I'm sitting at 864 resilience and 2544 spellpower with innerfire(using WG SP trinket). I tend to use PvP trinket instead of WG one most of the time when I run RMP so that will put me at 972 resilence and 2433 spellpower with innerfire. I would say around 900 is fine. I just gem 19SP for reds, SP/STA or SP/Spen for blues and resilence for yellow.

Also you only need 105 hit against most class, that's 4% hit. And 158 hit is against Bloodelf, Undead and Draenei, thats 6%. 5% is the hit for melee classes. 130 is spellpen cap.

I currently play both Priest and Rogue, and have 2500+ ratings with a Glad title.

In my opinion there are 2 directions to take with PvP disc - a primarily healing build, and a healing/burst DPS build. But, first and foremost it should be said that you never want Enlightenment or Imp. flash heal. While these 2 talents are good, *everything* in disc is good and the other abilities all overshadow these two. One of the nice things about disc pvp spec is that, unlike other classes and builds, there is a lot of variety. And pretty much with any variation you won't need Enlightenment or Imp. FH as much as the others. Which brings me to the first direction you can build.

1 - Tanky/Healy/Outlast Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This spec is better for either someone who is less comfortable sticking their neck out to DPS, or is playing with a partner that doesn't require as much healing. This isn't a "noob-friendly" spec at all, it's designed for longer, more engaged encounters, and it comes down to personal style. It has every disc talent, except the 2 mentioned above and Reflective shield. The reason for this is that you can do more healing and tanking, so the little reflective damage shouldn't matter since you have other sources of damage that can be controlled and used as precision tools. If you notice in Holy, you build down to Desperate Prayer because this skill is absolutely needed, without question. This is a instant, decently big heal that is the difference between life and death in a pinch. Nothing can replace it. The mana cost is a non issue because if you die the game is over, and mana doesn't need to be saved like it does in a raid. Sure conservation matters in certain matches, but if the game goes long enough that you are OOM, either something went wrong or the other team will be just as OOM as you. Also, part of PVP is finding ways and means of getting in ticks of water wherever you can. To build down to DP you fill out Divine Fury rather than Holy Spec because it's your job in arena to do everything - including that clutch DPS burst, and having a holy fire/smite cast go off quicker means you can get back to healing quicker, and gives the enemy less of a chance to interrupt you. Remember - while your teammate may do leet deeps, its the 10,000 unmitigated holy damage from 30 yards that turns a "hard hit" into a kill.

2 - Smite Spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The differences here are based around you building into Searing Light. First off, the only glyph change is you put Smite in place of Pain Suppression. The reason for this swap is that the other 2 major glyphs provide a unique effect whereas PS glyph can be replaced with better playing/situational awareness - meaning, you use PS before its too late and you're locked down. You can take out Divine Aegis because it's minimal healing, with a duration, that's based on a proc. PvP requires control, and we're looking to free up talent points here. You can take 1 point from Renewed Hope, as the effect will most likely go up anyway with a 50% application rate while putting shields on the whole team. The final 3 points you need can be taken from Silent resolve *or* Absolution. This choice is all personal preference, I go with 3/3 Absolution because I find myself spamming offensive dispel a lot during games, and when it takes 3 MD's to pull off a paladin bubble the mana cost can become a little too much to bear. And, once again, while these talents are both great to have, we need 3 more talent points to get Searing Light. Build into Holy down to DP, then you have 2 points to reach the 15 point tier. These two are mostly filler, I have them in Spell Warding now because of Mage & Warlock burst (/shrug), but come patch 3.2 Inspiration is being changed from "Increases targets armor" to "decreases physical damage recieved" and I'll be putting the 2 filler points here, because of the dominance of melee cleave teams. Then put your last 2 points into Searing Light.
The point of sacrificing healing and some mana to get this is that you can end a game quick. I'll use Priest/Rogue (or similarly Priest/Rogue/Mage) as an example, since it represents the kind of burst this spec is designed for and these are very common teams. The game starts, your teammate opens while you spam dispels on the enemy and do the required healing. Early in the fight you fear, blind, sheep, or otherwise CC and get a person on the other team to use their trinket. At this point, put another form of CC on them and in the 6 or so seconds you have, cast Holy Fire, Smite, Smite, SW. The damage from this is almost impossible to live through, as with the right gear your smites can potentially be hitting for 5k+ each. Sure, this example is elementary and a good team will know how to stop it *the first time*, it will cost them cooldowns to survive and by the 2nd or 3rd time you squeeze in this sequence they won't have anything left to live by. The basic concept is that you turn yourself into a double DPS team. Even without using CC and just launching into this DPS chain you'll put the pressure on the other team to force them to play catch-up on healing & damage, and eventually one of these bursts will win the game. The drawback to this style is that you might get so caught up in it that you let your teammate die, or get so low on health you can't pick them back up without allowing a full recovery from all the damage you just did. So it becomes key to communicate and work well with your partner to set-up a good situation to slack on healing for a few seconds.

