PvP Disc Spec Discussion - Page 11

winst · 03/30/09, 7:43 PM

Renewed hope, at least in ulduar, hit everyone in the raid as soon as the priest shielded anyone.

Chirality · 04/03/09, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclohexane

To Repeat what has been said Before Body and Soul has no RNG factor to it. It is a 100% at 2/2 talent points to remove poison from YOURSELF. Also, I think with everything that has been added to Disc With patch 3.1 it is going to be even stronger in Arenas. .

I participated in a little bit of the "focused arena testing" on the PTR (as it turns out, I didn't see that many people queueing), alternating between a Deep Disc and a Deep Holy PvP spec. There was no contest.

As it turns out, though, the biggest problem for Holy is simply mana. You really only have Prayer of Mending, Renew, and Flash Heal. Power Word: Shield if you're in an emergency or as utility (via Body and Soul). But ~900 mana for a few seconds of sprinting is simply too much. Empowered Renew and 7 second Prayer of Mendings combine to be decent self-healing, and (as always) Blessed Resilience is very strong. But once you start looking at healing your teammates, things go downhill, and suddenly you're dumping Flash x3 -> Serendipity'd Greater Heals for well over 2.5k mana, just to keep someone alive.

Discipline? It's a practically-free PW:S followed by a dirt-cheap Penance.

Playing Discipline on the PTR, on the other hand, was better. Mana is still an issue, but only if you're really pressed. Priests will be good tanks, but the difference isn't as amazing as you would think. Glyph of Inner Fire is essentially a band-aid fix to our low survivability, at the cost of a major Glyph (Dispel Magic is what I replaced, I think). Self-penance is amazing, to be sure, but the spirit-based mana-regen change, coupled with Rapture, still hurts.

Bring lots of water, and hope that you get enough peels to drink, I guess.

Divine Hymn, at 2063 mana (if I recall), is stupidly overpowered once-per-fight (with Inner Focus only). It's a very frustrating design. Yes, you can heal everyone for absurd amounts of health, but it just feels awkward. I would love Divine Hymn if its Mana, Healing, and Cooldown were all cut by a factor of 3-4. That said: it's practically a win if you manage to channel two ticks of it against a double-dps team.

By the way: Penance / Vieled Shadows was the build I was using. I forgot how much I missed those Shadow talents: Improved Psychic Scream, Shadow Focus and Mind Flay. Darkness at tier one is now useful, too. The 17 or so points in Shadow are worth giving up Improved Renew, Spell Warding (or Divine Fury), Blessed Recovery, and Desperate Prayer, in my opinion.

Zaq · 04/04/09, 2:03 PM

That's an interesting point actually. I'd totally forgotten about shadow minors as viable, but with the mana changes veiled shadows is a pretty amazing talent. It's a fairly large defensive trade-off though. Would people skip on improved flash on the disc portion? I'm torn on how valuable that will be.

Chirality · 04/06/09, 1:26 AM

Originally Posted by Zaq

That's an interesting point actually. I'd totally forgotten about shadow minors as viable, but with the mana changes veiled shadows is a pretty amazing talent. It's a fairly large defensive trade-off though. Would people skip on improved flash on the disc portion? I'm torn on how valuable that will be.

I plan to skip Improved Flash Heal. Mostly because of Glyph of Penance, though.

I guess you have to stipulate: 2v2 or 3v3? 2v2 I will absolutely drop Improved Flash heal and get Vieled Shadows. 3v3 I'll probably go down Holy again to get Blessed Recovery/Desperate Prayer

Averiel · 04/09/09, 4:49 PM

I was taking a look at priest changes for 3.1, since my 2's partner is a disc priest and I noticed a change to Rapture.

With the current wording on wowhead's calculator, with 3/3 points in Rapture, am I understanding the mechanics properly?

The priest will gain 2.5% of their total mana back when Shield is dispelled or broken. The priest's shielded target will gain 2% total mana...16 energy...etc, when it is cast, with a CD of 12s.

Does this mean basically a priest's shield (with the talents that lower mana cost such as MA and ... slipped my mind...), will be feeding the priest mana, absorb dmg at no cost basically (based off on some bad napkin math), but when it is cast on his partner let's say, it "could" be free, but that would depend on the priest's total mana pool?

I haven't been able to see a discussion on this in the last few recent pages and search didn't come up with anything. If anyone else has looked into this, please let me know if you are seeing something similar.

Mearis · 04/10/09, 4:24 AM

Rapture is bugged to not return mana on yourself when you shield yourself. I have feedbacked/petitioned/wrote on the forum about it but they haven't commented it at all on the European forums. Someone brought it up on the US forums and a blue replied saying they would look into it within 2 hours but I haven't heard anything about it since.

Akaji · 04/13/09, 11:52 AM

As of the Latest PTR build, Rapture does return both the 2% and the 2.5% mana when cast on yourself I'll try to get an SS of it tonight

Mearis · 04/14/09, 6:20 AM

Originally Posted by Akaji

As of the Latest PTR build, Rapture does return both the 2% and the 2.5% mana when cast on yourself I'll try to get an SS of it tonight

amazing change, thanks!

