Wrath of Air and Improved Ret Aura do stack. Wrath of Air is considered a 'major' haste effect (5% haste), while Improved Ret Aura is a 'minor' haste effect (3%). Hence, the maximum amount of spell haste you can gain from raid buffs is 8%.
The new changes probably are a net increase to total damage. Improved devouring plague is a decent dps boost, but we lose the 3 'floater' points we had in our build.
The change from % increase on dots to % crit chance on dots is a wash.
Actually, it depends if it still calculates SWP chance to crit on the initial cast or if it's refreshed when you refresh it...
Somebody will have to try if Inner Focus affects SWP chance to crit, and if so, if it stays that way..
You can also consider spirit tap optional now I guess, even if it's a slight DPS gain. Maybe in some fights with a lot of adds the fear related talents can shine (especially in 10 mans, or if you have to split up in small groups... Or you can pick up Shadow Affinity and imp VE...
One question that remains to be answered is whether the critical damage bonus of dots will be increased to 100%, hence keeping the post 3.1 dot damage in line with current dot damage, because at first glance, the average dot damage post 3.1 seems to be [(1 - crit chance) + (crit chance x 1.5)] x damage = (1 + 0.5 crit chance) x damage.
Yeah that's my concern as well. The crit modifier on dots pre-3.1 treated dots as though they had a chance to crit for double damage, like our main nukes. On the PTR at this point in time that definitely isn't the case. Got a VT crit on a target dummy for 2337, with normal ticks hitting for 1507, so it's the standard 150% crit modifier.
I knew that, hence why I posted it... I'm at school right now so I can't log on the PTRs, but it appears from reading the patch notes Pestilence won't spread DP anymore
Actually, it depends if it still calculates SWP chance to crit on the initial cast or if it's refreshed when you refresh it...
Somebody will have to try if Inner Focus affects SWP chance to crit, and if so, if it stays that way..
You can also consider spirit tap optional now I guess, even if it's a slight DPS gain. Maybe in some fights with a lot of adds the fear related talents can shine (especially in 10 mans, or if you have to split up in small groups... Or you can pick up Shadow Affinity and imp VE...
Spirit tap will probably be standard though.
I still wouldn't considering Spirit Tap optional. The devs have stated that even with the boost to IS5SR regen numbers, the actual amount of mana regen should stay about the same due to the nerf to OO5SR regen. Granted, I tend to not have mana issues with kings, wisdom, and mana spring, but even so on long fights - Kel'Thuzad comes to mind - I can run a bit low. Not full on OOM, just low.
I think you could probably safely drop Spirit Tap with judicious use of Shadow Fiend and Dispersion, but frankly, on any fights over about 6 minutes you're cutting it close. Considering Blizz has said they want mana to be an issue again, I'd rather err on the side of caution going into Ulduar. Especially since there's not really anywhere else to put those 5 points that will increase dps more than IST.
I took some time to look at the numbers for our DoT nerf, and I'm honestly not that worried. There's a post on the Damage Dealing Forums where I put the numbers out. For now I just want to link my Spreadsheet.
The upshot is that without shadow power on DoTs we're looking at something like a -2.3% Damage from Live. With Shadow Power we're looking at around +9.7% from Live. I sincerely doubt we're going to get Shadow Power on our DoTs.
I knew that, hence why I posted it... I'm at school right now so I can't log on the PTRs, but it appears from reading the patch notes Pestilence won't spread DP anymore
Yeah so it would seem. Oh well. At least I won't have to assist off DPS DK's anymore. Still, it's a decent AoE nerf.
The actual numbers may not look too bad at first glance, but the underlying problem with the change to DoT's and crit, is scaling. The current shadowform crit bonus is more or less equivalent to receiving 100% bonus to crit damage vs the 50% bonus on the PTR. The initial boost to damage from the new Devouring Plague may somewhat offset the lost crit bonus damage at current gear levels, but it will have a somewhat significant impact on how well shadowpriests will scale with crit rating on new gear.
It will take some additional math or tweaking to simulationcraft to see what kind of effect this will have on our ability to scale with crit rating, but this seems like a move in the wrong direction. One of the main issues with shadowpriests toward the end of TBC was the lack of scalability with stats other than spellpower, and reducing our ability to scale with crit will become more detrimental to our damage output with future gear upgrades.
Last edited by Tyrlir : 02/24/09 at 7:31 PM.
Reason: Typo
Beyond that, a nerf of 2-3% overall is still a bit unnecessary, given that spriest single target damage wasn't particularly high compared to other hybrid caster DPS. I have a feeling that Blizzard didn't really intend the 3.1 spriest changes to be an overall decrease in damage, but we'll see.
Can someone bring this to attention on the US PTR forums? Posting on the European ones is obviously a complete waste of time as no developers ever read them.
Assuming 100% DoT Crits, here's what the math on the resilience system GC proposes looks like:
D = Damage on cast of DoT without Crits, this number looks like 10,000
R = Resilience Penalty on DoT damage, this number looks like .89 (less than 1!)
1-R = Resilience Penalty on Crit Chance, this number looks like .11 (less than 1!)
