Taurmenothe

I've been doing 2's with an unholy dk and for the most part I haven't had any mana regen problems. (I'm in deadly/furious gear.) The only comps where i've had to worry about mana is against teams that have another disc priest (imp mana burn against me) or a druid. Between shadowfiend, rapture, and shadowweave cloak procs I've only "needed"(probably could have won without drinking with better conservation) to drink in about 2-3 times in the 25 or so games i've played.

Also on the topic of imp renew against 3 in holy spec, i'm definatly going to go with imp renew. The only losses i've had so far this season are from times where i get locked down by a melee or rogue and get interupted. In 2s especially, in my opinion its important to be able to put as much heals out with out casting as possible.

 

onewing

Ok, this will probably be very, very messy.

I have never equipped a piece of gear with resilience on it before, so you see how noob I am. I play Disc in PvE, and use my PvE spec and gear in WG all the time. Some guildies want me to create a 3v3 team with them (a rogue and DK).

So obviously I'll be starting out with very little resilience and using a copious amount of spellpower gear. After reading up a bit, I thought I'd wing it a bit on a build idea. I bring it to you to tell my why I'm an idiot.

52/19/0

Obviously this would not be any kind of standard build, and I may be better off with a standard build, but this is my reasoning:

I don't think anyone has any problems with my first two tiers, but tier 3, the lack of Inner Focus probably stands out a lot. From what I have gathered about Arena, the matches don't last long, and so the benefit is 1 free heal with a big potential to crit, once per fight. It is obviously good for a 1 point talent, but Disc is a pretty tight build on talents, so I elected to skip it. I imagine that one of the next three points will tell me exactly why this is a bone-headed idea so that I can amend my ways.

Tier 4 I took absolution because I cannot possibly imagine not spending a significant amount of time spamming dispels. Just doing TotC convinces me of that. I did not take improved Mana Burn. I think this comp is going to have more to do with damage and CC than mana durations, so I skipped it.

Tier 5 I skipped enlightenment. I'd really like the haste, but its three points I don't have to spend.

Tier 6 shows another glaring omission: Power Infusion. If I had another caster in my comp, I'd absolutely find a way to put this talent in. Since I will only be able to use it on myself, I find the utility to be more lacking.

Tier 7 gets interesting. . . I skipped Rapture because I'm not certain the mana return on a 12 second cooldown is quite worth the three points, but I really wanted to take it because I'm so used to getting that little bump. I took renewed hope since I will be casting PW:S so often. I took Aspiration even without taking PI because the cooldown reduction fro PS and Penance is so important (especially penance).

Tier 8 I took DA, which I know that some disagree with. But it is so easy to jack up crit values, and that is a significant bubble. So I am officially talenting and gearing for crit at this point. I understand to a certain extent the arguments against RNG reliance in PvP, but it does seem consistent enough to expect around 30% crit chance when geared and buffed (even in this comp).

Filled the rest of Disc. Filled Tier 1 in Holy a) for the crit chance from Holy Spec b) because I think renew has added value in PvP (healing while unable to cast) and c) Healing Focus is pretty much a given. Spell Warding, Desperate Prayer and Inspiration I don't think require explanation. I did toy with the idea of taking points out of Improved Renew to take Improved Healing since I don't have much in the way of mana longevity talents (skipping Meditation, Inner Focus, Enlightenment).

The idea here is quick casting spells that don't need much haste to be effectively pulled off that will keep everyone up enough to burn things down with the high dps that DKs and Rogues can burst out while maintaining the flexibility to pop mass dispels out. Maintain PW:S, PoM, and Renew on friendlies, cast Penance on cooldown (unless somehow it isn't needed) and rely on FH in pinches (I don't think it is reasonable to think I can consistently pull off GHs without harassment/interruption). Spend as much time dispelling and fearing as I can.

Ok, c'mon jerks. Don't let me down. Tear it apart. I learn by getting beaten.

