I use Dispel, Renew, and PW:S glyphs. I will consider replacing Dispel in 3.08 with flash heal (bonus for also matching disc PvE glyphs!) or maybe psychic scream.
I prefer the renew glyph over the flash heal glyph. Although mana hasn't ever been an issue, it may be due to the teams I generally run.
quick edit: Does anyone know if they fixed improved pw:s in 3.0.8? I didn't see it mentioned in the patch notes, which irritated me. Also, did they change reflective shield to only proc off shields on the priest?
I prefer the renew glyph over the flash heal glyph. Although mana hasn't ever been an issue, it may be due to the teams I generally run.
quick edit: Does anyone know if they fixed improved pw:s in 3.0.8? I didn't see it mentioned in the patch notes, which irritated me. Also, did they change reflective shield to only proc off shields on the priest?
I've found mana to be a huge issue against other healer/dps comps, so I value the flash heal glyph very much.
Also Imp PW:S was never only affecting the base absorption of the spell, at least as far as my tests indicated. Similarly, the talent is currently functioning as it should be.
I've found mana to be a huge issue against other healer/dps comps, so I value the flash heal glyph very much.
Also Imp PW:S was never only affecting the base absorption of the spell, at least as far as my tests indicated. Similarly, the talent is currently functioning as it should be.
I hardly ever find myself using flash heal with 8s cd on penance, using pw:s+pom+renew between.
Renew glyph just seems to offer bigger bang for the glyph slot, but then again that is a mather of playstyle aswel.
I was searching for some good priests in armory to find a suitable build for me. What I noticed is that mostly all of them used this build. My questions are now:
1. 1/3 reflective shield? Wouldnt it make more sense to spend this point in absolution? I really dont understand this - is it just to get into the higher tiers?
2. Same with imp. divine spirit. I never had the feeling that my heals are too weak, but Im oom very fast, especially against other priest teams.
I was searching for some good priests in armory to find a suitable build for me. What I noticed is that mostly all of them used this build. My questions are now:
1. 1/3 reflective shield? Wouldnt it make more sense to spend this point in absolution? I really dont understand this - is it just to get into the higher tiers?
2. Same with imp. divine spirit. I never had the feeling that my heals are too weak, but Im oom very fast, especially against other priest teams.
Seen any other priest than Hydra use that? I haven't atleast.
Considering how much dispels and instants cast per game I find that spec rly wierd as it will run you dry extremely fast.
The reason for putting 1 point into reflective shield is, that the reflection is treated as a magic attack and therefore destroys grounding totems.
Probably there are other reasons, but that`s the one, coming up my mind.
Yes, I found more priests who specced at least 1/3 reflective shield. Some of the priest spent the 2 points from imp divine spirit (Hydras spec) in metal agility. Why not 3 points in metal agility/absolution, but none in reflective shield?Ok, I understand that reflective shield can be useful if you get focused a lot (which will happen in 2v2 and 3v3 bracket) but if you consider that talent as important, you could spend 3 points there. I really dont get the point.
edit: I was too slow, thanks for your answer Kali.
I hardly ever find myself using flash heal with 8s cd on penance, using pw:s+pom+renew between.
Renew glyph just seems to offer bigger bang for the glyph slot, but then again that is a mather of playstyle aswel.
I find myself having to use it a decent amount in between penance cooldowns, even when I'm not the one being focused (obviously, since penance isn't self-usable :p). Very often I find that instants are nowhere near enough to keep my partner up, even when I'm popping cooldowns (pain suppression, pi on myself) and the other team is not ccing me. If I'm able to survive (or keep my partner up) during one of these high-burst periods, I'm greatful for the mana I've saved.
As far as the reflective shield discussion goes, I've put 1 point in it in the past (BC) for grounding totem/pushback, so I can only imagine that this would be the same motivation behind doing it now. I respec at least 10 times a week on average for pve and different brackets, so I've tried all sorts of slight variants on specs - however I generally pick up 3/3 reflective shield for 2s, but skip it for other brackets.
