Only problem with that is I like to open up on the mob as soon as it gets in range. If you get a crit SW:D and the tank has a miss or 2, you can end up tanking pretty quickly. With VT then MB, you've got 3 seconds until your first damage is hitting, usually the hunter has 3x MD shots plus a couple instants from the tank at that point.

Given that you have Glyph of SW:P, and also that you start most fights running to your DPS spot, at that point wouldn't it be more effective to just start your rotation with SW:P and recast it during a 1.5 sec gap?

Has anyone done a workup on how much of a dps increase the Extract of Necromantic Power off Sapphiron is?

Considering that Timbal's remained one of, if not the, premiere trinkets for a shadow priest in TBC, I would think that the Extract would be the WotLK equivalent. I know it benefits from CoE, Shadowform, and the caster's crit chance, but I have no idea how to calculate the values considering all the variables that come into play.

Right now I do MB -> SW:D -> VT -> DP -> SW:P -> MB to open. Usually the opening misdirect from a hunter is more than enough to compensate the tank's threat, on top of his own openers, along with my own run-in time and casting VE while moving in. I feel like starting with MB/SW:D leads to a more natural spell progression, too (until I have to move around at least).

My plan for 3.0.8 was to try and just tack a SW:P at the start while moving in, then recast it at the same time in the above sequence. I figure that will give me 2 SW:P ticks and the twisted faith bonus to the first mind blast. And since I'm casting the first SW:P before any buffs, debuffs, or procs go up, I should be able to overwrite it without having to mindflay or something first.

Does anyone know what the actual stat values are as of today for shadow priests? I have checked numerous gear check websites and every one of them has a different list of the best items for each slot. I use Rawr on my paladin and is fairly accurate however it is way off base compared to Shadowpriest.com and Lootrank.com.

I am trying to get an accurate list of the ten best items for each slot and where they drop from. It is kind of hard to do this with all of these websites conradicting eachother. Does anyone have one website they swear by and know is accurate?

Thank you for the help in advance.

Simulationcraft is an excellent source for dps caster stat weightings.

As 3.0.8 is going live this week and I had the luck to get the [Illustration of the Dragon Soul], I am wondering if it makes sense to open the fight with SW:P and then recast it, as soon as I got the full amount of 10 stacks from the trinket?

Unless I'm mistaken, SW:P scales with all +spell damage buffs you gain/lose. It's just damage modifiers like Shadow Weaving, and +crit buffs that don't take effect until you recast.

Yes, it recalculates spellpower upon being renewed.

If you want to start a fight with a fully stacked trinket, you can cast Levitate to charge it, provided you have the glyph that removes the reagent requirement of course. You'll start with a little less than full mana, but that shouldn't be a big issue.

Thanks for the Info, I wasn't clear about the recalculating on refreshing.

This is correct,if you pre-cast SW:P at the beginning of your cyclle depending on raid make-up your losing up to 20% of your overall SW:P damage.So if your SW:P deals say 20% of your overall raid damage you are losing 6 % of your base damage in a raid.Depending on the fight I ususally go vt,dp,SW:D,mf SW:P by that time full raid debuffs are on the boss so you recieve the full benefit and the fact that you have a 5 sack of shadow weaving from the cast sequence i just listed.

While I do do agree about the shadow weave change,I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that re-casting sw: p while the target is still afflicted with sw: p overwrites and allows the dot to take full debuff effects.The most logical approach would be that you would have to let the dot tick out then re-apply,even then your still missing that 1 gcd so it doesn't even justify sacrificing the damage regardless.

I mean if you can show me a wws or maybe a recount or combat log showing the difference where the dot was say doing (x) amount per tick,re-applied and is now doing (x)+debuff amount per tick I would be inclined to agree with your decision.

amazing how many variations there are for opening rotation. I do mine the way i do now because it works out quite well for the cd's of other spells. after i do vt>dp>mb>SW>SW:P>mf when mf is done mb's cd has only 1sec left on it so you wait and cast mb then mf again then vt is done so you do vt>mb>SW.. and you through in dp when it runs out. Now for 3.0.8 im just going to switch SW:P and mf's spots and the rotation timing will carry the same helping me not miss a beat or be sitting for more than 1-1.5sec and thats for the WHOLE rotation. I dont know how effective it would be to have vt>dp put up later.. dont you want them to start doing damage asap? like has been said to you dont really want to open w/ mb or SW because of if they crit you could infact steal aggro from the tank.. fully raid buffed if mine crit, mb does for 6.5-8k and SW for 4.5-6k. But doesnt always mean you will.. but is the chance it could happen really worth nerfing the group a dps if your not on your toes? Another thing there is absolutely no need to have to cast SW:P twice except on specific boss fights (Grobbulus for one)that cause you to run around thus preventing you from refreshing it, its just a waste of mana and even though being raid buffed and spec'd right mana shouldnt be an issue anyways... you might find some trouble in heroics more so w/o all the extra buffs. Mana effeciency is always important.

