · 01/09/09, 2:59 AM

Originally Posted by Minko

Right now this suit, to me, seems haste heavy and lacking in crit. What are your thoughts?

The DPS scaling factors used on the gear rankings on shadowpriest.com are a bit outdated, the latest version of simcraft values crit quite a bit more than it used to. Perhaps utilizing these scaling values would increase your accuracy:

copied and pasted from the latest simcraft version
intellect spirit spell power hit crit haste
0.29 0.28 1.28 1.59 0.83 0.62

Althor · 01/09/09, 7:07 AM

I've checked Mind Flay on the latest PTR build.

First I equipped 0% hit from gear and 0/3 Shadow Focus and 0/3 Misery.
I tested against the level 80 test dummy (so a 4% base miss rate). I saw misses. i.e. the hidden old Shadow Focus buff is correctly removed.

Then,
I equipped 1% hit from gear (well 1.07%).
I specced into 3/3 Shadow Focus (3%). I didn't spec into Misery.
That's 4.07% hit rate.
Again, I tested against the test dummy using a Mind Blast, Mind Flay rotation.

My recount said I cast 1773 Mind Blasts which included 0 misses.
It also recorded 5319 Mind Flay ticks, which included 0 misses.
5319 Mind Flay ticks is exactly 1773 Mind Flay casts.
So there were 0 trigger spell misses.

i.e. The Mind Flay "omg my spell failed for no reason" bug has been fixed.

There's still no combat log entries for the top 2 ranks of the trigger spell but maybe they'll make it into the next PTR build.

(I also saw 0 Blackout Misses so that's fixed too).

I haven't conclusively tested the "delay" bug yet, but the last ticks aren't being clipped at any rate with nochanneling on and my quick eyeball test seems to show me that it's at least better than before.

So yeah, odds are that apart from the combat log bug (and how Mind Flay now applies 2 stacks of Shadow Weaving) that Mind Flay will actually work properly when 3.0.8 goes live.

dedmonwakeen · 01/09/09, 8:09 AM

[quote=Althor;1045693

I haven't conclusively tested the "delay" bug yet, but the last ticks aren't being clipped at any rate with nochanneling on and my quick eyeball test seems to show me that it's at least better than before.

So yeah, odds are that apart from the combat log bug (and how Mind Flay now applies 2 stacks of Shadow Weaving) that Mind Flay will actually work properly when 3.0.8 goes live.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the (as usual) thorough analysis!

Let me know ASAP anything you find on the delay bug...... I'd love to get rid of that ridiculous "channel penalty" in SimulationCraft.

Althor · 01/09/09, 9:13 AM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Thanks for the (as usual) thorough analysis!

Let me know ASAP anything you find on the delay bug...... I'd love to get rid of that ridiculous "channel penalty" in SimulationCraft.

Well even if the delay problem is still there, they fixed dropped ticks. I was using [nochanneling] in my tests and never once saw a single dropped tick in thousands of Mind Flays since they fixed it on the PTR.

Mevros · 01/10/09, 6:01 AM

Is there anyone here who can be bothered with doing the math for Chaotic Skyflare Diamond? 90% of the raiding shadowpriests are using this metagem, but the only calculations I can find are from shadowpriest.com:

shadowpriest.com • View topic - Best Raiding Gear Available (WotLK)

Math of CSD: (Thanks to Mefadin)
But the 3% Increased Critical Damage actually translates to 4.5% extra damage on crits(this isn't different, but is often unclear) and there's a big difference between the amount of crit damage at 70 and the amount at 80. Going by the baseline output file of SimCraft from http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraf ... 80_General, MB/MF(/SW

) make up
60% of damage and are crits 40%(or better) of the time. 4800 DPS * 0.6 * 0.4 * 0.045 = 51.84 DPS ~= 40.34 PP. Even using less optimistic values of 3000 DPS * 0.5 * 0.3 * 0.045 = 20.25 DPS ~= 15.76 PP, which would be slightly less valuable once socket requirements are taken into consideration, but it's unlikely to have 1k int and only pull those numbers.
CSD requires at least two blue gems. To ensure this requirement is satisfied, helm will be calculated assuming the red gems elsewhere are replaced by blue gems (loss of 16.64 PP)

These are based upon false asumptions (4800 average DPS from a shadowpriest during a raid), they're from the beta and the values are outdated (0,61PP for crit). Apart from that, shadowpriest.com is asuming in their ranking of items that Purified Twilight Opal and Misty Forest Emerald are in the game, which is not the case.

No matter what I do, if I try to calculate this stuff myself Ember Skyflare Diamond + 2x Runed Scarlet Ruby always wins compared to Chaotic Skyflare Diamond + 2x Glowing/Royal Twilight Opal. So why are you using CSD?

Bury · 01/10/09, 6:32 AM

Personally, I use [Runed Dragon's Eye]x2 to get around the CSD requirement.

Kuosi · 01/10/09, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bury

Personally, I use [Runed Dragon's Eye]x2 to get around the CSD requirement.

Meta gem requirements and socket bonuses make Jewelcrafting superior to all other professions in terms of boosting your favorable stats.