Juli · 04/14/09, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mearis

Rapture is bugged to not return mana on yourself when you shield yourself. I have feedbacked/petitioned/wrote on the forum about it but they haven't commented it at all on the European forums. Someone brought it up on the US forums and a blue replied saying they would look into it within 2 hours but I haven't heard anything about it since.

Just to dispel a bit of myth: I posted about the issue within a couple days of the ability first going up on the PTR and they didn't drop everything to fix it, or even reply on the issue. The thread also got a decent number of replies, iirc. I realize that you may not see as much activity in the EU forums, but the US forums aren't some amazing magical happy land where everyone rides unicorns that shit marshmallows and rainbows and player concerns are always addressed in a timely and efficient manner.

Akaji · 04/16/09, 5:42 PM

With the realms being so unstable took me awhile to get the SS but good new is that this is from live

Which the two mana returns equal the 2% and 2.5% of my max mana

R0B0T · 04/18/09, 6:26 PM

Was curious since BC is disc still the most viable 3 man PVP spec? or if it is not what is the best spec for arenas 3 man?

RiskyBiz · 04/22/09, 12:52 PM

Well, I'm not trying to steal anyone's thread here but I didn't see a new topic warranted for my own personal build, I figured it'd be more appropriate to post it here. With that said:

I've been blowing tons of gold respeccing my build with every little piece of information I get, and I'm tired of it. I've heard the elitistjerks community are the real pros, so I'm going to bring my build to you. This is my PVP Disc spec, I'm using now for BG and will eventually take it to the arenas. I'm going to explain the points spent in areas that I've ran into controversy. Here we go:

The Build: The World of Warcraft Armory

Discipline:

3/3 Silent Resolve: It seems to me that passive dispel protection, even 30%, is a must have when we rely so heavily on our bubbles, buffs, dots and hots.

2/2 Martyrdom: I've been running into a lot of "this talent is useless" from the folks at the wow forums, but after getting into fights with feral druids and rogues, I don't see how this isn't completely needed- otherwise I'm interrupted every time I try to cast anything! :-o

3/3 Absolution: I find myself dispelling and curing as much as I'm healing, so a 15% mana reduction on these spells is crucial for me. Not only this, but coupling this talent with Mental Agility gives me a total of 25% mana reduction.

2/2 Reflective Shields: I've been told this is a dueling talent and nothing more, but this makes up for almost 30% of my damage on the charts after a BG- and with 3.1 this is only 2 talent points so I personally view it as a great talent. Not only this, but the damage can crit and I love seeing a mage take a chunk of damage when they hit me with Pyroblast.

Holy:

5/5 Divine Fury: It seems that the key to a disc priest is the ability to play offensively when needed. A 1.5 second holy fire cast is nothing short of amazing. This is our most powerful offensive spell, and it's needed imo. Not only this, but it actually makes Smite possible in a PVP situation. I love it.

The biggest controversy I've found in my build isn't what I chose, it's what I didn't choose. Here's why:

No DA: My build isn't set up for crit, and it never will be. I plan on stacking resilience and spell power/ not crit.

No Enlightenment: With a severe nerf to spirit, it's just not worth 3 talent points. And I'm no number cruncher, but 6% haste is... well, it's nothing worth mentioning, really. It's a pretty decent talent, but it doesn't stand up to the competition.

No Imp Flash Heal: I don't need the added crit, I'm not specced for crit, and with aspiration + glyph of penance I don't even cast flash heal that often.

Okay guys, tear me a new one. Let's hear it.

Chirality · 04/22/09, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by RiskyBiz

Well, I'm not trying to steal anyone's thread here but I didn't see a new topic warranted for my own personal build, I figured it'd be more appropriate to post it here. With that said:

I've been blowing tons of gold respeccing my build with every little piece of information I get, and I'm tired of it. I've heard the elitistjerks community are the real pros, so I'm going to bring my build to you. This is my PVP Disc spec, I'm using now for BG and will eventually take it to the arenas. I'm going to explain the points spent in areas that I've ran into controversy. Here we go:

The Build: The World of Warcraft Armory

Discipline:

3/3 Silent Resolve: It seems to me that passive dispel protection, even 30%, is a must have when we rely so heavily on our bubbles, buffs, dots and hots.

2/2 Martyrdom: I've been running into a lot of "this talent is useless" from the folks at the wow forums, but after getting into fights with feral druids and rogues, I don't see how this isn't completely needed- otherwise I'm interrupted every time I try to cast anything! :-o

3/3 Absolution: I find myself dispelling and curing as much as I'm healing, so a 15% mana reduction on these spells is crucial for me. Not only this, but coupling this talent with Mental Agility gives me a total of 25% mana reduction.