 

moowalk

The biggest thing when playing in a comp like that isn't your spec. Your team mates need to understand that you will die if melee is left on you for more than a few seconds. This is true whether you have 100 resilience or 1000. Rogues and dks have great peels for you. They need to use them.

On to your spec...

Inner focus is used 90% of the time in conjunction with divine hymn. If you team mates are getting nuked (and they should be, if they're peeling), run around a pillar and pop your IF+DH macro. DH ignores LoS and is pretty amazing if used correctly.

No meditation? I haven't run any numbers, but it seems like it's a must for mana regen.

Learn to use PI on yourself. Even if you only pop it as soon as you engage for dispel spam it will be worth it.

Renew isn't great. Improved renew is terrible. That's just an opinion

 

Zaq

Rapture, PI and Meditation are all pretty much mandatory pvp disc talents. DA is much much less good in pvp than it is in pve, and the same is true of holy spec. While the new inspiration is a bit better (I believe we had a discussion on this earlier in the thread), it's not all the much better, and imo is skippable.

Moowalk is right though and the biggest part of your success will be how well you and your teammates keep melee trains off of you.

"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali

 

onewing

Ok, so after some arena play over the last two days, we wound up with 875 rating (starting from 0, of course). I guess that is actually quite a bit better than I should have expected with absolutely no prior experience. I did go with the build exactly as posted above.

Re-linked for reference

First some general observation - Enemies hate priests, and I hate enemies. Took quite a few matches to figure out how to stay alive for more than just a couple of seconds when being trained and then to find ways to just not get trained. I don't know if my partners are not particularly good at pealing melee off of me, or if I'm not being good at putting them in a position to or what, but sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Any team with two melee DPS gets really really hairy.

For the most part, matches ended really, really quickly. The only times I was in danger of running out of mana was generally in matches where I pushed a lot of heals early while we got a hard-earned kill, and when I went oom we were well in control of the fight and I had ample opportunity to get my shadowfiend out and/or take five seconds or so to regen (need to learn to sit and drink in that situation). I also need to get Hymn of Hope in a convenient place on my bar, as just a tick or two of that would be helpful in one or two situations, making general mana regen more unnecessary. Of course, this observation of short fights may be a symptom of the early season/low ratings bracket and may change in the future.

That being said, in reworking my talents, I have not seen any real need to dump a lot of talent points into mana regen. My existing mana pool is generally enough and my team's survival seems to have very very little to do with my mana resources.

DA - I think it still has some viability in PvP, but I think with every talent point NEEDING to count and the overall lack of crit on gear compared to Disc PvE gear, I'm leaning towards agreeing with the masses, so my next respec will not include DA.

I do see some benefit to PI, and to putting talent points into haste in general. Many times I was cursing my GCD and will now be gearing more for haste when possible.

I'm still not 100% certain Where exactly I'll find a great, regular use for Inner Focus, but I'll put a point in there to occasionally use on a penance. I never am able to sit still long enough for a divine Hymn for it to be worth while to try to get off.

I'm still standing by Renew and standing by putting points into improving it. Instant casts are way too important for me and it seems very effective to me.

That being said, attempting to cast even a flash heal is little more than a desperation move that rarely works out to my advantage, because if I need to cast it, I'm most likely already humped. Same for Binding Heal, which I need to get into the habit of trying to cast more. I am hoping that working towards more haste will improve this situation. Until that is proven by experience, I plan to sparingly put points into improving it.

All that being said, here is what I've come up with for my rebuild:

New test build

In Tier one I'm adding Twin Disciplines. The five percent increase on PW:S, Renew and PoM should make up for the crits/DA, for the most part. Tier three I added IF.

Tier six I added Enlightenment for the haste primarily, but the spirit certainly can't hurt. I don't know that I've heard anything really passionate for or against the talent.