As you said, I also would absolutely never go FW/BR in any bracket other than 2s (nor would I spec it in certain comps, such as priest/balance or priest/ret). That is, under ideal circumstances... I did about 30 games of 3s as this spec with a rogue wearing <50 resilience and a destro warlock in <400 simply because we weren't going to play for more than an hour or so, and despite saying "guys this spec is going to be terrible in 3s", they didn't care much because they figured our warlock would get gibbed in 2 seconds either way (which ended up not really being an overstatement).
I think FW/BR is a really good "starter" arena spec, which is to say, while you're building up your resilience gear. I'm spec'd that right now, as I have under 800 resilience. However, Blessed Reslience gets worse as you get more resilience gear, or to be more accurate, while under the effects of Blessed Resilience, your resilience stats are worthless.
I think once I get over 900 resilience or so I will probably be using a more conventional deep disc pvp spec (as I have to pick up a lot of wasted talents in holy). I still don't think I would ever get penance for 2v2, as the lack of self-casting severely limits it's utility in 2v2. I also usually partner with Ret, so there is little value to Power Infusion.
Pennance is incredibly potent for partner healing, (AM mechanics are ftw if used). And self PI can function as both a mana saver and an offensive tool depending on your situation. Both are very strong.
"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali
There is a ton of good advice in here for 2s and 3s, but not much for 5s that I can find, though I may have missed some (search function can't search for 5v5, too short :\). There's the obvious basics of properly using cooldowns, drinking when you can, kiting, los'ing, etc. but as for a spec I'm stumped. Is your typical disc spec still effective in 5s? Or are you too vulnerable to being "one shot," making deep holy better?
I am just starting to get into PvP and have very little first hand experience. I am doing as much reading as I can so I can prepare myself, but I feel like maybe being so used to a PvE setting is clouding my judgement when it comes to PvP. I was hoping someone could provide a little insight for me regarding the following:
With Rapture working correctly now, I have no trouble with mana regen (In PvE). I have little to no use for spirit, and have been stacking crit and spellpower instead. I realize in PvP I will be using abilities that I don't use much in PvE, which are not affected by Rapture (dispel/abolish/mana burn). Will these abilities be such a drain on my mana pool that I should look into getting the Mooncloth PvP gear over the Satin set? Is spirit that valuable, even for Disc? Almost every armory profile I check has the Mooncloth gear, but I really don't see myself needing spirit with Rapture being so great.
I suppose I should note that I will probably be playing in the 2v2 and possibly 3v3 brackets.
Mana will become an issue for you, all our spells cost so much, and to be effective in 2's you'll have to provide support offensively. Crit isn't all that good for priests in a pvp setting (our crit chance goes to shit and so anything that requires a crit to be effective is so rare as to be nigh useless). The main reason to get the satin pieces would be to double up on the resilience if you're a bit low. Faster PWS are very worthwhile, and you'll need all the regen you can find, which is why all the Mooncloth Sets.
"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali
I did not realize how important it would be for me to play an offensive role, but it makes sense. I can see why people stress getting Divine Fury.
As far as crit rating plummeting, does it have to? That's exactly why I was thinking about choosing satin over mooncloth. Certainly my crit would not be as high as it is in my PvE gear, but it wouldn't have to take such a huge hit, and therefore keep crit-based talents from being so useless.
I'm not sure I follow then you say "The main reason to get the satin pieces would be to double up on the resilience". As far as I can see, both sets have the same amount of resilience. The satin pieces also have the same set bonus for faster PW:S.
I also see that you are specced for PvE healing right now, and you are geared like a holy priest. You have a lot of spirit and fairly low crit. Have you tried ignoring spirit and relying on Rapture for mana returns? The only time I drop below 75% mana in a 25-man is on Sapphiron.
I don't mean to imply that you don't know what you're talking about. I would just like to get some info from someone who has played without any reliance upon spirit.
I think what Zaq meant with "double up on the resilience" was that the majority of priests opt to maximize resilience instead of lesser duration of weakened soul.