2/2 Reflective Shields: I've been told this is a dueling talent and nothing more, but this makes up for almost 30% of my damage on the charts after a BG- and with 3.1 this is only 2 talent points so I personally view it as a great talent. Not only this, but the damage can crit and I love seeing a mage take a chunk of damage when they hit me with Pyroblast.

Holy:

5/5 Divine Fury: It seems that the key to a disc priest is the ability to play offensively when needed. A 1.5 second holy fire cast is nothing short of amazing. This is our most powerful offensive spell, and it's needed imo. Not only this, but it actually makes Smite possible in a PVP situation. I love it.

The biggest controversy I've found in my build isn't what I chose, it's what I didn't choose. Here's why:

No DA: My build isn't set up for crit, and it never will be. I plan on stacking resilience and spell power/ not crit.

No Enlightenment: With a severe nerf to spirit, it's just not worth 3 talent points. And I'm no number cruncher, but 6% haste is... well, it's nothing worth mentioning, really. It's a pretty decent talent, but it doesn't stand up to the competition.

No Imp Flash Heal: I don't need the added crit, I'm not specced for crit, and with aspiration + glyph of penance I don't even cast flash heal that often.

Okay guys, tear me a new one. Let's hear it.

I actually agree with most of what you said. Martyrdom can be a very useful talent--but it has the problem of being one of those talents that's "weak when you have it, strong when you don't". I'm making do right now with 1/2 (52/2/17 for Vieled Shadows) and it's tolerable.

Relying on crit is never good as disc--I have 10% crit from gear and will never pick up HolySpecialization. There's no point to putting more than one point in Divine Aegis (more dispel protection /shrug. It shows up often enough with penance to be worth at least that). And I find it very rare to even CAST flash heal now. Penance at 6.4 seconds gets the job done most of the time.

Spellwarding vs Divine Fury vs. ImprovedPsychicScream/Vieled Shadows is really a personal preference, to me. It's also highly dependant on your comp. In S5, for my Priest/Hunter team, (finished at 2200 exactly) I ran Spell Warding because of all the IcyTouch-spamming Shadowfrost DK/Pal teams. I currently am running Penance/VieledShadows for Priest/Mage, but, to be honest, I'm probably going to switch back to 57/14/0 (with BlessedRecovery), 60/11, or maybe even 54/17/0 (with SearingLight). I just didn't have the damage to help out my teammate last night, and Mage/Priest pretty much requires the Priest to do clutch damage at the right times.

In S5, I took absolution every time (running Priest/Hunter). Right now, though, I would probably take Mental Agility first. I just don't have the points for either in my current build. If I was running Priest/Hunter or Priest/Rogue, I would probably keep Penance/VieledShadows as my spec. But it's not really doing it for me in Priest/Mage. Though 3-minute cooldown Shadowfiends (if you know how to dispel and use Shadowcrawl) are a ton of burst and mana.

Your build looks pretty standard to me, overall. Enlightenment (though I'm not big on it) vs. Absolution is pretty much a wash. I would probably take absolution, but it's close. Improved Fortitude is a surprisingly weak talent, as well. It turns out that the 30% buff to Fort is much, much larger than the 4% buff to overall stamina. That said, I've been wtf-raped a few times in 3.1 by double-dps teams with Rogues (have you seen Darkmoon Card: Death + Pyro Rocket yet? It's retarded).

It really depends on your comp, I think, and what you tend to lose to. Losing to double-dps? Get Improved Fort or Blessed Recovery (a surprisingly good talent, actually). Losing longevity games against DK/Healer? Get Absolution. /shrug.

Alarin · 04/28/09, 11:58 AM

I read the first few pages, then skipped to the end for 3.1 ideas. Earlier, (and if I'm repeating anyone, I apologize) these was a question about key bindings. Several people gave suggestions, but in my experience, someone else's key bindings will only mix you up, especially at first. Your keys can be anywhere you want them, as long as you know where to go for what. I've never PvPd heavily, but in raiding, I just knew where everything was from use, and reacted accordingly.

swankholyman · 04/28/09, 1:33 PM

I've seen alot of people state in this thread that a disc priest should never depend on crit, but this statement has made little sense to me, and I've seen noone run numbers to back it up. I pve as shadow so I have alot of pve crit gear that I use to hybrid my pvp gear. Right now Im running 680 resil, 1800 SP, and 23% chance to crit with holy spells (20% with disc and shadow) and thats not including renewed hope. With the changes to rapture recieving 4.5% mana every 15 sec (with 16,000 mana = 720 mana off every CD) mana has been 0 problem for me. Also my rogue lives by Devine Aegis, so he can vanish with bleeds or other effects. With a 37% crit chance on flash heal below 50% health on weakend soul when my rogue gets targeted in 2's, or either dps gets targetted in 3's (I run RMP) I have an emense uptime of damage prevention between PWS and DA. My 3's team went 7-3 last night (well 7-5 but mages connection crashed during first 2 games) so Ide say my spec functions quite well. I'll post it just in case people wanna see http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9733