It should be obvious by now that I prefer smite spec. In WOTLK the name of the game has become burst, and with the preventative-style healing a disc priest offers combined with large, re-usable damaging spells, you become a force to be reckoned with.

I have having huge problems managing my mana. Currently I am at 870 resil, 1672 sp (without Inner Fire), and 262 regen. I am having a hard time getting a good weapon/offhand/wand. I know my spellpower is very low and I have no idea how to get this up to where it needs to be. I am trying every week to get a weapon from naxx/ulduar but to no avail. I think some of the issue is my teammate's (rogue) resil. I seem to have to use penance a ton. Is there anything I need to be doing differently?

My armory link is here

Nakkor, you logged out in PvE gear and that needs some love. You are missing 2 enchants and 5 gems. The staff of restraint you are using should be more then sufficient for the rating you are at. The wand you are using is not very good but I use a Touch of Horror for my pvp set and those stats aren't that different.
I can't see what trinkets you use but with that low spellpower I guess you use two resilience ones? You can really increase troughput by using Battlemasters+Titan-forged Rune of Audacity.

What you really have to change though is tell your rogue to change his meta or boots enchant. The two runspeed increasements don't stack.

I am not missing any enchants or gems. I do have those trinkets you listed for pvp. I will log out later with my pvp gear on. I really don't seem to waste a lot of mana on myself. I spend a ton on my rogue

I have level 80 dual spec holy / disc, I took some advice from someone on my pvp gear choices and have since received many "pst" as to why I stacked crit on everything. (currently at 26 + %) Is there a crit cap for Disc and should I do haste + crit? I have all the satin pieces plus titan boots and belt knowledge & horde trinket, working on back and neck plus weapon. Im going to be upset if I wasted all my points on pieces I didnt need. My characters name is Frilly on Demon Soul server. Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you

I really like the new Inspiration. I think my spec would look something like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...&version=10192


Now I have a question on people's opinions. With the new change to Imp. Mind Blast giving it a MS effect, what do people think about running a slightly more aggressive build with shadow as the 2nd tree?
I'm considering something like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...&version=10192
This would sacrifice some healing talents from the disc tree in order to grab Imp. MB, MF and Imp. Scream. I think it would play very aggressively and be like the current smite/holy fire build.

It requires shadowform.

good catch.
/cry
I was looking forward to having that kind of utility as Disc.

It's still a sweet ability so I might screw around a bit as Shadow for a while.

While I don't have a glad. title, 2 seasons of Duelist might suffice as "street cred". =)
The spec you listed is very close to what I'm planning, but for a few things I'd like to question you on:

- Inspiration? With the new change, it seems like it's worth taking points out of Borrowed Time (and maybe one out of Divine Aegis) to flesh this out. Divine Aegis doesn't proc THAT often, whereas the reduction in damage from Inspiration lasts through the entire 15 seconds a Rogue is beating on you. What are your thoughts on this?