The 2-piece set bonus stacks between the Mooncloth and Satin sets, so if you're wearing say two pieces of Satin and three Mooncloth pieces you'll get the 50 resilience set bonus twice.
I lose roughly 13% crit from pve->pvp, and I have 2 of the satin pieces. The problem is you're down 5 from talents and a bunch more from gear, and the only real bonus you get from crit is DA. But with a very low crit rate DA's are going to be rare, and your spell power is lower so the absorbs are less. On the other hand you really do need as much mana as you can find. Any team with a hunter puts a serous strain on your mana, and even if you're not focused it can be a lot of work to keep your partner(s) alive through wounding and the like.
It's a trade-off, but not relying on crit can also free up a talent point or 2 from DA.
My question is, do people think points in Improved Healing (manacost on penance etc) is worth it?
Last edited by Zaq : 02/02/09 at 1:46 PM.
Reason: Slow reply
"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali
Furobaz - Thanks for the clarification. I did not realize the sets behaved that way.
Zaq - That makes sense. I guess I will try using more traditional gear with spirit on it, and see how it works out.
As for Imp. Healing, I wouldn't think it's worth it. I imagine people probably Fheal more than Gheal because time is so critical, and Penance is already *so* efficient that 15% doesn't seem like it would matter.
I've gone back and forth on how I feel about Improved Healing. Greater Heal just costs [i]so much[i/] mana, and is the only "big" heal we have for ourselves. I find mana to be a huge issue - it seems as though in any fight against competent opponents in which I do not get gibbed, we lose due to mana. It is likely that Improved Healing isn't going to have enough of an impact to win games on a regular basis, but I currently have it because I feel like the talents I'm giving up in disc in order to get it are less likely to win games.
I've gone back and forth on how I feel about Improved Healing. Greater Heal just costs [i]so much[i/] mana, and is the only "big" heal we have for ourselves. I find mana to be a huge issue - it seems as though in any fight against competent opponents in which I do not get gibbed, we lose due to mana. It is likely that Improved Healing isn't going to have enough of an impact to win games on a regular basis, but I currently have it because I feel like the talents I'm giving up in disc in order to get it are less likely to win games.
I am of two minds about this Gourd:
If you are getting focused, you will never ever use greater heal on yourself, and you probably won't be able to use flash heal.
If you are not getting focused, a glyph'd renew + an inner focus'd greater heal will heal you to full.
I find that given the huge amount of rogues that will target me almost always, I mostly heal with only instants and penance - I'd rather max mental agility than improved healing for mana issues.
I think this also heavily depends on what team make ups you play - if you play PMR, you might not always end up the target, so going with improved healing + flash heal glyph makes sense. For 2s I think renew glyph + maxed mental agility is better.
I've pretty much given up on my 3v3 team (Death Knight / Mage / Priest), because a DK and a Mage simply cannot keep me protected well enough--the main issues, of course, are Rogues (Overkill is the most poorly thought-through talent in the game) and Hunters (Viper Sting is broken against Priests).
Even when my teammates try to just baby-sit me, it doesn't really work. Sure, we'll win more games than we lose, but it's simply not a fun team anymore. Without a poison cleanse, and any meaningful way to escape pressure, I feel more like a drag on the team than anything...and I have pretty good gear, too. It's depressing to play my paladin (with half the gear my priest has, and with which I have one tenth the experience playing) on the same team and EASILY double our success....and worse, have more fun doing it.
So basically my question is this--what 3v3 teams work anymore? Or, more specifically, what 3v3 teams without a rogue work? Should I just say 'screw it' and go double-healer / hunter like I did to great success in s4?
I don't intend this post to be a sort of "QQ", but does anyone else feel like Priests are falling hard right now, in terms of arena viability? Maybe I'm just getting unlucky with queues and only getting Rogues, Hunters, and Shaman (hi hard-counters)...but I honestly feel like Priests are now the worst of the four healing classes in Arena, and the meteoric rise of Hunters has come almost completely at the expense of Priests.
01/20/09, 5:23 AM
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