Tier seven added PI, and removed Improved Flash Heal until I get to a point where I can rely on FH with a high enough haste. Tier eight I have only one point in Rapture, again because mana hasn't been a big issue yet, but I had a point where this seemed the best place for it. Tier nine I removed DA for previously stated reasons and I am keeping Grace.

In Holy I removed the points from Holy Specialization as the crit just is not enough of a benefit, especially in short matches where the population of total casts is so small that the standard deviation really does make it a game of chance as to if you get the benefit of those talent points or not.

I'm guessing that the more accepted build would be to remove the points from TD and fill out Meditation and Rapture, and I may end up doing this if mana proves a problem as my rating improves or if I change to a fives team where I imagine the mana will be more important.

Sorry for getting so long-winded, but two other questions -

RMP just completely and totally WTFPwned us twice today. WTF, Over? I realize its a very, very strong comp, and I'm thinking that maybe due to the season reset we just ran against a team or two that really knew what they were doing with it. Any thoughts?

And damn if I didn't run into a comp with two disc priests and a mage that we just could not put down, though in my head it seems like it shouldn't be a problem, really. This is the one comp we ran up against where I thought having a significant amount more mana regen would have been helpful, as I was dispelling constantly while healing and we just couldn't get anyone down, so the fight did drag on a bit.

 

Krakkle

I've been doing 2s with a MS warrior this past week. I came up with some crazy ass build and feel free to laugh at it (The World of Warcraft Armory), I do all the time, but it seems to do ok. I've been looking at a few of the linked talent builds and have a few questions:
Some don't have Imp Mana Burn, isn't that like, key to arena? Every team we've gone against that has a priest usually has it.
The majority also don't have PI. I find PI comes in handy when 1. you're low on mana or 2. you have to burn a healer's mana fast.
I never noticed that they changed reflective shield so that it only works on the priest. Is it pointless to get now or does it help at all against rogues/warriors/locks? I also didn't see they changed Inspiration, it's not useless anymore haha.
Since, in most of the builds, Meditation isn't included, are there any tips on conserving mana? We've run into a couple of drain teams (like feral druid/holy paladin) where they would outlast my mana pool (going after my DPS instead of me) and then we'd be screwed. I never really put points into Absolution though.
I'll try one of the other builds tonight and see how it goes .

Edit: On my PvP cloak I have a haste enchantment. To help my mana problems should I replace that with the chance on cast to restore mana embroidery? I forgot all about that.

 

Rej

In 2v2, your spec has to be tailored to your partner's class and spec. With an MS warrior, your spec is likely to be completely different from someone who runs with a mage, or a rogue.

- Twin Disciplines is nice, but not enough of a boost for the point cost. There are better talents to invest in.
- Enlightenment isn't a great PvP talent, spirit isn't useful enough to us and haste, while nice, is of marginal benefit in our PvP gearing.
- Reflective Shield can account for large amounts of damage in 2v2, particularly if your partner is a warrior (not the ideal burn target) and you know you're going to be the focus for much of the time. How well your partner can peel melee off you can change the usefulness.
- Imp. Flash Heal is also a lot worse than you think - in 2v2 your control of burst output will be centered around how well your partner can protect you, your instant casts/penance, and your ability to mitigate damage through mobility, kiting, etc.
- Many 2v2 priests also take DF to assist in timed bursts of damage. Again, depends on your class composition. With warriors, pushing a target into execute range can be a really big boost.
- Imp. Manaburn is the same - if your team relies on coordinated burst + CC, you won't need manaburns. If you're an outlast team, then you'll need it.
- Imp. Renew is mostly an efficiency talent, and not one of the better ones. It won't aid against CC/burst strings, and it isn't necessary for moving through the Holy tiers.
- Rapture, Meditation, and PI are all extemely important for any sort of longevity and should be taken.

 

Skullbash

Most of the priests I know (myself included), use the Spell Penetration to Cloak enchant if they are non-tailor and the Lightweave if they are a tailor. The spell penetration will assist in your ability to land CC and damage on certain targets where resistance is an issue and the added spellpower from the Lightweave assists with healing and damage output both also.