And i too agree w/ shadow weave change.. yeah it doesnt benefit anyone else but youll never lose that 10% buff when your target dies like you did before. And as far as raid utility i dont see why you wouldnt want to have a spriest. They are great dps if nothing else.. plus you NEED them in Naxx25(Instructor). I finally got to test out my true dps potential on Patchwerk on sunday and im in the top 5 hovering around 3100dps atm.. and i dont even have close to a full tier set yet.

Much appreciated.

Another quick question regarding the SW:D change and the various opening sequences: has there been any word from blizz about the refreshment of SW:P taking shadow weaving stacks into account?

If they implemented that change, it would neatly avoid the entire issue of which opening is best since we could immediately cast SW:P and not have to worry about losing dps if it updated dynamically like it does with changed in spellpower.

Actually, the discussion is the product of Mind Flay refresh on SW:P not accounting for % based damage increases.

I'm very happy to trade raid utility for personal DPS and think the overall buff/debuff change is good for the game as a whole. Weaving was part of what was making Warlock DPS stupid/hard to balance, too. Dispel mechanics in PvP are pretty stupid right now in all directions, with or without weaving as a trash buff to protect dots.

It definitely works. Here's a Malygos attempt in which I refreshed SW:P when standing in the power sparks and the other spriest didn't know about it (don't laugh at our wipes, please~):
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

You can clearly see my average SW:P is 800 more damage than his and my max is 2000 more damage than his. I did NOT let it tick off, I simply did a MF to refresh the spellpower value (so I wouldn't get "a more powerful spell is already active") then recast SW:P.

As an alternative, spam levitate before the pull until you're up to 10 stacks, drink for 3 seconds and continue as normal.


E: Your wording makes it seem like something I missed is changing in the patch, and if that changes this for any reason, please ignore.

Excellent,thanks for your post I was hoping someone would have the information to clear that up.So your cast sequence went: sw: p (tick1)-(tick2) mf sw: p?Then afterwards your standard rotation?

EDIT:Also patchnotes stated that sw: d only gives one stack of shadow weaving now,which effectively eliminates that ability from any rotation.

What made warlock DPS stupid/hard to balance was ruin/sac. Since shadowbolt spamming has been functionally nerfed, that issue is moot. And if it weren't for the shadow weaving change, whether or not Mind Flay refresh accounted for the damage increase would also be irrelevant.

Another small feature I've noticed is IDS will continue to stack/refresh at 10 on any dot tick. (It'll also continue to stack on Renew ticks, but only if it actually does effective healing) I can't say I really paid attention to this pre-patch so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like to point out the stealthbuff to Greatstaff of the Nexus

It would still be very relevant for any fight with a % multiplier on damage, or any buffs/debuffs that caused % multipliers on damage. Thaddius and Malygos are two you can name off the top of your head, and based on past encounters there will probably be more. If imp. sbolt and weaving were still left they way they were in 2.4 I guarantee warlock damage would either be ridiculously overpowered with them present, or horribly gimp with them not present. Also in 2.4, it was always a raid DPS increase to add a destro warlock until you had 3-4 (100% imp. sbolt uptime). That's pretty stupid/broken in and of itself.

And whether it "worked" or not, using shadow weaving (i.e. 100% RNG bullshit) to protect dots in PvP is a stupid mechanic, too. To be honest, it's probably more advantageous the way it is now, keeping your 10% damage bonus when swapping targets to burst, instead of just having 0-4% bonus damage on the target you're swapping to. It's MB/SW:D that kills, not dots. Dots just put pressure up, and having to constantly cleanse still adds pressure (even if it's less pressure than it was before).

It's definitely true that MB/SW is what kills, but without dots you will never, ever get to the point where you could potentially kill them with MB/SW. And adding pressure by forcing cleanses is only in any way useful if you have a friend with you who can actually hurt someone, since unlike other classes that debuff, you don't actually accomplish anything if your debuffs are removed immediately. Shadow Weaving as dispel protection may have been 100% RNG bullshit but so is every other anti-dispel mechanic in the game. Unstable Affliction is RNG bullshit too, you can dispel every other debuff the lock puts on you and not hit it or you can eat it right away. Winter's Chill is RNG bullshit, you can dispel 5 stacks of it while the mage gleefully shatter combos you. Why should priests be the only ones not to benefit from dispel RNG bullshit?

In the case of your 2.4 discussion you're conflating a problem with imp. shadowbolt with a problem with shadow weaving. Since both of those abilities only affected shadow damage, it was only an increase in raid DPS to add warlocks because the warlocks themselves did crazy damage. Blizzard has since changed a ton of raid debuffs around. They made scorch give a crit increasing debuff. They gave balance druids Earth and Moon. You could easily resolve the problem by changing Imp. Shadowbolt, WITHOUT gimping warlocks in any other respect. In fact, given that it's a limited charge ability with a large effect, it's the much better candidate to receive the "personal buff" treatment. Because they decided to change Shadow Weaving instead, they created two problems instead of fixing one. I guess that's practically a Blizzard tradition by this point.