- 1 point into Martydom is something I hadn't considered. Does it change how often you see Martyrdom proc if you leave it at 50% proc chance? Obviously against Rogues I expect it to proc when it matters, but what about against heavy-hitting 2-hander classes?

- When a DPS boost is needed, I often go for Mind Blast + SW: Death, as it is faster than doesn't require me to sink 5 points into Divine Fury. Is this mostly a 2v2 spec you list? I play primarily 3v3, and the chances I have to do a HF/Smite double-crit with no danger of someone dropping or getting myself counterspelled and having heals locked out seems slim. Games against the popular RMP (no, I don't run that comp) are particularly frenetic and don't allow for long cast-time nuking. Wouldn't additional healing crit or added protection against magic damage better serve a 3v3 priest?

Aside from those, I agree fully with everything else you mentioned.

With Inner Fire glyphed and talented, my priest has about 7700 armor. The old inspiration (+25% armor) was worth about 8% mitigation. I'm not convinced that the new inspiration is worth it at all, especially considering the typical sub-10% crit rates.

As far as Divine Fury for Holy Fire / Smite. Holy Fire does more damage and for much less mana than Mind Blast for the same cast time (with Divine Fury). Holy Fire -> chain Smite does excellent sustained pressure, whereas if you do NOT talent for Divine Fury, you can only meaningfully contribute ~3k damage with Mind Blast -> SW, and then you're forced into long-casting time Holy Fire and very-long-casting-time Smite to try to do sustained pressure.

Furthermore, glyphing Smite (+20% damage with Holy Fire dot up) allows you to put out very good sustained pressure, something you cannot do without Divine Fury.



On a similar note, I've found myself using Greater Heal much more in PvP (mostly in 3v3) via Borrowed Time for mana efficiency compared to two flash heals. I can't justify dropping Divine Fury at all.

Edit: A note to Martyrdom: you don't get 2/2 points for the 100% chance to proc, you get 2/2 for the 20% reduction in interrupts while it's up.

EDIT: The following analysis is incorrect. Inner Fire's armor should have been added after inspiration, not before

Using the formula: DR% = Armor / (Armor + (467.5 * AttackerLevel - 22167.5)) = Armor / (Armor + 15,232.5);

Armor% at 7700 armor: 33.57%
Armor% at 7700*1.25: 38.72%
% reduction in damage taken: 7.74%

Armor% at 12,000 armor: 44.065%
Armor% at 12,000*1.25: 49.6%
% reduction in damage taken: 9.923%

Armor% at 20,000 armor: 56.76%
Armor% at 20,00*1.25: 62.14
% reduction in damage taken: 12.427%

So really....the inspiration change doesn't matter that much at all. New inspiration is a 2-3% buff to mitigation on yourself (with inner fire glyphed/talented), a wash when used on classes like hunters, and a nerf when used on heavy armor classes.


As far as gearing? Here's what I do: Main pieces - Mooncloth (spirit). Offset - Hit (to get up to 6%). Gems - mostly resilience/spellpower. Offhand+Wand: Spell Penetration (to get up to 130).

With only 12%ish chance to crit, talents based on crit are mostly useless to me. Edit: If i had like 20-25% crit, perhaps I would take those talents, though.


Depending on what comp you run for 3v3 (I can't get armory to load right now), Burrowed Time + Divine Fury Greater Heals might be a good option for you. I get off a lot of those in 3v3 (RMP), at least.



Edit: the main difference for inspiration would be when you're fighting warriors with a ton of armor pen. For example, against an opponent with 70% armor penetration (leaving you with 2310 armor), the old inspiration was not worth much:

Armor% at 2,310 armor: 13.16%
Armor% at 2,310*1.25: 15.935
% reduction in damage taken: 3.18%

So in this situation (against an armor pen stacking melee), the new inspiration is a 7% or so buff. But for the most part, it's still more-or-less the same talent as it was before.