It will also depend largely on playstyle and team composition, I very rarely run out of mana unless I am under pressure from mana burns/drains. If you are hurting for mana try replacing your Meta gem with Insightful Earthsiege Diamond, also getting macro set up to dispel your shadowfiend so you get maximum returns, and working in Hymn of Hope even if its just for the buff mana will help.

 

alayire

I've started a 2v2 with a unholy dk friend and we've had some progress this week. I admit i'm not extremely good geared and lack both weapon and wand, but there will be little i can do to fix this for now.

Anyways the reason i'm writing here is warrior teams. Every time we face warriors it's like a default loss, unless he's afk or something. Almost all warrior teams we've encountered were warr/druid, but we've had warr/shaman too. I'm at 900 resilience now with deadly/furious excluding weapons and i find myself struggling in keeping myself up while my dk partner can't pressure his druid healer. His peals seem to just expose me to more hurting since they will eventually charge me back with ease and i eventually just succumb to damage or run out of mana.

I honestly spend the entire match healing myself and trying to kite him but to no avail especially in open arenas. It's not just healing myself .. i'm literally spamming myself to barely stay alive so i have no time to help my partner with the other healer and this is with druids that just run and heal. We've had a druid/warr team that absolutely destroyed us with cyclone/cyclone/roots on dk, double focus on me folowed by a stomp, i died with PS on me before the dk had any real chance to do anything.

I run without Reflective Shield, 3/3 DA and 1/2 Grace with PWS glyph, IF glyph and PS glyph. I'm thinking i really should put 2/2 Grace but the thing is with rogues or mages (and seeing we get 4 or so rogue/mage for every 10 matches) i'm really trying to not cast pennance at all since it simply gets me killed and seeing I almoust never get to cast Flash Heal i'll probably see it up very little. But i'm wondering about Reflective Shield. I haven't specced it mainly because i figured damage means more rage for the warr hence even more pressure on me.

So if anyone have any pointers .. please share them.

 

Zaq

A non-fail warrior will kill you, and there's very little you alone can do about it. That said, your DK partner should be able to peel far more effectively than you're making it seem like they do. Desecrated ground is one of the most underrated pvp talent in the game probably, it's incredibly powerful.

You have to pull the warrior around pillars and force the druid to get close enough to fear to have any real shot, especially if your dk can't swap and put out enough pressure to really kill someone. That said, as a priest druid+tunneling plate is bad news, and on RoV is even worse.

"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali

 

Iluminati

vs Warrior/X as unholy/Priest

For you, the priest:
1. I don't think Reflective shield gives rage. Even if it does, the rage gain is negligible - you really wont be rage starving him anyway. The damage adds up very quickly and is a nice boost in most 2v2 matchups. I would recommend it. Keep shield up as much as possible.
2. POM bounce is very strong.
3. Your DK needs to deathgrip bladestorms and pet stun on intercepts. He should also be spamming chains of ice when necessary.
4. Use penance every cooldown.
5. IMO, your dk needs to be on the warrior for ~most~ of the match. Spam dispels on the warrior. Keep up Devouring Plague and SW:P when you think you are getting close to a kill and be prepare for a Holy Fire/Smite/SWD for the last 1%.
5. Kite around pillars so that you can get a fear on the druid (if you aren't getting fears on the druid, you cannot win).
6. If the druid is getting CC happen your DK should be using AMS, pet stun, strangulate, etc. to shut him down. If the druid is spamming CC, that means you need to be spam dispelling hots off of his warrior. A pestilence swap to a druid with no hots is very strong pressure as well.
7. If bladestorm comes and you don't have deathgrip ready STOP MOVING and just spam heals on yourself. Running won't do anything.