C = Crit Chance
P = Resilience Penalty on Critical Damage
We know that P is slightly greater than 1-2*(1-R) = 2R - 1. I simplify and assume they are equal for purposes of neat algebra. In the end, the actual damage will be very close if I substitute, and it will still illustrate my point from above.
Expected Damage of a DoT that can crit at 100%:
ED = D + CD
Expected Damage of a DoT affected by Resilience in the way GC proposes.
ED = RD(1-(C-(1-R)) + PD(C-(1-R)
ED = RD(2-C-R) + 2PD(C+R-1)
ED = 2RD - RDC - R^2D + 2PDC + 2PRD - 2PD
ED = 2RD - RDC - R^2D + 4RDC - 2DC + 4R^2D - 2RD - 4RD + 2D
ED = 3R^2D + 3RDC + 2D - 4RD - 2DC = D(2 + 3R^2 - 4R - 2C)
Last edited by jdgaynor : 02/26/09 at 4:35 AM.
Reason: My original math was terrible.
I'm trying to prove that Resilience hits DoTs more than it does Direct Damage Spells.
Actually, GhostCrawler stated that it's currently intended that dots take a double hit from resilience. The argument to be made for SPs is that shadow priest dots already have "crit" damage, unlike warlocks. So while warlocks are gaining an ability to crit, priests are taking a penalty tax on what they already had, since SPs were already balanced around having critical in dot damage. I'm not so much worried about the PvE implications though, since they are heavily favoring 200% crit.
Overall, the spec gains a 3 point talent buff for devouring plague. I do think that the talent is strong too. On my lately parse, devouring plague made up for 15% of my shadow damage on Malygos. I can assume that periodical damage increases by 15%*15%, and initial damage adds (15%*115%)*15%.
The devouring plague talent boosts our total damage by ~4.84%, for 3 points.
From your new topic, I pictured a shadow priest wearing a little space helmet that had robots vacuuming its retro cool pad.
I think Shadow priests will be in a good place. For PvP they got a much-needed tweak to Psychic Horror, but I won't spoil it here.
For PvE, I think the changes will help their scaling in the long run. I suggested in another thread that we might need to make their Shadow spells crit at 200% in order for the Shadowform change to actually be a buff. But we are fully committed to having the dots crit. The game just works better that way.
The Shadow Ulduar 4 piece set bonus is pretty sweet too.
I'm not sure what is going on with Crypt Fever. Under generous assumptions it is a *very small* damage gain with Imp DP, 100% DoT Crits, and without Crypt Fever (On the order of +0.62%).
If we still get to keep Crypt Fever, then we're looking at something like +10% damage over live. And then there's the supposedly sweet 4 PC Ulduar bonus.
I apologize for asking a question I could likely figure out myself, but I figured I'd get the best answer here.
My latency is typically ~180ms and I'm wondering what my Mind Flay cast time should be raid buffed. Recently I've had it at 2.70s raid buffed and it seemed pretty decent, but likely because I was not yet using nochanneling in my MF macro I sometimes went just past MB coming back off cooldown. Is this me being too slow or should I get a bit more haste?
So it looks like we're getting some DoT protection in the latest PTR build.
15% base mana restored if VT or SW:P are dispelled (3/3 Shadow Affinity)
and a 680 dmg proc if VT is dispelled (base change to VT).
It's no Unstable Affliction, but it's something at least. Depending upon how the damage proc scales, it might even be some form of deterrent.
Almost assuredly it will scale with spellpower, because 680 wouldn't be much of a deterrent. Anyhow the latest changes are aimed strictly at PvP, so it's outside the scope of this thread.
Lightweave Embroidery got a buff: Chance to increase your spell power by 250 for 15 sec when casting a spell.
For 250 sp over 15 seconds, I can't imagine an ICD of less than 90 sec without risking making tailoring the best profession for casters by a significant margin.
I raid primarily on my warrior atm, Nathum on Misha, but I've leveled my Shadow priest now and I'm excited about the changes they've made to priests. I have a question about diminishing returns. In BC any spell power above 1400 was not nearly as valuable as other stats like crit and haste. When I was raiding on my priest in BC 1400 spell power was easily attainable with a flask and normal buffs only, so I went after those stats.
What is a good point to stop gemming for spell power because other stats have become more valuable? ie. At 2000 spell power, crit is more valuable. Thanks for giving me some info.
Spriest name is Drnathum on Misha. Armory is down atm, so no link available.
For 250 sp over 15 seconds, I can't imagine an ICD of less than 90 sec without risking making tailoring the best profession for casters by a significant margin.
In any case, I'm glad I stuck with tailoring =D
Agreed. Considering enchanting, JC, and inscription all provide ~38 spellpower, if the proc chance and internal cd stay consistent to the live lightweave enchant, we'd be looking at an equivalent of 83 spellpower. Somehow I don't see it staying that way.
As per your suggestion, a 90 second internal cd with the same proc chance would make it equivalent to 41 spellpower which would be much more in line with what the others provide.
However, even if it gets nerfed and brought up to par with the other profession-only enchants, it will still be a nice buff for tailors over the current lightweave.
02/22/09, 6:58 PM
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