Post edited for clarity on my point of comparing new to old inspiration

If you want to apply pressure as Shadow, you can always pick up Veiled Shadows and use your Shadowfiend (and mindflay) for pressure. You would, of course give up Desperate Prayer though. However, keep into consideration Shadow can be resisted more frequently than Holy can.

Well, you should already be spell-pen capped at 130, anyways. Resisted (or missed) fears lose games.

The problem with Mind Flay is basically that it's a terrible spell for a Disc Priest. It doesn't really do much damage, and is wildly inferior to Holy Fire -> Smite (especially glyphed). I tried a Vieled Shadows / Penance spec early in the season, and found it lacking. If you want to play offensive, spec for Searing Light and Glyph Smite. If you want to play outlast, put more points in disc (Mental Agility, Enlightenment, etc). Vieled Shadows / Penance doesn't accomplish either, really.

I'm confused now.
I thought that they changed Inspiration so that it's not longer dependent on armor.
Inspiration
Unless I'm mistaken, a pure 10% reduction in physical damage taken shouldn't take armor into effect. I value this as a must have talent now.

I was comparing the old inspiration to the new inspiration, with the conclusion that it's not nearly the change some people (for example: you) think.

My point was that the only time the new inspiration was meaningfully better than the old inspiration was against armor-pen stacking melee, and that it's certainly not a must-have talent because Priest crit rates (mine is like 12%) are so terribly low that the uptime is not going to be meaningful.

Beyond that, inspiration doesn't help you when you need it most--an opener or a quick swap by a cleave team.

Well....that certainly changes my analysis.

My mistake.

So yes, I suppose that neo-Inspiration is a larger buff than I had thought, though I still doubt it's a "must-have" talent by any means.

For completeness, then: my priest has 2074 armor base (Full Furious minus gloves), 7381 buffed.

At 7381 armor (inner fire): Damage reduction from armor = 32.64%
At 7900 armor (inspiration + inner fire): Damage reduction = 34.15%.

Relative increase in mitigation = 1 - (1-34.15%) / (1-32.64%) = 2.24%

So basically the new inspiration is four-to-five times as effective (on yourself) as the old inspiration.

I have 2 questions.

1. Prayer of Mending will now trigger Divine Aegis on the healed target and not the priest who cast Prayer of Mending.
With this hotfix is it worth putting 3 points into Divine Aegis?

2. With the nerf to penace and the buffs to pom and inspiration do you guys think blizzard wants us to lean towards crit more than spirit?

It's hard to say what they want. The pom change isn't a buff so much as a bug fix, but I digress... On one hand spirit has paled in comparison to mp5 this entire expansion and has been nerfed multiple times, but on the other hand it really isn't possible to pick up all the crit-supporting talents in a pvp spec.

It's funny that we got mp5 on our gear in BC when we reallly wanted spirit, and now that mp5 is better we get spirit. So sad. The problem is that a crit-build, though possible, would leave priests (already the healer most likely to go out of mana by a huge margin) with almost zero regen. I can't see it being worth the risk.

You can - but you give up a shitload of offensive utility. I currently have a very very defensive crit-heavy spec for PvP and it works ok, it means your partners can cheat and wear more PvE gear.

I think this will depend heavily on your bracket and comp. In a 5v5 environment, with so much DPS and focus fire, outcomes are often determined early on. The crit and crit-related talents might save someone from a hard burst from the other team, and mana regen could be pointless if the match is already 5 vs 3 45 seconds in. A 2v2 match may see much less action and longer lengths, making regen important during mana wars.

At least we have the Shadowfiend and the Hymn (if you can finangle the time to channel it). Finding time to sit and drink is still viable, and sometimes key in long drawn-out matches. All of this makes mana regen just a little less useful in the Arena.