 

Rej

A Warrior is going to kill you no matter what unless you receive considerable help from your DK. Your job in the match is to avoid the Warrior as best you can while harrassing their healer with manaburns and fears. At the very start of the match, make sure your DK gets on him first, before the Warrior can catch you and Hamstring you. If he switches to you, have the DK pull him back and let you get away out of LOS.

The DK should be attacking the Warrior to keep him off your back and pressure their healer into healing (instead of purging, manaburning, CCing, etc). Since the Warrior will be following you, try to pull him out of line of sight of his healer, either forcing him to retreat back to his healer due to punishment from the DK, or force the healer to waste time running around trying to stay in LOS of his Warrior. A well-timed Strangulate and Fear combined with this can really force the Warrior to go defensive. Gnaw, and Chains can peel the Warrior off you if you're unable to do so and must have the DK peel him off. Save DG for Bladestorm and Intercept/Charge switches made to you.

 

alayire

First off thank you for your replies.

Now my biggest concern is to find the points to relocate into Reflective Shield and Grace. This is my current talent choice. My current thoughts so far are to remove either 3 points from Inspiration or from Mental Agility. I'm more inclined to free the points from Mental Agility but i have no idea how much that will affect my mana since I haven't yet played without it so far (I'm disc PvE too). I've seen priests spec out of Improved Power Word: Fortitude but my stamina is quite low for me to be comfortable with that or either Martyrdom or Healing Focus but i'm not too happy about loosing Interrupt reduction either and removing points from Healing Focus doesn't help me since my points in Holy are needed for reaching Desperate Prayer.

One last question about warriors. Doesn't casting Penance open me to an Unrelenting Assault Overpower or is the effect almost negligible considering shields? I must admit at first I avoided casting penance because of pummel but after some contemplation I figured they'd be mostly sitting in Battle Stance .. heh silly me.

 

Zaq

Yes, Penance will get you whacked with an Unrelenting Assault double ms. Tons of fun that.

Depending on how high your rating is you may find that that's not the case. Back peddling all-stars are generally much less on top of that sort of thing, and isn't Overpower at least on the GCD?

"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali

 

The Not So Evil

Overpower is on GCD, but you can risk getting Overpowered back to back (Buff lasts 9 seconds with a 6 second cooldown, and fully talented Overpower has 1s cooldown.). I've seen MS-Overpower-Overpower-Bladestorm several times. Second Overpower hits because I took the chance to get off 1 cast time spell after first Overpower. I have also seen MS-Overpower-Overpower-Overpower (dodged autoattack after second overpower) and then another MS. Only advice I have against this is Glyph of Inner Fire.

Rawr - Coder of HolyPriest (Healer) and ShadowPriest (DPS) Modules.
Get Your Rawr 2.2.20!

 

Rej

Early on when your gear isn't quite as good, you'll need to focus on personal survival. Teams can assess your level of gear just by taking a glance at your health pool and visible equipment. Talents like Imp. Fort, Martyrdom, Healing Focus are all important for keeping yourself alive, so you shouldn't drop them until you're decked out in good PvP gear.

If you're never having mana issues, then no reason not to drop Mental Agility (though you need mana efficiency at higher levels of the Arena). Another option is to consider dropping Silent Resolve (purge protection is useful only if you have trouble vs other priests and shamans, Warriors tend to group with Holy Paladins and Druids). Do keep in mind that Priest-Rogue is another popular comp.

 

Angël

Hello. My Rogue team mate and I are struggling to progress in 2v2 arenas and seem to be stuck at 1200 rating or so.
We seem to struggle against burst damage in particular where my partner gets nuked while I'm being crowd controlled. Either that or I die in a silence from DK, Mage or Warlock playing with another DPS while my rogue is stunned, sheeped or feared. Obviously when my partner has a bad opener and somehow gets out of stealth before attacking, it's an uphill struggle, but normally we can get off a sap ok. We seem to do ok vs mirror teams or paladin / shaman healer combos, but druids are a big pain in the %&! where I just can't mana burn for LOS issues and I find myself getting chain cycloned. I try and play aggressive where possible, but it's not always possible if we're getting nuked!

Tips / strategies against the following combos would be much appreciated (if I'm not asking too much)

Mage / Rogue (polymorph, counterspell, deep freeze, blind combos)
Hunter / Druid (rogue vs hunter = fail)
DK / Druid (Rogue can't do much dmg to DK but can't get to druid to DPS him)
Warlock / Druid (usually a loooong fight but if we're ever exposed out in the open, we lose)
Enhancement Shammy / Ret Paladin (how to survive the wolves in flat arenas!?)

Generally speaking we sap and dispel the healer and open on the DPS.
Thanks in advance.

Angël

 

Rej

Mage / Rogue:
Difficult comp to survive if they outgear you. Your Rogue has to open on their Rogue, or it's over, hopefully you can flush the Rogue with HN spam at the right time. LOS the mage as much as possible, and focus all your CC on the mage (fears, blind, sap, etc). Very early in the fight, help nuke the Rogue.

With a Druid healing the opposing team, who you start on will depend on the DPS. For anything that has their damage impacted by a Rogue sticking to them (casters, Hunters, other Rogues), I'd sap the Druid and start on the DPS, then work the Druid with Fears and Manaburns. Pre-purge them and watch for Innervate. Otherwise, it might be worthwhile to sap the DPS and go all-out on the Druid, making full use of the stun-lock. A PI'ed nuke barrage combined with purges on the Druid's HoTs afterwards can bring a kill, or force out all his cooldowns.

 

Iluminati

Short version: Versus druids your most powerful weapon is dispel. Keep Faerie Fire/Insect Swarm/Moonfire off you and your partner, keep hots and buffs off of them. Line of Sight enemy CC. Kill enemy pets when possible. Drink as much as possible. Against double dps teams your rogue MUST peel - stun, gouge, sap, blind, kick.

Long Version: Sent you a PM.

 

ashlei22

Hi guys this is my first post im fairly new to the pvp scene i was wandering about gemming, I understand some priests gem Sp, ressilience Stamina, ressillience, or pure ressillience is it important to have a nice balance between them or just stack 1 type. Also with inner fire i have about 2k Sp does crit play a big part on the healing aspect?. Im in a 3v3 team atm and its obvious they all go for me first thing survivabilty wise would be logical to maybee gem more stamina but then id be dropping Sp to me i feel i aint healing enough any ideas

Thanks

 

Chirality

Basically gem all Resil until you get to about 1000, then you can start putting on spellpower.

 

Bubbletrouble

So in the past week I've brought my priest from level 65 to 80, much of the time spent spamming battlegrounds, absolutely raring to go in 80 pvp. The only problem is, I just can't decide on my spec!

I'll be doing 2v2 with an arms warrior and 3v3 Arms/Ele/Disc.

Any suggestions on what talents I really DO need and what talents I can easily afford to skip for this set up?

 

Altirias

Sorry to bump an ol' topic back up, but I'm quite confused about the spirit vs mp5 topic for pvp disc priest.

I've made my own little calcultations with regen formula in the Combat ratings at level 80 thread, and eventually found out that mp5 provides more OO5SR and I5SR regen that spirit. Even with enlightment, and various amounts of int / spirit.

However, I am seeing every top priest on the arenajunkies ladder to be wearing full spirit pvp gear, including necks & back that are available with mp5.

Am I missing something ? Should I stick to spirit like everyone else seems to do or shall I follow what my calculations show and go for the mp5 neck / cape ? (I'll get the hit somewhere else)

 

Rej

If you are looking to stack regen, then go for the mp5 cloak/neck. I don't know why other priests stack Spirit, but it could be a habit from the days when certain mechanics (like Innervate, or basic regen) worked differently.

 

Iluminati

They are getting the spirit set pieces because crit is much worse.

As for why they are getting the spirit off pieces, I can't say. If you want regen, you get the Mp5 pieces.